Capitol Limited & Lake Shore Limited Delays Summer/Fall 2014

[jis]

Yesterday 30 had a Sleeper bad ordered at the last moment requiring substitution by another Sleeper causing the delay. Rafi was on it. That is how I know.

 

[tommylicious]

Thanks for the color jis. So a Sleeper car went bad? What happened to it?

 

[jis]

Dunno. All that I heard is that it was bad ordered and replaced.

 

[afigg]

On a positive note, though, 29 today got to CHI 21 minutes late!

While #29(9/21) did ok on the ALC to CHI segment, #49(9/21) did not. It departed CLE 1 hour and 1 minute late, arrived CHI 3 hours and 47 minutes late.

On the other hand, #30(9/21,) with the bad ordered sleeper, departed CHI 4 hours and 5 minutes late, "only" lost 52 additional minutes to ALC, departing 4 hours and 57 minutes late. With the frequent delays in recent months on the NS tracks, could have been down 7 hours by ALC.

There are 2 service alerts on the Amtrak website for track work delays for Sunday to Thursday work windows on CSX sections in NY state. So the LSL is not going to get a break across upper state NY most of the week. The August and September monthly reports are not likely to have strong ridership numbers for the LSL and CL.

 

[neroden]

In good news, Englewood Flyover seems to be *way* ahead of schedule. Metra has opened one track and run the first trains over it.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/60663-englewood-flyover-progress/

The second track is supposed to open this coming weekend, after which the diamonds will be removed.

NS has said previously that Englewood Crossing was the single biggest chokepoint on their entire national system. So I hope that removing it will make their dispatchers' work easier.

If Englewood really was the key chokepoint for the entire NS system, it is possible that the flyover project may actually reduce delays due to NS trackwork elsewhere (even as far away as Ohio), by allowing them to get freight trains cleared out of the way of the trackwork well in advance of Amtrak's arrival.

We're not going to see relief on the Empire Corridor for a while unfortunately. :-(

 

[Railroad Bill]

This morning's CL 30 now running 8 hours late across Indiana. LSL running 5 hours late behind them. Passengers continue to be dedicated to Amtrak despite the total breakdown in OTP. It has been a long night sitting in Cleveland

 

[montana mike]

Are the big delays just due to "heavy traffic" or was there some incident that caused both of these trains to be so late?

Also, I thought the track work in western NY was supposed to be completed by mid-September. It doesn't look like any improvement in OTP at the stations from SYR to the west for westbound trains?

 

[Railroad Bill]

Are the big delays just due to "heavy traffic" or was there some incident that caused both of these trains to be so late?

Also, I thought the track work in western NY was supposed to be completed by mid-September. It doesn't look like any improvement in OTP at the stations from SYR to the west for westbound trains?

CL left Chicago on time but was 5 hours late by time it reached South Bend. LSL left an hour late from CHI but was 3 hours late into Elkhart. Both continued to lose more time as they went across Indiana.

 

[tommylicious]

look at this map! 29,30,48,49 stacked right on top of each other! http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/getmap.pl?mapname=East

 

[Barciur]

That's why I bought a sleeper for the return from Chicago next month. In case something like this happens, prefer to be in a private room

 

[afigg]

look at this map! 29,30,48,49 stacked right on top of each other! http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/getmap.pl?mapname=East

The problem with that link is that is a dynamic map. A couple of hours later and the trains will have moved on (hopefully).

Something must have happened to stop and seriously delay the eastbound CL and LSL overnight. #30 (9/23) is 8:45 late departing SKY and #48(9/23) is 6:57 late departing BYN. And once #48 gets pass Cleveland, it then has to get through CSX track work in upper state NY. #48(9/22) was over 6 hours late arriving at NYP at 12:40 AM, losing ~3.5 hours from Cleveland to Utica.

If #30 and #48 don't get bustituted, those trains will get to WAS and NYP very, very late.

 

[tommylicious]

what if you don't want to take the nasty bus? can you just ride the train back?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

what if you don't want to take the nasty bus? can you just ride the train back?

I doubt it. I suspect they deadhead the cars back. My guess is the OBS also take the bus to the end point.

