Boardman: Amtrak Commits to End Food and Beverage Losses

[rrdude]

Lots of good ideas here, and I'm quite confident that the operations and budget staff at Amtrak have considered some, if not most of them. So why no major breakthroughs?

Amtrak is "hamstrung" with a number of challenges that land-based restaurants typically are not, and airlines never had to contend with.

Work rules and union rules trump almost every "good idea" here, that relate to outsourcing any aspect of this.

The union(s) are fiercely opposed, and will fight to the Nth degree any change that would bring in Aramark, Sodexho-Marriott, Compass Group, Delaware North, etc., etc. onboard the trains.

It took forever for Amtrak to outsource the commissary functions to Aramark(?). Railroad Retirement, is one of the major benefits of working for Amtrak, (or any RR) With each job that is transferred to an outsourced company, it's one less voting union member, one less member paying dues...........

And, I believe no matter WHO works ON a train, if that is there primary job, they will be forced to pay in to the Railroad Retirement, which in essence forces the salary upward. So it's not just an EZ switch to a third party, with lower wages, and better inventory control, to help reduce the dining car loses.

I think the installation of properly configured POS systems on all trains, and integration to inventory and ridership, AND proper data mining, there is probably another 2-5% that Amtrak can cut from their actual food cost. (Better purchasing, less theft, less waste, increase in sales) Additionally, another 1-2% could come off labor, but this has to be managed. No "control system" by itself will result in any savings, unless someone actually looks at the data/reports, and then takes action based on what the data reads.

With "order at the table" POS (either TA-Diner, or passenger ordering) dining times can be reduced, which means that table-turns can be increased, (as long as the kitchen can keep up). Tableside ordering has been able to show as much as a 25% increase in table-turns. Now, this only means something if you have people waiting for the tables. But it would certainly help on LD trains, during the peak travel month.

TA-Diner employees would be able to handle proportionally more tables, (although they are stretched thin now, so the incremental increases here are smaller than normal) and make more tips! I've years of first-hand experience in seeing this in real life.

But technology alone will not eliminate the losses in the dining car, but it is an important contributor, and one that pays (if managed correctly) a fast, and real ROI.

 

[CHamilton]

The "cashless" idea may be more feasible if services like this catch on, despite the inconvenience and cost.

American Express Serve Goes After The “Under-Banked” With Prepaid Cards You Load With Cash In Stores

American Express’ digital wallet platform Serve, which began its life as something of a PayPal competitor online, before signing deals with operators for some sort of mobile play, is today returning to something the company knows best: plastic cards. With the newly revamped Serve launching today, consumers can purchase cards online or in-store, then add money to their card via direct deposit, free cash loads in stores, bank transfers, or by linking a debit or credit card to the service. The card will work anywhere American Express is accepted, including at point-of-sale, ATMs and on e-commerce sites.
The physical cards themselves were previously available, but users would first have to sign up online to receive the card in the mail. While that option is still available, by placing the cards on retailers’ shelves, and allowing them to load them with cash at checkout, Serve is able to target those who don’t have regular access to a computer.
Beginning in November, consumers will be able to load their prepaid Serve cards by taking cash to the register at over 14,000 participating CVS/pharmacy and 7-Eleven stores where the cards will be now sold, in addition to online. By the end of 2013, American Express says that number will grow to 20,000 stores, including not only CVS and 7-Eleven, but also Family Dollar, Office Depot, Walgreens and Duane Reade stores in the U.S.
The company emphasizes that its prepaid card (purchased for $2.95 in retail stores, but free through year-end and online) can be loaded with cash for free, versus the 41% of consumers who currently pay fees of $3.00 to $3.99 to reload their cards today. Instead, Serve will charge a $1 monthly fee as of Dec. 3, 2013, which is waived for direct deposits of $500 or more.

 

[Ryan]

Not actually the way it works. Sorry -- have you *been* on many LD trains?

That's pretty funny, a guest poster telling the Amtrak manager of a LD train how things work on his train.

 

[jis]

Not actually the way it works. Sorry -- have you *been* on many LD trains?

That's pretty funny, a guest poster telling the Amtrak manager of a LD train how things work on his train.

That is what I thought so too Well it is good to have such moment of levity though.

 

[OBS]

Not actually the way it works. Sorry -- have you *been* on many LD trains?

That's pretty funny, a guest poster telling the Amtrak manager of a LD train how things work on his train.

Unfortunately, as with many things at Amtrak, you have theory (rules) and then you have reality...

 

[Ryan]

In some cases, sure. In dining car hours, EB_OBS pretty much has it right (except of course where a train reaches its terminal during or just after a mealtime).

