Cardinal Derails in Garrison, KY.

[AlanB]

Amtrak's New York-Chicago Cardinal passenger train derailed at Garrison, Ky., early Thursday morning shortly after making its regular stop in Huntington.
No injuries were reported.

The second and third of the train's three coaches jumped the track but remained upright. The derailment didn't affect the locomotive, the first coach, the dinette car or the sleeper behind the coaches. The 71 passengers aboard were bused to destinations between Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Chicago.

The full story from the Herald Dispatch.

 

[MrFSS]

Since it seems it was the host RR tracks that caused the de-rail, will that host RR pay Amtrak for expenses incurred? Or, do they have a hold harmless agreement with Amtrak?

 

[AlanB]

Since it seems it was the host RR tracks that caused the de-rail, will that host RR pay Amtrak for expenses incurred? Or, do they have a hold harmless agreement with Amtrak?

The host RR is indemnified from any damages to Amtrak. So the host RR will only pay to fix their own tracks that were damaged.

All other expenses will be borne by Amtrak.

 

[Yerry]

This is the standard arrangement made between all railroads since the very first trackage rights setup-- tenant railroad assumes all risks, theirs or not. Every railroad does this. In short, Amtrak self-insures itself while on others' property.

 

[MrFSS]

This is the standard arrangement made between all railroads since the very first trackage rights setup-- tenant railroad assumes all risks, theirs or not. Every railroad does this. In short, Amtrak self-insures itself while on others' property.

Interesting - the law in most jurisdictions doesn't allow a party to contract away their own negligence. That is, for instance, every time I see a parking garage say, "We aren't responsible for damage to your car." They very well could be responsible if they are negligent. Must be a pretty powerful contract between the host and Amtrak.

I also wonder if someone had been hurt if they would only bring claim against Amtrak. I'll bet they'd go after the host RR, too.

 

[AlanB]

This is the standard arrangement made between all railroads since the very first trackage rights setup-- tenant railroad assumes all risks, theirs or not. Every railroad does this. In short, Amtrak self-insures itself while on others' property.

Interesting - the law in most jurisdictions doesn't allow a party to contract away their own negligence. That is, for instance, every time I see a parking garage say, "We aren't responsible for damage to your car." They very well could be responsible if they are negligent. Must be a pretty powerful contract between the host and Amtrak.

It's not a contract that provides this protection. The freight RR's made Congress pass a law that protects them.

I also wonder if someone had been hurt if they would only bring claim against Amtrak.  I'll bet they'd go after the host RR, too.

That same law in effect prevents claims against the freight RR's by passengers. I think that they can be named in the suit, but any awards are paid by Amtrak, regardless of whose fault the accident was.

For example, the Auto Train derailment a few years back. It was clearly determined that CSX was totally at fault for that accident. Yet CSX will never pay a dime in settlement costs. Everything will come from Amtrak. The only costs that CSX incurred from that accident was in repairing their tracks and the delays to their freight caused by the closure of the line.

 

[Guest]

No, this type of arrangement dates back to the 1860's, and is about as ironclad as the Northwest Ordinance. They ALL do it, it's managed by the FRA, and it's stood up to many lawsuit attempts. It's done taht way simply because it's cheaper. Imagine how many routes Amtrak could run if tey also had to pay liability risks to the host railroad.

In the 1940's, SP wrecked a streamliner on Rock Island spring switches; SP had to take full liability.

In the 1910's, the Pere Marquette ran a passenger train into a LS&MS train near Chicago. They ahd been feuding over who had "right of first crossing" (which determines who dispatches and who has ROW). Since PM was the tenant, even though they were "right", they paid. . .

Most recently, several years ago CSX was found negligent in a wreck where an Amtrak train derailed on an improperly reassembled switch. It was a multi-million judgement, and siince Amtrak was the tenant, they wrote CSX a check for CSX to send on to the plaintiffs.

Sure, these are examples of where the tenant was in the right, but there are far, far more where the tenant was wrong (broken axles, and the like). It's just that THOSE stories aren't as interesting.

 

[Yerry]

HA! We both were replying simultaneously. The CSX wreck I mentioned was one of the Silver trains.

