Change on the horizon

[battalion51]

This past Saturday I made a trip up to WPK from FTL on P098, and returned on P091. I picked up several pieces of information on my journey. First I recieved a copy of the CSX General Bulletin for the Florida Business Unit, which shows changes made to track, signals, or procedures. Because of this I will be releasing an updated copy of the AMT 91 Worksheet within the next week or so. Let me know if you would like a copy. I also recieved a portion of the P091 Manifest, which showed all cars and locomotives on the train throughout the journey. Of note in the consist was E-60 608 used from NYP-PHL, and then P-42's 128 (off JAX) and 97. The RoadRailers were NOT picked up at Philly, rather Wilmington, whether this is the norm I do not know. One thing I did notice about P-42 97 was that it was in Phase IV, while this is amazing in and of itself, the numberboard was that of a Phase V. So it is my opinon that 97 was originally in III, then V, and now IV, and possibly a sign of things to come.

Two very interesting rumors were also had by me (both come from different Conductors). Word has it that all Amfleet II Coaches will be placed into Concept 2000 (Blue) by December, I have already confirmed that some cars that were in Original Equipment llast month, are now in Concept 2000. On a related note, it is said that the Lounges will also recieve their facelift, whether they will stay with the city theme is unknown.

The other rumor is a bit major. The word is that at the April schedule change, P001 and P002 will be annulled PERMANENTLY. This is due to the constant late arrivals and financial drag created by the service. Recently due to VERY late arrivals P001 has gone out with a Heritage Baggage, Sightseer Lounge, and three coaches, or a 24 axle train. Sanford shops had to scrap the cars together, but were unable to sacrifice any of the AT sleepers or diners.

So it looks like changes are coming, some good some not so.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

So, I guess I'll have to ask for "Lesson 1" in "The Chief's Learn Your Amtrak Course." What do the "P" numbers such as "P098" P091" P001" and P002" refer to?

 

[Viewliner]

"P" is for Passenger (as in Passenger Train). Amtrak Watcher you are welcome to join our forum. Too bad about the Sunset Limited, if its true, apparantly "better late than never" doesn't seem to apply. As for Phase V I say good bye and good ridance, while I'm used to it I prefer III and IV over it. Its good to hear that the coaches and lounges (can't stand the smoke) are supposed (i.e if thats true) to get the Concept 2000 (Sorry Amfleet ). I wonder if Gunn wants to abandon the Three Sheets in the wind, I miss the pointless arrow. At the rate we're going, maybe we'll wind up with new Viewliners :lol: (Hey, it pays to dream).

 

[Viewliner]

In fact Gunn does prefer the Pointless Arrow. Just look here thanks to the free Copy of Rail Travel News that I recieved which linked me to the picture. Now I'm happy, I liked Gunn before, but now really like him.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Yes, I like Gunn to----but is is so sad---so very sad---about the Sunset Limited. Just hope it doesn't really happen. There is so much promise to that route. I just wish it were daily and went all the way to Miami as it once did. I do not think it had all those lateness problems years ago when it was first extended east of New Orleans. Are Gunn's hands tied with Sunset punctualtity performance? Is there nothing which can be done? I realize now it costs Amtrak more passengers than it can every possibly gain....

The route has a decent history. At one time, under Amtrak, there was even a through sleeper from Boston via the Crescent to LA. The Sunset existed many years before Amtrak,not sure how many....I think it was an old heavyweight train years ago and was streamlined sometime in the 40's. Historically it was just a NOP to LA run.

 

[Viewliner]

Yes, I like Gunn to----but is is so sad---so very sad---about the Sunset Limited. Just hope it doesn't really happen. There is so much promise to that route. I just wish it were daily and went all the way to Miami as it once did. I do not think it had all those lateness problems years ago when it was first extended east of New Orleans. Are Gunn's hands tied with Sunset punctualtity performance? Is there nothing which can be done? I realize now it costs Amtrak more passengers than it can every possibly gain....
The route has a decent history. At one time, under Amtrak, there was even a through sleeper from Boston via the Crescent to LA. The Sunset existed many years before Amtrak,not sure how many....I think it was an old heavyweight train years ago and was streamlined sometime in the 40's. Historically it was just a NOP to LA run.

