Beatin Dead Horse Subject - Ice in Sleepers

[JayPea]

We had either ice available on our trip Boston-Seattle or SCA'S who were more than happy to give us ice. We had great customer service all week. I almost feel guilty!

 

[PaulM]

Based on the fact that only one of the 26 posts so far mentioned the FDA, and #19 at that, I'm guessing that the ice situation was merely another of the sleeper service downgrades, and that Amtrak relented after a lot of complaints.

 

[Sauve850]

Hey Im number #19. The thinking of the SCA and the FDA was too many people with lets say dirty hands digging in the ice. I can buy that scenario totally. When in the Acela or Metropolitan lounges I fill my small cooler to the brim with ice or fill at hotel before heading to station. It lasts a night and most of the day or visa versa. So for trips on the CZ, EB , etc. cross country I need ice second day. I have carried vials of meds that need ice and other times just need a bucket of ice to chill drinks.

Most SCA's are great but there are a few bad ones. I do not tolerate a Larry type SCA no matter what.

 

[Ryan]

Based on the fact that only one of the 26 posts so far mentioned the FDA, and #19 at that, I'm guessing that the ice situation was merely another of the sleeper service downgrades, and that Amtrak relented after a lot of complaints.

You would guess incorrectly. Let's jump in the wayback machine to 2009, shall we?

I've worked in the food service industry for over 20 years. Over time ice has come under more and more scrutiny by health inspectors. Regulations have increased and ice is now considered a food product. Sanitation, cleanliness and handling of ice and ice bins and ice makers and even the scoop are just as important as cooking meats to the correct temperature or maintaining proper refrigeration or freezer temperatures.

Amtrak has for many years offered ice to sleeping car passengers. Early on the attendant had to make a run to either the diner or lounge car to get the ice. A few years back it was suggested that ice actually be kept in the sleeping car itself so attendants would be more likely to offer and provide ice to passengers because it would be quickly accessible. The Superliner II cars did initially have that ice drawer underneath the area that is now the coffee station. The FDA soon balked and said that the ice cannot be kept in a public area for anyone to access for themselves. This has been a normal health department policy for years in many locales. Amtrak has only the FDA to answer to thus local regulations don't apply. The FDA's code of Federal Regulations is what most local health department policies are based upon anyway.

Anyway a couple years ago FDA inspectors began clamping down on the ice policy and recording critical violations if the ice was not kept out of public areas. Amtrak's solution was to make the sleeping car attendants keep the ice chests in their sleeping quarters. The ice chests don't really fit in the end lockers and during peak season when all the rooms are occupied there really just isn't anywhere else to keep that ice chest. Well recently the FDA has seen the ice being kept in the attendants room and they are not happy with that solution either. It's in someone's living space after all. I've just recently met Amtrak's Superintendent of Public Health and he is working on a long-term solution. In the meantime we have what we have. Inconsistent adherence to a policy that no one is happy with.

In regards to the ice chest being kept in the attendants room, I have had several experiences that indicate to me that it's the wrong answer to the problem. I've had attendants who've had personal items stolen from their rooms because they cannot secure their room and against policy are allowing passengers in to get ice for themselves. I've had female attendants have male passengers open their doors and come in for ice or ask for ice in the middle of the night. Now there are attendants who will not keep ice at all if they have to keep it in their rooms. I'm quite aware there are attendants who know the policy and yet keep the ice out in the hallway until they see a manager or supervisor coming, then they'll move it. Attendants aren't telling passengers they can even get ice because it's become a hassle for them. They forget they used to have to go through half the train to get ice.

Good sleeping car attendants should be informing their passengers what's available to them and some measure of consistency from attendant to attendant and train to train is obviously desired. Amtrak is responsible for coming up with a solution that is workable for the sleeping car attendants, benefits the passenger and is acceptable to the FDA. No small order by any means.

This ended up being much longer than I expected. My only desire is that passengers know what they can expect on the train and that sleeping car attendants are offering ice service and following Amtrak and FDA guidelines.