 

[Nathanael]

I think the installation of properly configured POS systems on all trains, and integration to inventory and ridership, AND proper data mining, there is probably another 2-5% that Amtrak can cut from their actual food cost. (Better purchasing, less theft, less waste, increase in sales) Additionally, another 1-2% could come off labor, but this has to be managed. No "control system" by itself will result in any savings, unless someone actually looks at the data/reports, and then takes action based on what the data reads.

With "order at the table" POS (either TA-Diner, or passenger ordering) dining times can be reduced, which means that table-turns can be increased, (as long as the kitchen can keep up). Tableside ordering has been able to show as much as a 25% increase in table-turns. Now, this only means something if you have people waiting for the tables. But it would certainly help on LD trains, during the peak travel month.

Even outside peak travel months, there are frequently people waiting for the tables in the diners, for lunch and dinner anyway. (Breakfast seems less busy). I'm not 100% sure that paperwork the limiting factor in all cases -- some crews simply seem sulky -- but if it really could turn 25% more tables, that's 25% more revenue, which is probably enough to get to break-even.
As for telling the OBS manager how things work on the train -- uh, there are too many times when people trying to get lunch at 2 PM, or trying to get dinner at 8:30 PM, are simply turned away (with tables empty), and this is not just when approaching terminals. I've seen it repeatedly.

(And then there's the Lake Shore Limited, which never serves dinner eastbound to New York, even when running late, and even closes the *cafe* at *Albany*. In that case, it appears to be a management decision! A stupid one!)

Presumably EB_OBS maintains the hours he describes on *his* train. Does EB stand for "Empire Builder"? Come to think of it, when I've been on the Empire Builder, the crews *did* keep going the whole time. And they were very efficient at turning over the tables, too. But that was NOT true on the rest of the network. Have we mentioned before that there is service inconsistency across Amtrak? I think we have.

 

[benjibear]

I know on the CL out of Chicago, they came around while still in Chicago for dinner reservations. I took the second to last reservations and the guy behind me took the last. A goup behind them were complaining and there was a an entire coach car he didn't even go into. They made announcements that the dinner reservations were full. When I went to dinner, half the car was empty. I was in there over an hour and it was very slow. The diner never did fill up. Maybe this is SOP for the CL but I could see them being able to turn more people then what they actually did.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I know on the CL out of Chicago, they came around while still in Chicago for dinner reservations. I took the second to last reservations and the guy behind me took the last. A goup behind them were complaining and there was a an entire coach car he didn't even go into. They made announcements that the dinner reservations were full. When I went to dinner, half the car was empty. I was in there over an hour and it was very slow. The diner never did fill up. Maybe this is SOP for the CL but I could see them being able to turn more people then what they actually did.

Number 30 has a reputation here at AU for bad Dining Car service - maybe the crew is tired after the quick turn around in CHI?

That is one of the problems Amtrak is going to smack into head first if they try to speed things up. Management can say all sorts of things and make all sorts of claims and promises, but unless they can actually implement changes on the 'front lines' nothing will change much.

BTW, I've found that 'Western based' crews generally are much more professional and care more about customer service than 'Eastern based' crews.

 

[SubwayNut]

(And then there's the Lake Shore Limited, which never serves dinner eastbound to New York, even when running late, and even closes the *cafe* at *Albany*. In that case, it appears to be a management decision! A stupid one!)

That's because the cafe car doesn't even go to New York, its the last car of the Boston Section! It is sent off to Boston where it reopens and provides food service (including dinner eastbound, lunch westbound to the Boston Sleeping Car Passengers).

The one time I was flat out denied a meal was trying to have Lunch on the eastbound Lake Shore when I missed the attendant (if he passed through at all) when I was enjoying an early Syracuse arrival and then went to ask about lunch to be told all slots were taken and that they didn't have enough food.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I know on the CL out of Chicago, they came around while still in Chicago for dinner reservations. I took the second to last reservations and the guy behind me took the last. A goup behind them were complaining and there was a an entire coach car he didn't even go into. They made announcements that the dinner reservations were full. When I went to dinner, half the car was empty. I was in there over an hour and it was very slow. The diner never did fill up. Maybe this is SOP for the CL but I could see them being able to turn more people then what they actually did.

Number 30 has a reputation here at AU for bad Dining Car service - maybe the crew is tired after the quick turn around in CHI?

That is one of the problems Amtrak is going to smack into head first if they try to speed things up. Management can say all sorts of things and make all sorts of claims and promises, but unless they can actually implement changes on the 'front lines' nothing will change much.