Yes, I agree the loss of the Sunset would be a tragedy, as would any route. If anything it would help as you said to have it go to Miami, as it used to, as a daily train. Its the same thing with the Cardinal (formerly the James Whitcomb Riley). It would help if these trains ran daily. We need to start with getting more funding, fixing equipment, buy new (Viewliners, then Superliners). And potentially hope to expand the system. Its about time we get a state of the art Amtrak.

 

[Viewliner]

I like this quote

Gunn has other symbols he doesn't like. He insisted on having his official portrait made with a lapel pin of the old Amtrak logo, commonly called the "pointless arrow." The new logo is hard to describe. It looks like a series of wavy lines or maybe a seashell run over by a train. Some Amtrak old-timers have taken to calling it "the flying breast implant."

Click here for that source

 

[Steve4031]

Are the cutting the entire Sunset Limited route, or the part from New Orleans to Orlando (Sanford)?

 

[Amfleet]

The RoadRailers were NOT picked up at Philly, rather Wilmington, whether this is the norm I do not know.

That does not make sense??? Wilmington is way to small of a station to hold roadrailers. There are only 3 tracks plus the special equipment to put the roadrailers on the road is in Philadelphia.

One thing I did notice about P-42 97 was that it was in Phase IV, while this is amazing in and of itself, the numberboard was that of a Phase V.

Since Gunn has been in office I didn't think he was repainting anythin but rebuilds or refurbished equipment.

Two very interesting rumors were also had by me (both come from different Conductors). Word has it that all Amfleet II Coaches will be placed into Concept 2000 (Blue) by December, I have already confirmed that some cars that were in Original Equipment llast month, are now in Concept 2000. On a related note, it is said that the Lounges will also recieve their facelift, whether they will stay with the city theme is unknown.

That would be nice. I think passengers would get a better impression of the train with refurbishments. I know this was one of Gunn's major objectives. Does any one know if the Heritage Diner rebuilds will continue?

The other rumor is a bit major. The word is that at the April schedule change, P001 and P002 will be annulled PERMANENTLY.

That's to bad. The train did have an opportunity. I think it would make more sense to have a Miam-New Orleans train and a seperate New Orleans-Los Angeles train. However, more equipment would be needed. If anything, keep the Orlando-New Orleans section.

Sanford shops had to scrap the cars together, but were unable to sacrifice any of the AT sleepers or diners.

The sleepers just tipped over can't they be resalvaged? The coaches and one of the AT lounges seemed to recieve the must damage as the all got tangled up in an accordian.

 

[Allen Dee]

The route has a decent history. At one time, under Amtrak, there was even a through sleeper from Boston via the Crescent to LA. The Sunset existed many years before Amtrak,not sure how many....I think it was an old heavyweight train years ago and was streamlined sometime in the 40's. Historically it was just a NOP to LA run.

The Sunset Limited used to run all the way to San Francisco, many years ago. I cannot remember just when it was truncated to LA.

If the Sunset is eliminated, we can thank UP's deliberate dispatching "errors". They tried the same stunt on Metrolink's LA-Riverside line and lost.

UP operates a massive commuter operation for Metra in the Chicago area. I have often wondered if they pull the same stunts there.

The LA-Santa Barbara-San Luis Obispo portion of the Pacific Surfliner route operates largely on UP trackage with very few delays; but there is very little freight traffic on this line.

 

[Viewliner]

The route has a decent history.  At one time, under Amtrak, there was even a through sleeper from Boston via the Crescent to LA. The Sunset existed many years before Amtrak,not sure how many....I think it was an old heavyweight train years ago and  was streamlined sometime in the 40's. Historically it was just a NOP to LA run.

