Thirdrail7
Engineer
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
- Messages
- 4,542
This may be off the main idea of this thread but if the sleepers are on the rear, it is not uncommon for the attendants to allow coach passengers access to the rail fan window if you're quiet.
I can't answer for the other trains, but on the AutoTrain, the coach cars were always in the rear, northbound, and in the front Southbound.This may be off the main idea of this thread but if the sleepers are on the rear, it is not uncommon for the attendants to allow coach passengers access to the rail fan window if you're quiet.
Whether the coaches or sleepers are on the rear or front is irrelevant on the Auto Pain because in either case, the auto carriers bring up the rear.I can't answer for the other trains, but on the AutoTrain, the coach cars were always in the rear, northbound, and in the front Southbound.
i do hope you're using hyperbole.Over my dead body should a coach rider be allowed to invade the confines of a sleeper car. It's almost unconstitutional.
Oh, you're dead. You are dead!Hmm, now what do folk think of me as a coach passenger sleeping on the floor of the lounge car overnight?
True.Whether the coaches or sleepers are on the rear or front is irrelevant on the Auto Pain because in either case, the auto carriers bring up the rear.
Their presence would seem to render the rail fan window useless.
Maybe I was in a combative mood yesterday, and I do now understand that the rule of no coach passengers in sleepers is a genuine Amtrak rule.
The strict "no way can you get into your husbands room with a just coach ticket" tone surprised me, as I could not see why a Conductor could not allow it in this case.
Consider the "rules are rules" folks to have won this argument and educated me, a "why is this rule so important" person, to have lost his argument.
Hmm, now what do folk think of me as a coach passenger sleeping on the floor of the lounge car overnight?
Ed.
Gosh, you must have had very different SCA's than I have, only one or two ever "worked hard" in my opinion...It's also an extra burden for the SCAs. They work hard enough.
How is it a discount? Two booked persons in a roomette would pay the same total fares as one booked person and a coach seat passenger, and the coach seat passenger would not get any meals?I think the people who paid in full for a sleeper ticket would complain loudly that coach people are able to use that service "at a discount,"
No doubt your statistical sample size is larger than mine, so I am happy to defer to your judgment on this issue.Gosh, you must have had very different SCA's than I have, only one or two ever "worked hard" in my opinion...
Gosh, you must have had very different SCA's than I have, only one or two ever "worked hard" in my opinion...
How is it a discount? Two booked persons in a roomette would pay the same total fares as one booked person and a coach seat passenger, and the coach seat passenger would not get any meals?
I am only suggesting that if you met someone you knew in the lounge, and could offer them a berth, with the Conductors permission, it should not be such a major no-no.
To avoid repeating the same stuff, I propose to leave it there, unless prodded into action again.
I'm not so sure that the total fare for two roomette persons is the same as one roomette person + 1 coach person in a roomette. If that is true, then I think something is definitely wrong with Amtrak's cost accounting model. Intuitively, a sleeper person costs Amtrak more than a coach person. Those costs include SCA pay, additional costs for linens, shower usage, additional wear & tear on the accommodation itself (especially the toilets in a viewliner II), any "general freebies" offered sleeper passengers and, of course, the meals. Honestly, I don't see how one could enforce denying those "coach" pax. a sleeper meal, as there are a number of ways around it. By hook or by crook, they'll get it, or the Service staff will look really bad attempting to enforce the restriction. I wouldn't think it worth the bad PR to try to enforce it. It's human nature.How is it a discount? Two booked persons in a roomette would pay the same total fares as one booked person and a coach seat passenger, and the coach seat passenger would not get any meals?
Over my dead body should a coach rider be allowed to invade the confines of a sleeper car. It's almost unconstitutional.
I think all of this is secondary to the real problem on board the trains. If you want coach passengers shacking up with the sleeping car passengers, go for it. If Caravan wants to pass out on the lounge car overnight, we'll step right over him.Hmm, now what do folk think of me as a coach passenger sleeping on the floor of the lounge car overnight?
Ed.
You are incorrect. Sleeper pricing is the accommodation charge for the room + the “rail fare” of each person occupying it. Accounting-wise, the accommodation charge includes the cost of meals and amenities and such, while the rail fare is just supposed to represent the cost of the travel itself.I'm not so sure that the total fare for two roomette persons is the same as one roomette person + 1 coach person in a roomette. If that is true, then I think something is definitely wrong with Amtrak's cost accounting model.
So, the "accommodation charge" is based on a '"double occupancy" standard (similar to hotels)? In that case, then it wouldn't cost Amtrak any more for the additional occupancy in sleeper. I would wonder, though, why then is it necessary to have an "open sleeper" ticket if the coach passenger already paid the coach fare for their seat, and the accomdation charge is based on double occupancy of each unit?You are incorrect. Sleeper pricing is the accommodation charge for the room + the “rail fare” of each person occupying it. Accounting-wise, the accommodation charge includes the cost of meals and amenities and such, while the rail fare is just supposed to represent the cost of the travel itself.
Well...This is a tough call for me, but I fall on the side of not letting coach passengers into the sleeper section. What tips the scale for me is that it is easy for a sleeper passenger to visit a coach passenger in the lounge. So there just isn't a need for the coach passenger to enter into the sleeper section.
Well, if the passenger is using the coach ticket on a full train Amtrak has lost the opportunity to sell that seat to another (high bucket) coach passenger. In which case, the opportunity cost of using an open sleeper ticket more than offsets the cost of providing the comped meals to the second passenger.So, the "accommodation charge" is based on a '"double occupancy" standard (similar to hotels)? In that case, then it wouldn't cost Amtrak any more for the additional occupancy in sleeper. I would wonder, though, why then is it necessary to have an "open sleeper" ticket if the coach passenger already paid the coach fare for their seat, and the accomdation charge is based on double occupancy of each unit?
Essentially, yes.So, the "accommodation charge" is based on a '"double occupancy" standard (similar to hotels)?
Because the crew shouldn’t have to figure out which ticketed coach passenger is with which sleeper passenger, and what the capacity situation is in each room (you don’t want to have a coach passenger who would have otherwise had to pay for an additional room, receive the perks of sleeper travel at no extra cost). It just gets complicated, and I don’t think it’s worth it considering it really isn’t difficult at all for a person to just get an open sleeper ticket instead of a coach ticket.In that case, then it wouldn't cost Amtrak any more for the additional occupancy in sleeper. I would wonder, though, why then is it necessary to have an "open sleeper" ticket if the coach passenger already paid the coach fare for their seat, and the accomdation charge is based on double occupancy of each unit?
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