Brightline Trains Florida discussion 2024 H1

[joelkfla]

When I was up there last week they had Palmetto Ave closed (which is how I like to get to my usual downtown Melbourne destination) for signal work, so there're probably some lingering issues or continuing work going on.

Just saw on an Orlando newscast that US-192 in Melbourne will be closed this weekend for unspecified work by Brightline.

 

[bonzoesc]

Just saw on an Orlando newscast that US-192 in Melbourne will be closed this weekend for unspecified work by Brightline.

Going by work chat, it closed Friday afternoon and completely gridlocked downtown.

 

[VentureForth]

Going by work chat, it closed Friday afternoon and completely gridlocked downtown.

This had been planned for a while with electronic signage out for at least the last week or two. Yes, it’s the main artery downtown. New Haven and Melbourne Ave are two close by alternatives.

 

[Anderson]

I didn't quite understand this. Tri-rail is cheaper and makes more stops. People who can afford BL will take it if it's more or less as close to their destination. If/when commuter rail opens on the FEC corridor, that will be a different matter. In the meantime, the competing train services to FLL airport will be interesting. Tri-rail is closer, but BL is quicker. BL has its mix of shuttle and premium uber. Tri-rail has a mix of shuttle a $5 vouchers for taxis and uber. FLL is a popular second airport for Miamians.

One advantage of Tri-rail is no reservations. On BL you have to make a costly change if your plane is late coming in, as far as I know. It's similar to the dual train services at BWI, EWR, and, just barely, ORD.

Reading the BL website, I see it offers the same shuttle service, at the same cost, between MIA airport and Miami Central station. "First come, first served." The frequency and service hours of BL and Tri-rail are vaguely comparable to Amtrak and commuter rail at BWI and EWR (if you include the NWK Penn bus).

BL offers a guaranteed ability to change with a late inbound flight (essentially HOBNAT), but the system is buggy.

 

[Maverickstation]

Here is a good overview of Brightline service from a blogger who took a trip from Orlando to Fort Lauderdale, and after their Disney Cruise, the trip back to Orlando.

 

[cirdan]

BL offers a guaranteed ability to change with a late inbound flight (essentially HOBNAT), but the system is buggy.

This would require them to keep a certain number of seats on later trains blocked for such an eventuality. That must be quite costly.

 

[bonzoesc]

This would require them to keep a certain number of seats on later trains blocked for such an eventuality. That must be quite costly.

It’s only costly if it’s a ticket they would’ve otherwise been able to sell. They probably have a big spreadsheet of flight reliability and how many empty seats are leaving each station, and at least a vague idea of how many passengers are relying on that guaranteed connection.

 

[Anderson]

It’s only costly if it’s a ticket they would’ve otherwise been able to sell. They probably have a big spreadsheet of flight reliability and how many empty seats are leaving each station, and at least a vague idea of how many passengers are relying on that guaranteed connection.

Also, it's next available train. There's a decent chance that they'll have space on one of the evening trains each way on most days.

 

[jis]

Florida State Legislature starting to help Brightline Orlando - Tampa development...

https://baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/...-talking-i-4-rail-future-today-in-tallahassee

 

[Reo Langster]

There is Amtrak and a Brightline station in Orlando. I will be taking the Amtrak train to Miami, BUT if I get off in Orlando I can take the Brightline train and make to Miami around 3 instead of 6pm. My question is how far is the Amtrak station from the Brightline station in Orlando?

 

[pennyk]

There is Amtrak and a Brightline station in Orlando. I will be taking the Amtrak train to Miami, BUT if I get off in Orlando I can take the Brightline train and make to Miami around 3 instead of 6pm. My question is how far is the Amtrak station from the Brightline station in Orlando?

The Brightline station is located at the airport. Amtrak Orlando is just south of downtown and west of Orange Avenue. Depending on the route, the distance is between 10 and 20 miles (with traffic). It is possible to take SunRail to Sand Lake Road then a Lynx (city) bus to the airport. That is time consuming and since SunRail does not run regularly during non peak hours and not at all on weekends, it is probably not a great option (although I took it the one time I rode Brightline).

