Capitol Limited discussion 2023 Q4 - 2024

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What are the stops on the Capitol Limited between Chicago and Washington DC? I am wondering where the significant stops are (e.g. fresh air stops)? Thank you!
 
Thank you for your help! The timetable chart is great!
 

Attachments

  • Capitol Limited Timetable - capitol-limited.pdf
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I think the Capitol Ltd and Cardinal should swap NEC roles and equipment. Given the frequency of CSX derailments on the former B&O, that would allow reroutes via Harrisburg, and on normal days eliminate some Pittsburgh transfers for those headed between NYP/PHL on one hand and CLE/CHI on the other. Patronage on the Cardinal east of Washington is very light.

Run the Cardinal WAS - CHI with Superliners.
Run the Capitol Ltd NYP - WAS -CHI with low level cars. It can still be done with 3 train sets, which could be rotated out to Hialeah among Silver trains in Sunnyside.

There should be enough Viewliners and Amfleet-2 coaches wasted on day trains to do that. With 6 Superliner sleepers and 6 Superliner coaches now needed for the Capitol Ltd, the equipment utilization with over 24 hours of lay up in Washington is very inefficient. 2 Superliner sleepers and 4 Superliner coaches could cover the Cardinal. Send the balance out west. Supplement with Superliner trans-dorms when they become available from Beech Grove.
 
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Amtrak25 said:
I think the Capitol Ltd and Cardinal should swap NEC roles and equipment. Given the frequency of CSX derailments on the former B&O, that would allow reroutes via Harrisburg, and on normal days eliminate some Pittsburgh transfers for those headed between NYP/PHL on one hand and CLE/CHI on the other. Patronage on the Cardinal east of Washington is very light.

Run the Cardinal WAS - CHI with Superliners.
Run the Capitol Ltd NYP - WAS -CHI with low level cars. It can still be done with 3 train sets, which could be rotated out to Hialeah among Silver trains in Sunnyside.

There should be enough Viewliners and Amfleet-2 coaches wasted on day trains to do that. With 6 Superliner sleepers and 6 Superliner coaches now needed for the Capitol Ltd, the equipment utilization with over 24 hours of lay up in Washington is very inefficient. 2 Superliner sleepers and 4 Superliner coaches could cover the Cardinal. Send the balance out west. Supplement with Superliner trans-dorms when they become available from Beech Grove.
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A capital idea! The Cardinal used to have dome cars, and it was a shame when this scenic route went to single level, so it could extend to New York. In the 1980s I first heard it was hard to get a ticket in the summer, when it runs the New River Gorge in daylight hours. There's no way to see most of the Gorge by motor car.

As a Chicago - New York direct train, the Capitol Ltd. would save about six hours over the Cardinal, bringing the trip closer to the runtime of the Lakeshore.

People in northern and western Virginia and West Virginia who use it as a day train to New York would not be pleased, but they could be mollified by... running it seven days a week! For all the talk about the Long Bridge being at capacity until 2030, there do seem to be four slots a week unused.

The Cardinal serves the 2nd, 3rd and 5th busiest stations in WV (exclusively); and the 2nd and 3rd busiest in VA (excluding Autotrain, 2019 numbers). So for direct service to BAL, PHL, NYP, it is an issue. I'd be in favor of the new plan even at three days a week, as it's better service for the system, but others might not be.

greatdome.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Dome_(railcar)

cardinal-1980s.png
Horizon, from 1980's Cardinal Brochure
 
There are other trains running very close to the Cardinal in the NEC that a transfer could be done. They should capitalize on the WAS-CINCY-IND market, even at the expense of some NEC business, which there is not much of anyway. It is trying to be an all-purpose train, but does a lousy job at it. Nobody wants to leave NYPS at 630am.
 
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Amtrak25 said:
There are other trains running very close to the Cardinal in the NEC that a transfer could be done. They should capitalize on the WAS-CINCY-IND market, even at the expense of some NEC business, which there is not much of anyway. It is trying to be an all-purpose train, but does a lousy job at it. Nobody wants to leave NYPS at 630am.
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While I agree, it's also true connections are a drag, especially from the west. And many people want to leave New York at 6:30am. It's the busiest time at airports, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know what they were thinking in 1981, other than WV Senator Byrd's intervention, but the Wikipedia pages are interesting. Maybe they just looked at a map and said the middle one, between the Cardinal and the Lake Shore, would terminate in Washington. Back then the busy CVS station in VA only had the Crescent and the Cardinal. That has changed with the NER's.
 