BTW, I've found that 'Western based' crews generally are much more professional and care more about customer service than 'Eastern based' crews.

I've been on the Cap Many Times in Both Directions and find that on #29, as Scott mentioned, the Service tends to be OK to Great but on #30, especially in the Diner, it's Generally Less than Good! I always Eat Dinner and Breakfast in the Diner on #30 and Sometimes have the "Secret" Brunch h34r: (Limited Menu) that isn't Announced, it seems to be for those "In the Know!"! :angry:

I'll be on #30 this Sunday (10/13) from CHI-WAS and Will Post a Review of the Service, it will be Interesting to see if they are Still Denying People Slots in the Diner and Keeping the Brunch Secret because they are in a Hurry to Clean Up and Hit the Platform Running Soon as the Train hits the Stops in WAS!!! :angry:

 

[Anderson]

I think the installation of properly configured POS systems on all trains, and integration to inventory and ridership, AND proper data mining, there is probably another 2-5% that Amtrak can cut from their actual food cost. (Better purchasing, less theft, less waste, increase in sales) Additionally, another 1-2% could come off labor, but this has to be managed. No "control system" by itself will result in any savings, unless someone actually looks at the data/reports, and then takes action based on what the data reads.

With "order at the table" POS (either TA-Diner, or passenger ordering) dining times can be reduced, which means that table-turns can be increased, (as long as the kitchen can keep up). Tableside ordering has been able to show as much as a 25% increase in table-turns. Now, this only means something if you have people waiting for the tables. But it would certainly help on LD trains, during the peak travel month.

Even outside peak travel months, there are frequently people waiting for the tables in the diners, for lunch and dinner anyway. (Breakfast seems less busy). I'm not 100% sure that paperwork the limiting factor in all cases -- some crews simply seem sulky -- but if it really could turn 25% more tables, that's 25% more revenue, which is probably enough to get to break-even.
As for telling the OBS manager how things work on the train -- uh, there are too many times when people trying to get lunch at 2 PM, or trying to get dinner at 8:30 PM, are simply turned away (with tables empty), and this is not just when approaching terminals. I've seen it repeatedly.

(And then there's the Lake Shore Limited, which never serves dinner eastbound to New York, even when running late, and even closes the *cafe* at *Albany*. In that case, it appears to be a management decision! A stupid one!)

Presumably EB_OBS maintains the hours he describes on *his* train. Does EB stand for "Empire Builder"? Come to think of it, when I've been on the Empire Builder, the crews *did* keep going the whole time. And they were very efficient at turning over the tables, too. But that was NOT true on the rest of the network. Have we mentioned before that there is service inconsistency across Amtrak? I think we have.

25% won't get you close to break-even in the diners. If I'm not mistaken, CR in the diners tends to be somewhere around 50%.

Edit: The ALB situation is much the same as WAS: They lose power for a bit on the LSL, so they shut the diner/cafe. They also close cafes from NWK to somewhere north of NYP.

 

[jis]

Has anyone at Amtrak ever tried coming up with some reasonable incentive scheme to incentivise the Diner/Cafe crew to try to sell as much as they can? Or would that be something that is highly looked down upon by the Unions or some such?

 

[rrdude]

Has anyone at Amtrak ever tried coming up with some reasonable incentive scheme to incentivise the Diner/Cafe crew to try to sell as much as they can? Or would that be something that is highly looked down upon by the Unions or some such?

Some crews would certainly try to "game the system", somehow, show more sleepers than actually ate, as "eaten" for free. While in turn, pocket the cash that the coach pax pas for the meal...

many, many ways

 

[I always rode the Southern]

I know on the CL out of Chicago, they came around while still in Chicago for dinner reservations. I took the second to last reservations and the guy behind me took the last. A goup behind them were complaining and there was a an entire coach car he didn't even go into. They made announcements that the dinner reservations were full. When I went to dinner, half the car was empty. I was in there over an hour and it was very slow. The diner never did fill up. Maybe this is SOP for the CL but I could see them being able to turn more people then what they actually did.

Number 30 has a reputation here at AU for bad Dining Car service - maybe the crew is tired after the quick turn around in CHI?

That is one of the problems Amtrak is going to smack into head first if they try to speed things up. Management can say all sorts of things and make all sorts of claims and promises, but unless they can actually implement changes on the 'front lines' nothing will change much.

BTW, I've found that 'Western based' crews generally are much more professional and care more about customer service than 'Eastern based' crews.

And my experience has been the opposite. I've had good service on the western trains, but not the exceptional. On the cap westbound I have had one of the best dining service and food ever; on the cap eastbound from Pgh to Was, I have had the most exceptional conductor EVER; on the silvers I have had 2 outstanding and memorable SCA's ever, and though I love the coast starlight, the staff could learn a little about customer service from the auto train crew.