I know of one member who took a Silver to ORL then either a cab or uber to Brightline and it worked out OK. Maybe he will chime in.

 

[Railroad Bill]

We took Amtrak from CLE to ORL for a cruise in Fort Lauderdale. Rode Silver Meteor from WAS and arrived in ORL close to on time. We had a lot of luggage so decided to take Lyft from ORL to Brightline at Orlando International Airport. We only waited 10 minutes and Lyft arrived, loaded our luggage in her SUV and off we went. Lot of traffic and allow at least 45 minutes when scheduling your BL train. She dropped us at the entrance to Terminal C. Easy walk to door and elevator. Must go through security, check large bags at counter, scan your ticket and carry on bag. Nice lounge area for regular passengers and super lounge for the First Class riders * food and quiet*. When train arrives you must go down escalator or elevators to lower level train platforms. Seats are comfortable. Train is very clean and new. 130 mph from Orlando to the coast, then slower going through the city stops on the coast. It was about 3 hour ride. Station in Fort Lauderdale was nice but crowded. We opted to take cab to our hotel which was a 15 minute ride in heavy traffic on a Friday night. Would ride again when in Fla.

 

[lordsigma]

LYNX just announced a new proposed route to begin in April that could be convenient for last mile connections for Brightline to all the major destinations. It will run every 30 minutes between the airport, Sand Lake Drive Sunrail, Florida Mall, Destination Parkway, Idrive/Convention Center, and Disney Springs. That could also make it possible for Amtrak users to get to the area theme parks a bit easier (on days when Sunrail is running of course.) Hopefully it will serve as a temporary bridge to eventual rail service across the same corridor.

 

[west point]

Now if LYNX properly schedules the bus to / from Orlando airport that could be a real winner. Since the north bound and southbound trains arrive very close to same time at Sandlake that will supply connections both ways. Arrive from MCO 5 minutes before the trains and leave 5 minutes for MCO about 5 minutes after. That of course depends on how close the bus can stop next to the platform.

Can Lynx be depended to be on time with the route scheduled due to traffic woes? Otherwise the bus schedule might be needed to split arrival times at Sandlake which would give a 14 minute scheduled wait at Sandlake for both the trains and buses.

 

[joelkfla]

Can Lynx be depended to be on time with the route scheduled due to traffic woes?

No.

 

[pennyk]

MODERATOR NOTE: Please keep your comments on the topic of Brightline Florida.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.

 

[JoeRids]

Does anyone know the status of the advertising wrap on the trains? I read on another website that Brightline is removing the wrapping over the windows, and only keep the ads above and below the windows.

 

[Anderson]

January 2024 results. Short Distance, Long Distance, then Combined.

2021    November     61,045     0.6         $  582,979    $ 9.83    $ 9.55    0.8     $13.11
2021    December     95,348     1.3         $1,259,547    $13.63    $13.21    1.6     $13.63

2021                156,393     1.8         $1,842,309    $11.51    $11.78    2.4*    $15.34

Year    Month       Ridership   Tix Rev-A    Tix Rev-B     PPR-A     PPR-B    Tot Rev  Total PPR
2022    January      64,243     1.3         $1,254,666    $20.24    $19.53    1.5     $23.35
2022    February     77,806     1.6         $1,624,589    $20.56    $20.88    1.9     $24.42
2022    March       107,069     2.3         $2,289,135    $21.48    $21.38    2.7     $25.22
2022    April        93,922     1.9         $1,926,340    $20.23    $20.51    2.3     $24.49
2022    May         102,796     2.2         $2,178,247    $21.40    $21.19    2.6     $25.29
2022    June         92,304     1.7         $1,713,162    $18.42    $18.56    2.1     $22.75
2022    July        111,582     1.9         $1,896,894    $17.03    $17.00    2.3     $20.61
2022    August      100,116     1.9         $1,917,221    $18.98    $19.15    2.4     $23.97
2022    September    91,577     1.8         $1,769,268    $19.66    $19.32    2.5     $27.30
2022    October     102,615     2.1         $2,126,183    $20.46    $20.72    3.0     $29.24
2022    November    102,544     2.2         $2,213,925    $21.45    $21.59    3.4     $33.16
2022    December    183,920     3.7         $3,733,576    $20.12    $20.30    5.1     $27.73
                   