 

[tommylicious]

that is just nasty. you paid for a nice bedroom, and end up on a junky, cramped bus.

 

[afigg]

that is just nasty. you paid for a nice bedroom, and end up on a junky, cramped bus.

But we don't know if Amtrak will bustitute either eastbound train. The CL and LSL have overnight turnarounds for equipment at WAS and NYP, so they may just slog through. In that case, those who paid for nice bedrooms and those who paid for coach can stay on the train with a full day of scenery to look at.

 

[tommylicious]

Anyone know what happened on the line?

 

[montana mike]

I see BOTH the CL and LSL heading into CHI have been basically sitting going nowhere in Indiana over the past couple hours. Both are now over 4 hours late and given the past experience over the last few miles in Indiana lately it would look like both could easily be 5-6 hours late arriving into CHI.

What a mess in Indiana today--an almost total meltdown!!!

 

[jis]

NS has had a complete meltdown in Indiana since yesterday, and they are yet to recover. Their own hotshots are also running many hours behind schedule upsetting their best customers.

 

[montana mike]

Any idea what caused this problem? Both the CL and LSL still crawling westward (still in Indiana), and BOTH look like they will be around 6 hours late arriving in CHI--OUCH!

:-(

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Looks like they held 3 and 5 for 49. Neither have departed CHI yet (5 is on the modified schedule of 2:50 departure).

 

[neroden]

Do we know whether there was a specific accident or trackwork or signal failure yesterday, or whether this is just NS's underinvestment catching up with them?

Damn, I am so much smarter in some ways than the CEOs running some of the class Is. This upturn in railroad business was *predictable* and in fact I predicted it back in 2008 -- even down to the specific regions which would need more service. Apparently, sitting on substantially more data, the railroad CEOs didn't predict it. I kind of hate being smarter than the people in charge, it means you watch predictable, avoidable disasters unfold.

The problem is probably a problem of attitude. These are old fogies running the companies; I'm not sure they're capable of really imagining a true resurgence in rail demand, since it's been nothing but false starts for most of their lives. I see a little farther into the future than most people my age, but a lot farther than someone 15 years older (or more). They'd do better if they put (the right) 20-year-old in charge.

 

[jis]

Any idea what caused this problem? Both the CL and LSL still crawling westward (still in Indiana), and BOTH look like they will be around 6 hours late arriving in CHI--OUCH!

:-(

The problem apparently is Chicago and congestion in getting trains across Chicago, causing crews to time out on main lines stalling trains blocking everything. As soon as they are able to decongest Chicago things will start moving again I am told.

 

[afigg]

The westbound CL and LSL have made it to CHI, but both over 5.5 hours late. Given that if Amtrak sends them eastward tonight, they will be departing late, have to wonder if consideration is being given to annulling one or both to allow crew rest and maintenance to catch up. The eastbound CL and LSL that left on 9/23 are still enroute, both over 8 hours late.

For the record, this is the status maps dump for the westbound 9/23 CL and LSL. The damage is mostly between Toledo and Chicago and from my random checks of the Amtrak train tracker, the problem was/is east of Porter as the Michigan trains don't appear to be that late. Would be nice if Amtrak posted a status alert or there was specific information on whether this was just a system meltdown or a combination of factors leading to a bad day.