To sum it up, the western trains, meh.! All the memorable crews for me have been in the east.

 

[GUEST]

I know on the CL out of Chicago, they came around while still in Chicago for dinner reservations. I took the second to last reservations and the guy behind me took the last. A goup behind them were complaining and there was a an entire coach car he didn't even go into. They made announcements that the dinner reservations were full. When I went to dinner, half the car was empty. I was in there over an hour and it was very slow. The diner never did fill up. Maybe this is SOP for the CL but I could see them being able to turn more people then what they actually did.

Number 30 has a reputation here at AU for bad Dining Car service - maybe the crew is tired after the quick turn around in CHI?

That is one of the problems Amtrak is going to smack into head first if they try to speed things up. Management can say all sorts of things and make all sorts of claims and promises, but unless they can actually implement changes on the 'front lines' nothing will change much.

BTW, I've found that 'Western based' crews generally are much more professional and care more about customer service than 'Eastern based' crews.

And my experience has been the opposite. I've had good service on the western trains, but not the exceptional. On the cap westbound I have had one of the best dining service and food ever; on the cap eastbound from Pgh to Was, I have had the most exceptional conductor EVER; on the silvers I have had 2 outstanding and memorable SCA's ever, and though I love the coast starlight, the staff could learn a little about customer service from the auto train crew.

To sum it up, the western trains, meh.! All the memorable crews for me have been in the east.

I won't pick one over the other, but the service I have experienced has been anywhere from excellent to mediocre on both sides of the country.

The Dining car service I remember as the least courteous was a server on the EB who slammed plates down, never looked me in the eye, and got 3 out of 4 orders for the table wrong. She was slamming things down all over the car all through the time I was there.

 

[steve smith]

every time we have heard this refrain in the past, it meant no more china plates, no more silverware---it meant microwaved pre-made meals----it meant only one cook on duty and two waiters for the entire dining car----in short, it has meant taking everything away that made the on-board dining experience fun and pleasant.....they just do not GET IT----nice dining is a PERK for the first class passengers who pay ridiculously high rates for the sleeping cars. Or it may be a plan....make sleeping car class less attractive and then fewer people use it, and then maybe it can be eliminated. After all, THAT was teh plan followed by the private railroads in the 1960s as they sought to discourage people from taking the trians, so they could ask the ICC to let them drop routes.

 

[AlanB]

I know on the CL out of Chicago, they came around while still in Chicago for dinner reservations. I took the second to last reservations and the guy behind me took the last. A goup behind them were complaining and there was a an entire coach car he didn't even go into. They made announcements that the dinner reservations were full. When I went to dinner, half the car was empty. I was in there over an hour and it was very slow. The diner never did fill up. Maybe this is SOP for the CL but I could see them being able to turn more people then what they actually did.

Full doesn't mean that all the tables are occupied. Full means that based upon the number of crew members working the car, they have reached the specified capacity that they can handle based upon the guidelines they're given by management.

 

[AlanB]

They also close cafes from NWK to somewhere north of NYP.

Not any more. They're allowed to close at NWK, but they must be reopened by the time they pass Sunnyside Yard going north or RR east. Southbound they're not supposed to close until past New Rochelle, and they must be open by NWK.

 

[AlanB]

every time we have heard this refrain in the past, it meant no more china plates, no more silverware---it meant microwaved pre-made meals----it meant only one cook on duty and two waiters for the entire dining car----in short, it has meant taking everything away that made the on-board dining experience fun and pleasant.....they just do not GET IT----nice dining is a PERK for the first class passengers who pay ridiculously high rates for the sleeping cars. Or it may be a plan....make sleeping car class less attractive and then fewer people use it, and then maybe it can be eliminated. After all, THAT was teh plan followed by the private railroads in the 1960s as they sought to discourage people from taking the trians, so they could ask the ICC to let them drop routes.

One doesn't buy new dining cars and new sleepers if one wants to eliminate them.

 

[Big Iron]

Has anyone at Amtrak ever tried coming up with some reasonable incentive scheme to incentivise the Diner/Cafe crew to try to sell as much as they can? Or would that be something that is highly looked down upon by the Unions or some such?

There was a sentence in the original post stating that Amtrak would establish metrics to measure sales effectiveness of the service attendants. To me that means that there will be some sort of "sales goals" that the Diner staff will need to meet which could lead to monetary incentives or punitive measures if the goals are met/not met. Just my read of that sentence.