2022                1,230,494  24.6        $24,643,207    $19.99             31.8     $25.84

2023    January     156,137     3.5         $3,538,064    $22.41    $22.66    4.7     $30.10
2023    February    151,654     3.7         $3,654,861    $24.39    $24.10    4.7     $30.99
2023    March       179,576     4.7         $4,710,278    $26.17    $26.23    6.5     $36.20
2023    April       151,080     3.4         $3,446,135    $22.50    $22.81    4.9     $32.43
2023    May         168,137     3.5         $3,468,666    $20.82    $20.63    5.2     $30.93
2023    June        149,536     2.7         $2,706,602    $18.06    $18.10    4.2     $28.09
2023    July        156,478     2.8         $2,818,169    $17.89    $18.01    4.3     $27.50
2023    August      149,821     2.6         $2,581,416    $17.35    $17.23    4.0     $26.70
2023    September   125,475     2.6         $2,588,549    $20.72    $20.63
2023    October     126,059     3.1         $3,092,227    $24.59    $24.53
2023    November    112,423     2.9         $2,915,128    $25.79    $25.93
2023    December    121,386     3.5         $3,470,426    $28.83    $28.59

2023                1,747,762   39.0       $38,992,570    $22.31    $22.31

2024    January     113,560     3.2         $3,246,680    $28.18    $28.59

                                Filing      Derived       Derived   Filing    Filing  Derived

Year    Month       Ridership   Tix Rev-A    Tix Rev-B     PPR-A     PPR-B    Tot Rev  Total PPR
2023    September    17,578      1.5         $1,479,364   $85.33    $84.16  
2023    October      79,686      7.3         $7,314,378   $91.61    $91.79
2023    November     93,184      8.4         $8,360,468   $90.14    $89.72
2023    December    115,683      9.0         $8,970,060   $77.80    $77.54

2023                306,131     26.1        $26,125,220   $85.26    $85.34

2024    January     122,703      9.1         $9,126,649   $74.16    $74.38        

                                Filing      Derived       Derived   Filing    Filing  Derived

2021    November     61,045     0.6         $  582,979    $ 9.83    $ 9.55    0.8     $13.11
2021    December     95,348     1.3         $1,259,547    $13.63    $13.21    1.6     $13.63

2021                156,393     1.8         $1,842,309    $11.51    $11.78    2.4*    $15.34

Year    Month       Ridership   Tix Rev-A    Tix Rev-B     PPR-A     PPR-B    Tot Rev  Total PPR
2022    January      64,243     1.3         $1,254,666    $20.24    $19.53    1.5     $23.35
2022    February     77,806     1.6         $1,624,589    $20.56    $20.88    1.9     $24.42
2022    March       107,069     2.3         $2,289,135    $21.48    $21.38    2.7     $25.22
2022    April        93,922     1.9         $1,926,340    $20.23    $20.51    2.3     $24.49
2022    May         102,796     2.2         $2,178,247    $21.40    $21.19    2.6     $25.29
2022    June         92,304     1.7         $1,713,162    $18.42    $18.56    2.1     $22.75
2022    July        111,582     1.9         $1,896,894    $17.03    $17.00    2.3     $20.61
2022    August      100,116     1.9         $1,917,221    $18.98    $19.15    2.4     $23.97
2022    September    91,577     1.8         $1,769,268    $19.66    $19.32    2.5     $27.30
2022    October     102,615     2.1         $2,126,183    $20.46    $20.72    3.0     $29.24
2022    November    102,544     2.2         $2,213,925    $21.45    $21.59    3.4     $33.16
2022    December    183,920     3.7         $3,733,576    $20.12    $20.30    5.1     $27.73
                   
2022                1,230,494  24.6        $24,643,207    $19.99             31.8     $25.84