 

[TinCan782]

Several years ago, had an SCA (name escapes me) on the SWC that was really adamant about no "self serve" ice. I think I got two beverage cups worth for the night out of LA!

In contrast, on a recent trip on the SL (422 TE sleeper), we had ice in the ice drawer the whole time. It was replenished at each extended stop.

 

[Asher]

Good point about the contamination with the ice. When I mentioned the SLA by name I should also say that the only time I heard anyone ask him for ice was after QUIET TIME had been announced and that seemed more than a little too much. I guess we all like convenience, but if everyone in a car ask for ice it would be a pretty long day for a SLA

 

[MikefromCrete]

I never knew so many people were so passionate about ice!

 

[Ronbo]

To paraphrase? the great Bob Dylan:

Oh, Mama, can this really be the end

To be stuck onboard an Amtrak train

With no ice again

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If the FDA wants to mandate that SCA's warn everyone that publicly accessible ice is extremely toxic and is likely to kill anyone who consumes any then so be it. If the FDA wants to prevent kids and adults with compromised immune systems from using the ice I'm fine with that as well. Meanwhile those of us who choose to consume the ice despite any risks should be allowed to do so without any further intervention. I'll be happy to sign a document saying I'm aware Amtrak's toxic ice is going to kill me six times over before I reach my destination if that makes the bureaucrats happy.

 

[jis]

Yeah but then the relevant question to ask is will you then turn around and sue anyway when something bad happens. You personally may not but many typical person are quite likely to. That is the problem. A few bad apples make life miserable for the rest.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yeah but then the relevant question to ask is will you then turn around and sue anyway when something bad happens. You personally may not but many typical person are quite likely to. That is the problem. A few bad apples make life miserable for the rest.

Questionable consumer lawsuits rarely go anywhere. Most of the examples that have been sent to me as proof of widespread abuse turned out to be nothing more than fabricated nonsense meant to appeal to emotion rather than logic. Other examples were summarily dismissed or severely reduced on appeal. A few examples turned out to be genuine abuse but these were the rare exception rather than the rule. Most consumers can't fund a questionable lawsuit to completion. The depend on the lawyers to fund it and lawyers are only going to fund a lawsuit they believe has a high chance of success.

The closest I've been to a civil lawsuit was when I was in the process of boarding a city bus just as it was hit from behind by another vehicle. The bus was shoved several feet in the span of a second but luckily I was able to hold on without falling between the bus and the curb. I was lucky to avoid any serious harm, and it certainly wasn't the bus company's fault, but even if I had made a claim any payout would have come from a desire to avoid the world's most expensive judicial system rather than a desire to pacify a powerful legal adversary.

 

[andersone]

We took the CZ from GBB to SLC and back two weeks ago. On the way out Robert got us ice anytime we wanted and on the way back Debbie Caldwell, the best SCA I have ever traveled with did the same. In my fifty years of train travel I have never seen anyone keep a restroom cleaner and be more attentive to our need. On return the first thing I did was use the web form to sing her praises. If every SCA were as good as she is folks would line up to ride Amtrak.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

We took the CZ from GBB to SLC and back two weeks ago. On the way out Robert got us ice anytime we wanted and on the way back Debbie Caldwell, the best SCA I have ever traveled with did the same. In my fifty years of train travel I have never seen anyone keep a restroom cleaner and be more attentive to our need. On return the first thing I did was use the web form to sing her praises. If every SCA were as good as she is folks would line up to ride Amtrak.

What about the folks who ride in coach? Even if every SCA was as good as yours 90% of the passengers would still have a disgusting bathroom.

 

[PVD]

Since the ice issue results in no added staffing or hours of service, and the ice is still there, regardless of how obtained, it doesn't seem like a cheesy cost cutting issue as some have tried to make it out as. You could solve the problem permanently in a retrofit of the sleepers by adding a small on demand crushed ice dispenser like the one found on a refrigerator. That however, requires spending money, also, they require regular sanitizing and maintenance including filter changes. Water supply already exists at the "pantry" area.