* Train 29 of 09/23/2014.
* Capitol Limited
* +---------------- Station code
* |    +----------- Schedule Arrival Day 
* |    |  +-------- Schedule Arrival time
* |    |  |     +----- Schedule Departure Day
* |    |  |     |  +-- Schedule Departure Time
* |    |  |     |  |     +------------- Actual Arrival Time
* |    |  |     |  |     |     +------- Actual Departure Time
* |    |  |     |  |     |     |     +- Comments
* V    V  V     V  V     V     V     V
* WAS  *  *     1  405P  *     405P  Departed:  on time.
* RKV  *  *     1  429P  *     433P  Departed:  4 minutes late.
* HFY  *  *     1  516P  *     522P  Departed:  6 minutes late.
* MRB  *  *     1  545P  *     550P  Departed:  5 minutes late.
* CUM  1  714P  1  724P  716P  724P  Departed:  on time.
* COV  *  *     1  947P  *     947P  Departed:  on time.
* PGH  1  1148P 1  1159P 1121P 1159P Departed:  on time.
* ALC  *  *     2  139A  *     259A  Departed:  1 hour and 20 minutes late.
* CLE  2  253A  2  259A  420A  426A  Departed:  1 hour and 27 minutes late.
* ELY  *  *     2  329A  *     510A  Departed:  1 hour and 41 minutes late.
* SKY  *  *     2  402A  *     546A  Departed:  1 hour and 44 minutes late.
* TOL  2  508A  2  522A  652A  703A  Departed:  1 hour and 41 minutes late.
* WTI  *  *     2  636A  *     843A  Departed:  2 hours and 7 minutes late.
* EKH  *  *     2  729A  *     1203P Departed:  4 hours and 34 minutes late.
* SOB  *  *     2  751A  *     1225P Departed:  4 hours and 34 minutes late.
* CHI  2  845A  *  *     236P  *     Arrived:  5 hours and 51 minutes late.

* Train 49 of 09/23/2014.
* Lake Shore Limited
* NYP  *  *     1  340P  *     340P  Departed:  on time.
* CRT  *  *     1  426P  *     426P  Departed:  on time.
* POU  *  *     1  510P  *     513P  Departed:  3 minutes late.
* RHI  *  *     1  527P  *     528P  Departed:  1 minute late.
* ALB  1  620P  1  705P  611P  708P  Departed:  3 minutes late.
* SDY  *  *     1  731P  *     740P  Departed:  9 minutes late.
* UCA  *  *     1  844P  *     924P  Departed:  40 minutes late.
* SYR  *  *     1  941P  *     1035P Departed:  54 minutes late.
* ROC  *  *     1  1100P *     1210A Departed:  1 hour and 10 minutes late.
* BUF  1  1155P 1  1159P 114A  135A  Departed:  1 hour and 36 minutes late.
* ERI  *  *     2  136A  *     310A  Departed:  1 hour and 34 minutes late.
* CLE  2  327A  2  345A  443A  450A  Departed:  1 hour and 5 minutes late.
* ELY  *  *     2  418A  *     533A  Departed:  1 hour and 15 minutes late.
* SKY  *  *     2  455A  *     616A  Departed:  1 hour and 21 minutes late.
* TOL  2  555A  2  615A  723A  747A  Departed:  1 hour and 32 minutes late.
* BYN  *  *     2  705A  *     936A  Departed:  2 hours and 31 minutes late.
* WTI  *  *     2  733A  *     1031A Departed:  2 hours and 58 minutes late.
* EKH  *  *     2  825A  *     1259P Departed:  4 hours and 34 minutes late.
* SOB  *  *     2  849A  *     207P  Departed:  5 hours and 18 minutes late.
* CHI  2  945A  *  *     325P  *     Arrived:  5 hours and 40 minutes late.

 

[JoeZeppy412]

Moderator Note: These posts were originally in a thread entitled "CL 30 just announced leaving at 8:30." (which appears to refer to 9/24 train 30). The posts were moved to this thread regarding Capitol Limited and Lakeshore Limited.

Due to "crew rest" it sounded like they said?

Good thing I jammed that hot dog in my face ten minutes ago...

Seriously, why did they wait until I pulled my carry on out if the locker, tore through the food court, pounded dinner and a beer, and tore back?

They really just discovered a two hour delay 20 minutes before the train is to leave? That's BS...

 

[richm49]

The westbound CL and LSL have made it to CHI, but both over 5.5 hours late. Given that if Amtrak sends them eastward tonight, they will be departing late, have to wonder if consideration is being given to annulling one or both to allow crew rest and maintenance to catch up. The eastbound CL and LSL that left on 9/23 are still enroute, both over 8 hours late.

For the record, this is the status maps dump for the westbound 9/23 CL and LSL. The damage is mostly between Toledo and Chicago and from my random checks of the Amtrak train tracker, the problem was/is east of Porter as the Michigan trains don't appear to be that late. Would be nice if Amtrak posted a status alert or there was specific information on whether this was just a system meltdown or a combination of factors leading to a bad day.