The Sunset Limited used to run all the way to San Francisco, many years ago. I cannot remember just when it was truncated to LA.

If the Sunset is eliminated, we can thank UP's deliberate dispatching "errors". They tried the same stunt on Metrolink's LA-Riverside line and lost.

UP operates a massive commuter operation for Metra in the Chicago area. I have often wondered if they pull the same stunts there.

The LA-Santa Barbara-San Luis Obispo portion of the Pacific Surfliner route operates largely on UP trackage with very few delays; but there is very little freight traffic on this line.

Something has to be done to make the freight railroads, give us priority, either by incentive, or force. We railfans, rail travelers, and taxpayers (not me yet) should not lose our trains because some jerk at a freight railroad like UP doesn't like Amtrak.

 

[Amfleet]

Passenger trains are required priority and yes companies like UP hat Amtrak don't. I think this should be enforced and mabey a fine should be put on the freight companie for making unecessary delays.

 

[Viewliner]

Passenger trains are required priority and yes companies like UP hat Amtrak don't. I think this should be enforced and mabey a fine should be put on the freight companie for making unecessary delays.

I agree, maybe we could have something like a threat of investigation or something. These delays are preventable for the most part. Imagine the Acela if a freight company like UP owned the tracks, and you thought it was slow before.

 

[Allen Dee]

Passenger trains are required priority and yes companies like UP hat Amtrak don't. I think this should be enforced and mabey a fine should be put on the freight companie for making unecessary delays.

I agree, maybe we could have something like a threat of investigation or something. These delays are preventable for the most part. Imagine the Acela if a freight company like UP owned the tracks, and you thought it was slow before.

The only Amtrak train that is chronically late through Santa Barbara is the southbound Coast Starlight, and it has always been that way, even when it was operated by SP.

 

[Amfleet]

CSX is good about dispatching but they're constantly doing track repairs, there are broken singnals, or one of their trains breaks down.

 

[JongSuk]

I'm going to miss the amfleets with red interiors. If would been neat if they refurbished some cars with brand new red design.

 

[Viewliner]

The orange and red is "Very 70's" besides this will improve the cleanliness and comfort of the cars. Amfleet is right CSX isn't bad at dispatching as much as track repairs. But they're not perfect either, like when I took the Silver Star in April, I could hear how we were stuck behind a slow moving freight between Richmond and Alexandria on my Radio Scanner (Thank Goodness for those contraptions ). I hear BNSF is one of the better companies to deal with, am I wrong?

 

[Amfleet]

Red is not the worst color. I think mabey instead of blue the seats Amtrak could apply a maroon/redish color with the same pattern. This would give the cars a uniquness. However, the orange walls have to go.

 

[JongSuk]

How could this improve the cleanliness and comfort of the cars? I don't exactly mean the orginal red and orange style . Just a brand new red design.

 

[Amfleet]

In the Concept 2000 program the cars get a whole new interior with cream colored walls, new curtains, new seats, and redeigned restrooms. The Lounge gets the new walls and restrooms plus an enclosed smoking lounge and new tables. I agree that a new red scheme could look nice.

 

[Catalan Talgo]

It is unfortunate if the Sunset Limited is on its way out, but it does present some possibilities to make a better go of it in the south/southwest.

First: A Los Angeles - Phoenix train. You could even have two trains a day, outbound from either end in the morning and return in the evening. Adds Phoenix back to the system and allows for connections to San Diego and Northern California.

Second: Put in a New Orleans - El Paso train via the current route and a New Orleans to Dallas train via Houston. Make this second train connect with the Texas Eagle in Fort Worth. Run the Texas Eagle out to El Paso. Change the Heartland Flyer to run down to San Antonio. Time them all to connect at Ft. Worth. There's a nice new station, use it.

Third: Not sure about east of New Orleans. A New Orleans to Miami or Orlando train makes sense.