JamesWhitcombRiley said:
While I agree, it's also true connections are a drag, especially from the west. And many people want to leave New York at 6:30am. It's the busiest time at airports, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know what they were thinking in 1981, other than WV Senator Byrd's intervention, but the Wikipedia pages are interesting. Maybe they just looked at a map and said the middle one, between the Cardinal and the Lake Shore, would terminate in Washington. Back then the busy CVS station in VA only had the Crescent and the Cardinal. That has changed with the NER's.
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Cardinal was created by rejiggering and partly rerouting the George Washington/James Whitcomb Riley. It serves that specific market well, specially if made daily. The fact that it happens to connect PHL and NYP to CHI is an incidental thing, which it does not do very well.
 
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This has given me an idea! for a new train (so it is unlikely to happen but one I would totally use) Run a new NYP to CHI train Via the Pennsylvanian rout but run it approximately 12 hours off the Capitol schedule. Tat would give a lot of busy station en-route service at a reasonable time. Boston passengers would be able to connect with 66/67 at New York.

Granted I would also love to see a second Lake Shore limited run but the is even less likely then this impossibility.
 
B&Ofan said:
This has given me an idea! for a new train (so it is unlikely to happen but one I would totally use) Run a new NYP to CHI train Via the Pennsylvanian rout but run it approximately 12 hours off the Capitol schedule. Tat would give a lot of busy station en-route service at a reasonable time. Boston passengers would be able to connect with 66/67 at New York.

Granted I would also love to see a second Lake Shore limited run but the is even less likely then this impossibility.
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I presume overnight NYP - PGH, a day time run across Ohio and Indiana, and avoid the redundancy argument with the CL and LSL, but there would be very few connections to be made at Chicago.
 
From what I've been seeing on railcams, tonight's EB #30 had a deadheading amfleet cafe car at the rear.

1708399270478.png
1708399289026.png

It doesn't look like it was in revenue service, and did not utilize its native lights (as it had an EOTD / end of train device). I know sometimes they attach amfleet cafe cars on other services for use of its wifi (e.g. Hiawatha), but in this case, it does not look like there's any power going to it.
 
The C&O and Amtrak prededessors to the Cardinal in the 1970's were mostly Cincy - Newport News trains, gradually shifting their emphasis to Washington. The inauguration of the extended NEC train "Colonial" to Newport News sealed the deal and eventually cut off Charlottesville - Newport News as a route segment becoming a Thruway bus.

My guess is that car is headed to Bear, DE and is totally dead, cant even light up its marker lights. They have often deadheaded Amfleet on the head end of 29/30 between the loco and baggage car, but this time used a trans-dorm to buffer the diaphragms and stuck it on the rear, something wrong with its HEP.
 
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So there is a rumor over on Trainorders of the Capital Limited going single level and the Silver Star stopping at Washington DC instead of NYC. The Cap would use the Silver Star's equipment and the Superliners would love back west. Or possibly combined into one train?

Back in the day, didn't Amtrak have a thru coach from the Cap Ltd. to one of the Silver trains?
 
frequentflyer said:
So there is a rumor over on Trainorders of the Capital Limited going single level and the Silver Star stopping at Washington DC instead of NYC. The Cap would use the Silver Star's equipment and the Superliners would love back west. Or possibly combined into one train?
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We have been discussing this here at AU for almost a week now. See the thread at:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...ce-discussion-q4-2023-2024.86123/post-1038692

There is nothing new mentioned on Trainorders that has not been covered in detail here.
Back in the day, didn't Amtrak have a thru coach from the Cap Ltd. to one of the Silver trains?
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Yes. Also discussed in the Atlantic Coast Service thread. See:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...ce-discussion-q4-2023-2024.86123/post-1038840
 
If anyone here checks Capitol after September 5 -6 it will find that family room shows sold out all dates. Since Family room is Superliner only Amtrak is not selling it on Capitol. That IMO is indicating Amtrak is planning to remove Superliners from Capitol after those dates but is not entirely sure that will happen. It could be that Amtrak is worried about an unknown unknown will happen before then that would change Amtrak's plans for Capitol. One item would be loss of significant single level equipment.

Right now, all Star's city pairs WAS and south are available thru FEB have no schedule change. But any Star north of WAS shows sold out without any alternate way to connect Star to north of WAS destinations. That may be another indication of Amtrak hoping that any unknowns do not happen? Going north of WAS to BOS regional 178 or Night Owl #66 which could be a sleeper from Star.


If Star does not go WAS <> NYP that frees up 1 whole train set of single level equipment. So, if Star's equipment is used to cover Capitol only one more single level train set would be needed for Capitol. Amtrak a while back advertised for car cleaners at WAS that might have one task to clean train set at WAS.

In conclusion too many possibilities at present.
 
One result of this speculated change will be the absence of Superliner trains in the East (except for the Auto Train). So for those who are fans of these, or have not yet had the opportunity to ride them close to home, “ride ‘em while you can”. Unfortunately, it seems that the opportunity to ride in a Sightseer Lounge over Sand Patch, is already gone…😕
 

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