* Train 29 of 09/23/2014.
* Capitol Limited
* +---------------- Station code
* | +----------- Schedule Arrival Day
* | | +-------- Schedule Arrival time
* | | | +----- Schedule Departure Day
* | | | | +-- Schedule Departure Time
* | | | | | +------------- Actual Arrival Time
* | | | | | | +------- Actual Departure Time
* | | | | | | | +- Comments
* V V V V V V V V
* WAS * * 1 405P * 405P Departed: on time.
* RKV * * 1 429P * 433P Departed: 4 minutes late.
* HFY * * 1 516P * 522P Departed: 6 minutes late.
* MRB * * 1 545P * 550P Departed: 5 minutes late.
* CUM 1 714P 1 724P 716P 724P Departed: on time.
* COV * * 1 947P * 947P Departed: on time.
* PGH 1 1148P 1 1159P 1121P 1159P Departed: on time.
* ALC * * 2 139A * 259A Departed: 1 hour and 20 minutes late.
* CLE 2 253A 2 259A 420A 426A Departed: 1 hour and 27 minutes late.
* ELY * * 2 329A * 510A Departed: 1 hour and 41 minutes late.
* SKY * * 2 402A * 546A Departed: 1 hour and 44 minutes late.
* TOL 2 508A 2 522A 652A 703A Departed: 1 hour and 41 minutes late.
* WTI * * 2 636A * 843A Departed: 2 hours and 7 minutes late.
* EKH * * 2 729A * 1203P Departed: 4 hours and 34 minutes late.
* SOB * * 2 751A * 1225P Departed: 4 hours and 34 minutes late.
* CHI 2 845A * * 236P * Arrived: 5 hours and 51 minutes late.

* Train 49 of 09/23/2014.
* Lake Shore Limited
* NYP  *  *     1  340P  *     340P  Departed:  on time.
* CRT  *  *     1  426P  *     426P  Departed:  on time.
* POU  *  *     1  510P  *     513P  Departed:  3 minutes late.
* RHI  *  *     1  527P  *     528P  Departed:  1 minute late.
* ALB  1  620P  1  705P  611P  708P  Departed:  3 minutes late.
* SDY  *  *     1  731P  *     740P  Departed:  9 minutes late.
* UCA  *  *     1  844P  *     924P  Departed:  40 minutes late.
* SYR  *  *     1  941P  *     1035P Departed:  54 minutes late.
* ROC  *  *     1  1100P *     1210A Departed:  1 hour and 10 minutes late.
* BUF  1  1155P 1  1159P 114A  135A  Departed:  1 hour and 36 minutes late.
* ERI  *  *     2  136A  *     310A  Departed:  1 hour and 34 minutes late.
* CLE  2  327A  2  345A  443A  450A  Departed:  1 hour and 5 minutes late.
* ELY  *  *     2  418A  *     533A  Departed:  1 hour and 15 minutes late.
* SKY  *  *     2  455A  *     616A  Departed:  1 hour and 21 minutes late.
* TOL  2  555A  2  615A  723A  747A  Departed:  1 hour and 32 minutes late.
* BYN  *  *     2  705A  *     936A  Departed:  2 hours and 31 minutes late.
* WTI  *  *     2  733A  *     1031A Departed:  2 hours and 58 minutes late.
* EKH  *  *     2  825A  *     1259P Departed:  4 hours and 34 minutes late.
* SOB  *  *     2  849A  *     207P  Departed:  5 hours and 18 minutes late.
* CHI  2  945A  *  *     325P  *     Arrived:  5 hours and 40 minutes late.

As of this moment both 30/CL and 48/LSL are both approaching 10 hours late.As of 7:29 P.M. the CL was just departing CUM( due to depart 9:31 A.M.) and the LSL departed BUF at 7:00 P.M. (due to depart at 9:08 A.M.). Additional delays can be expected as these operating crews are outlawed and have to wait for replacement crews.At their current operating pace the CL won't arrive WAS before 11 P.M. and the LSL won't make NYP before 4 A.M. tomorrow morning! At least it will make AM rush hour connections in New York….lol. With summer now in the rearview mirror there does not seem to be any end to these crushing delays.Any way to do a temporary re-route to avoid some of these delays?