2023    January     156,137     3.5         $3,538,064    $22.41    $22.66    4.7     $30.10
2023    February    151,654     3.7         $3,654,861    $24.39    $24.10    4.7     $30.99
2023    March       179,576     4.7         $4,710,278    $26.17    $26.23    6.5     $36.20
2023    April       151,080     3.4         $3,446,135    $22.50    $22.81    4.9     $32.43
2023    May         168,137     3.5         $3,468,666    $20.82    $20.63    5.2     $30.93
2023    June        149,536     2.7         $2,706,602    $18.06    $18.10    4.2     $28.09
2023    July        156,478     2.8         $2,818,169    $17.89    $18.01    4.3     $27.50
2023    August      149,821     2.6         $2,581,416    $17.35    $17.23    4.0     $26.70
2023    September   143,053     4.1         $4,068,427    $28.66    $28.44    5.8     $40.54
2023    October     205,745    10.4        $10,406,582    $50.55    $50.58   12.8     $62.21
2023    November    205,607    11.3        $11,275,488    $54.96    $54.84   13.9     $67.60
2023    December    237,069    12.4        $12,441,381    $52.31    $52.48   16.7     $70.44

2023              2,053,893    65.1        $65,108,408    $31.70    $31.70   87.7     $42.70

2024    January     236,263    12.4        $12,373,093    $52.48    $52.37   15.3     $64.76

                                Filing      Derived       Derived   Filing    Filing  Derived

 

[west point]

Interesting that Jan 2023 is almost same as Dec 2023. Jan usually a slow month compared to Dec. Have to wonder if the same would be true for Amtrak if it provided enough capacity?

 

[Anderson]

Interesting that Jan 2023 is almost same as Dec 2023. Jan usually a slow month compared to Dec. Have to wonder if the same would be true for Amtrak if it provided enough capacity?

So, two asterisks apply to the prior December/January combos:
(1) Brightline didn't do any Polar Express stuff in December 2023, so that wasn't there to cause a "bubble" in ridership in December.
(2) Brightline opened up Aventura/Boca in December 2022, so the promo fares and attention drove up ridership then.

We simply haven't had a December where Brightline wasn't doing something "special" operationally yet. I think this is probably closer to a long-term norm. I would have expected a small dip, but that expectation isn't marked in stone since while tourist travel rises over the holidays, business travel drops.

 

[cirdan]

Interesting that Jan 2023 is almost same as Dec 2023. Jan usually a slow month compared to Dec. Have to wonder if the same would be true for Amtrak if it provided enough capacity?

February typically not too exciting either, but March will be the one to watch out for.

 

[Palmland]

This is a complaint about Brightline (or maybe Orlando airport). I dropped my brother off this morning and the signage for the route via Terminals A and B to Brightline station at C were terrible- almost nonexistent. We wound up at the parking garage and thanks to a couple attendants found the drop off location on one of the upper levels of the garage. It was a curiously unimpressive entrance to their very grand station.

Fortunately as we were dropping them off I could see the pedestrian bridge between C and Brightline is well along and it appears there will be a drop off location at street level without navigating the garage. Would like to learn if that what’s actually planned.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Does anyone know the status of the advertising wrap on the trains? I read on another website that Brightline is removing the wrapping over the windows, and only keep the ads above and below the windows.

I hope so... I made certain that my voice was heard when I rode a wrapped train. It's also been part of the reason I haven't ridden the Orlando section yet... I don't want to pay that money to ride a wrapped train, would just assume take Amtrak or Red Coach.

 

[joelkfla]

This is a complaint about Brightline (or maybe Orlando airport). I dropped my brother off this morning and the signage for the route via Terminals A and B to Brightline station at C were terrible- almost nonexistent. We wound up at the parking garage and thanks to a couple attendants found the drop off location on one of the upper levels of the garage. It was a curiously unimpressive entrance to their very grand station.

Fortunately as we were dropping them off I could see the pedestrian bridge between C and Brightline is well along and it appears there will be a drop off location at street level without navigating the garage. Would like to learn if that what’s actually planned.

There's a drop-off at street level on the opposite side of the station from the garage, unless they've blocked it off.

 

[Palmland]

There's a drop-off at street level

That would have been good but there were no signs for it, at least coming in the north side, nor did google maps know about it. I’ll have to spend some time exploring when not rushing to catch a train.