All of these trains will operate independently and should have better on-time performance and can be timed to better serve the local market.

This of course leads to the Fourth and most important part:

Extend the Texas Eagle from El Paso to Los Angeles via Phoenix.

Make all connections at Ft. Worth. This will get rid of the middle of the night connection in San Antonio. Local service still provided in Texas on the Sunset route. Local traffic should be preserved with the above trains, preventing some of the cascading timekeeping nightmares that currently exist.

Other than UP never allowing it, does anyone have any suggestions or critiques? Sure is more enjoyable to do this than to talk about service cuts.

 

[Viewliner]

The red scheme be an interesing thing to screw around with. The Concept 2000 Lounges, are much more enjoyable to sit in, without the smoke I could spend a long time in there. Maybe they think that the Blue will seem more like calm environment. The repaired seats, not the color allows for more comfort. Plus in many Concept 2000 cars they have the LED boards, except for certain cars like Tampa Club (I think).

 

[Amfleet]

Plus in many Concept 2000 cars they have the LED boards, except for certain cars like Tampa Club (I think).

I've noticed that in some photos too. I've also seen photos of coaches that all that seemed to be replaced were the seats, carpet, and curtains. The rest of the car appeared grungy. Also if the Lounge rebuilds continue, add some color. This all grey thing is out of hand. How about some dark green seats with greenish window curtains, and nicely cream colored walls (comparable to an Auto Train Lounge).

 

[Viewliner]

Plus in many Concept 2000 cars they have the LED boards, except for certain cars like Tampa Club (I think).

I've noticed that in some photos too. I've also seen photos of coaches that all that seemed to be replaced were the seats, carpet, and curtains. The rest of the car appeared grungy. Also if the Lounge rebuilds continue, add some color. This all grey thing is out of hand. How about some dark green seats with greenish window curtains, and nicely cream colored walls (comparable to an Auto Train Lounge).

Why not something red, or blue, or even green like the Temoinsa Rebuilds? I agree some of these cars need a little more color. B)

 

[AlanB]

The RoadRailers were NOT picked up at Philly, rather Wilmington, whether this is the norm I do not know.

That does not make sense??? Wilmington is way to small of a station to hold roadrailers. There are only 3 tracks plus the special equipment to put the roadrailers on the road is in Philadelphia.

Amfleet,

While I agree that Wilmington does seem an unusual place to add the RR's, it is technically possible to do so. Like you said there are three tracks at that station and Amtrak typically only uses two of the tracks, the ones that hit the high level platform. SEPTA does use the third track with the low level platform, but they typically only send a two-car train to Wilmington.

So Amtrak could have parked some freight cars at the other end of the platform to wait for the train. Next, Bear is only a mile or so up the tracks from Wilmington. So sending a switcher and a crew down to Wilmington is an easy matter. In fact I watched a switcher bring down a special consist to Wilmington this past Saturday for the Delaware transportation fest.

It was quite an unusual consist. The Amtrak switcher was at the head, followed by a working steam engine with coal tender, a restored coach, a restored caboose, two restored diesels from the Reading RR. I think that they were F units, but I'm not very good at identifying engines. I actually got a really cool picture of an Acela Express power car right next to the steam engine, talk about a generation gap.

So the bottom line here is that it certainly could have been done, although I would agree that it's highly unusual.

Sanford shops had to scrap the cars together, but were unable to sacrifice any of the AT sleepers or diners.

The sleepers just tipped over can't they be resalvaged? The coaches and one of the AT lounges seemed to recieve the must damage as the all got tangled up in an accordian.

I think the Chief misspelled the word "scrap", I think that he meant to say that Sanford had to "scrape"(meaning whatever they could find that still moved) together whatever cars they could find, in order to make a Sunset consist.

I don't think that he meant that they cut the cars up for scrap metal and sold them to the junk dealer.

At least that's my interpretation of how the Chief worded his sentence.