 

[AlanB]

No, this type of arrangement dates back to the 1860's, and is about as ironclad as the Northwest Ordinance. They ALL do it, it's managed by the FRA, and it's stood up to many lawsuit attempts. It's done taht way simply because it's cheaper. Imagine how many routes Amtrak could run if tey also had to pay liability risks to the host railroad.

Yes, this agreement has always existed with the frieght RR's. However, when it comes to Amtrak, I'm almost positive that there is an actual Federal law that protects the freight RR's from an Amtrak accident on their track, regardless of fault.

 

[RailFanNebraska]

this is what is screwed up about the system.

If a train is late because of a freight car derail me or breakdown, amtrak has to pay the expenses of put up its passengers in a hotel for the night

if a trail derails on freight lines, Amtrak has to pay the damages to their cars

its ... AHHHHHH once again

 

[AmtrakFan]

Well Folks here's what happened apperntly the Rail Spered under the Train.

 

[bwilburn542004]

Okay, now I am a little spooked. Our first train trip is in March on the Cardinal and then on to Kissimmee. I know that in all modes of transportation and for that matter, just daily life, there is a risk but now I am mainly concerned about time to make repairs. We already have our tickets. Seems like there will be plenty of time.

About how long does it take for repairs to be made and what type of investigation is done concerning the derailments? Could you explain what happens when "the rail spered under the train"?

 

[battalion51]

OK, the time to make those sorts of repairs is only a few hours. 91 went on the ground a few years back at Auburndale, and they had everything rerailed and ready for 97 by the time it got there. With this sort of derailment there usually isn't a big long huge investigation, since no one was killed and only a few minor injuries. What happened was the rail spread (spelling skills are great B) ), meaning there were a few weak ties holding the rails in gague. When the weight of the train hit the weak spot the rail spread out enough for the equipment to go on the ground.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Unless there is something catastrophic like Katrina, or enormous mudslides or rockslides or 40 or 50 freight cars with spilled hazardous chemicals and fires involved, most derailments involve less than a 24 hour blockage. Many are a lot less than that, even - a matter of hours. If the location involved has more than a single track, they may be able to open the undamaged track pretty quickly and then take more time on the damaged one. There will be a time immediately after it is reopened where there is high congestion (reasonable, right? - like clearing the interstate after a wreck that closed it during rush hour), but rarely is a heavily used track shut down for very long. And where the route will be blocked for a longer time, if there is an alternate route, a way around the blockage, they frequently will use it, albeit with delays from the rerouting itself and from the resultant congestion on that route. And Amtrak frequently will bus passengers across the service gap.

 

[Yerry]

True, but comparing wreck responsibility with delay responsibility is comparing apples to oranges. . . they're not related.

Amtrak has on-time incentives for most railroads (some don't want any and therefore won't contract for them). Late train by Landlord Railroad's fault costs that run' s payment. The glaring fault with this payment system is that under current budgets & contracts, NS makes more money from ONE priority freight car on a cross-system run than it does from SEVERAL days of on-time Amtrak trains traveling the same route. So, the incentive is marginal at best.

The two most common examples I personally ruin into in regard to on-time is a late AMtrak departure; CSX provides a window for an on-time departure and isn't interested in making up time for Amtrak's problem by holding their trains. the otehr is one railroad "inheriting" another railroad's late train; on-time is not theor fault and by not getting LATER, they get their bonus.

 

[Guest]

On the other hand, I'm guesing if a freight railroad derails on Amtrak owned tracks, they would pay for it, right? The recent CSX derailment in New York that pulled down catenary comes to mind.

 

[PRR 60]

On the other hand, I'm guesing if a freight railroad derails on Amtrak owned tracks, they would pay for it, right? The recent CSX derailment in New York that pulled down catenary comes to mind.

The no-fault, hold harmless provision provides for each party to pay their own costs. Amtrak pays Amtrak costs, and the freight RR's pay their costs. Any passenger-related costs (injury and personal liability) are Amtrak-related and thus are borne by Amtrak. The only exception is in the case of "gross negligence", which is defined very narrowly and is exceptionally difficult to prove.

Thus, applying the hold-harmless provisions to the CSX incident on the Amtrak-owned NEC, CSX paid for all damages and losses to their equipment and operation, and Amtrak paid for damage to Amtrak property and any associated Amtrak operational costs.