I'm in a sales/production role and metrics is just another term for measuring against some performance goal.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Has anyone at Amtrak ever tried coming up with some reasonable incentive scheme to incentivise the Diner/Cafe crew to try to sell as much as they can? Or would that be something that is highly looked down upon by the Unions or some such?

There was a sentence in the original post stating that Amtrak would establish metrics to measure sales effectiveness of the service attendants. To me that means that there will be some sort of "sales goals" that the Diner staff will need to meet which could lead to monetary incentives or punitive measures if the goals are met/not met. Just my read of that sentence.
I'm in a sales/production role and metrics is just another term for measuring against some performance goal.

The challenge, as I see it, will be to get the union to go along with such a scheme. The only way I see that happening is if its all 'carrots' and no 'sticks.' Which means the good employees will make more money and the employees who have a bad attitude will just get a worse attitude. And the program wil fall short of its goals. Just MHO...

 

[OBS]

Has anyone at Amtrak ever tried coming up with some reasonable incentive scheme to incentivise the Diner/Cafe crew to try to sell as much as they can? Or would that be something that is highly looked down upon by the Unions or some such?

There was a sentence in the original post stating that Amtrak would establish metrics to measure sales effectiveness of the service attendants. To me that means that there will be some sort of "sales goals" that the Diner staff will need to meet which could lead to monetary incentives or punitive measures if the goals are met/not met. Just my read of that sentence.
I'm in a sales/production role and metrics is just another term for measuring against some performance goal.

The challenge, as I see it, will be to get the union to go along with such a scheme. The only way I see that happening is if its all 'carrots' and no 'sticks.' Which means the good employees will make more money and the employees who have a bad attitude will just get a worse attitude. And the program wil fall short of its goals. Just MHO...

(Un)Fortunately, you are giving our union a little too much credit...I think many of the good, hard working employees would appreciate an incentive (reward) for their hard work.

 

[Tokkyu40]

All told, I could imagine very significant improvements in the diner "bottom line" if the dining car staff spent all their time (except for their breaks) serving customers, rather than closing the dining car more than half the day in order to do paperwork and inventory. I don't know whether that would be enough to break even, but it might be enough that the cafe car profits would cancel it out.

The dining car is not closed half the day. On most LD trains the hours of service are as follows;

breakfast - 6:30am - 10:00am

lunch - 11:30am-3:00pm

dinner - 5:00pm - 9:30pm

So that's open for 11.5 hours during the day and closed for cleanup, setup and breaks only 3.5 hours.

That's close enough to half. There are 24 hours in a day.

There are people who want to have a snack at midnight before they get off or after they board; there are those who usually have brunch about 10:30; there are 4 time zones where peoples normal dinner time may be anywhere from 6:00 to 9:00 pm, meaning an Oklahoman may want to sit down in California about 11:00 pm.

Amtrak marketing consultant Bruce Richardson ran a test on the Sunset Limited in 1999-2000. Certain dining cars were staffed and open 24 hours a day. The customers liked it because they could grab a meal whenever they wanted, the crews liked it because they didn't have the panic rush at meal times and the unions liked it because it meant two more workers per train. And the extra revenue and reduced overtime brought the average losses down from 9 dollars to 66 cents per meal.

The only ones who didn't like it were management. Amtrak accounting makes no connetion between costs and revenues, so the extra workers didn't equate to increased sales on the books.

Electronic ordering and modern bookkeeping on the train would help, but if you want Amtrak to become self sufficient, Amtrak needs an accounting system that accurately measures costs and revenues of each service.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I'm giving the union too much credit? It seems to me we are basically saying the same thing when it comes to 'carrot' based incentive programs. Notice the similarities in the added emphasis in each of our quotes below:

The challenge, as I see it, will be to get the union to go along with such a scheme. The only way I see that happening is if its all 'carrots' and no 'sticks.' Which means the good employees will make more money and the employees who have a bad attitude will just get a worse attitude. And the program wil fall short of its goals. Just MHO...

(Un)Fortunately, you are giving our union a little too much credit...I think many of the good, hard working employees would appreciate an incentive (reward) for their hard work.

The problem are the 'problem' employees - the ones that can ruin teamwork and moral for an entire crew. They will look for ways to benefit from a 'carrot based' incentive program with as little effort on their part as possible. Furthermore, many employees, not just at Amtrak, who are problems tend to prefer to figure out ways to try to sabotage programs desigined to boost productivity. To make matters worse at Amtrak, your union will defend them at hearings, even if they have been accused of illegal actions which they have been caught red handed doing. That means management has a pretty high burden of proof to meet in dealing with such employees.