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sunchaser

Conductor
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
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Location
Salt Lake City, Ut
I was wondering if anyone has any idea on the time frame involved in repairs if a car needs to go to Beech Grove?

Examples I am thinking of is the A/C going out, or the toilets being non functional, & not being able to repair them in the yard.

Also, along the same lines, does Amtrak ever pull any sleepers such as the ones from the EB, CZ, SWC(?) to upgrade the toilet system? Or are they waiting for a major issue or refurbishment to fix them?

I realize they are very few spare cars, but I was wondering if anyone knows if that stuff is included in some form of routine maintenance?

It seems that the majority of the complaints are about A/C & the toilets, & the staff being apathetic at best about the issues.
 
I thought I saw someone mention a couple months per refurbishment. I was wondering if the newly refurbished cars that are expected in the near future might be better used as replacements so that other cars can get their own refurbishment rather than immediately starting additional frequencies or routes. I'm just brainstorming here, not condoning one use over another.
 
I'd be shocked if a car was sent to BG for either toilets or AC work. Shockingly so, that work can and should be done in the field, and used to be done (well AC was, n/a before retention toilets)at shops en route.

BG is usually, I say "usually" reserved for overhauls, wrecks, or other special work. They do a heavy share of regular maintenance too, but like I said, I'd be surprised to see a car B/O to BG just for AC work........
 
Sunchaser,

I believe that all bi-level cars eventually make their way to Beech Grove for their annual inspections that require 2 weeks of downtime. The 92 day inspections are performed in Chicago, LA, possibly Seattle, NY, DC, and Hialeah & Sanford Fl. At one time they could also be done in New Orleans, but I think that's been stopped. I'm not sure if the single level cars go to Beech Grove for their annual inspections, or if they are done in Bear, Delaware with the exception of the Viewliners which if they don't go to BG, would be done in Hialeah.

During the annual inspections, brakes are changed, seat cushions are replaced, as well as other safety work being done. A broken toilet could be replaced, but they would not do a major thing like upgrading the toilet system during an annual. On the other hand, a car that has been selected for a heavy overhaul might well get its annual inspection while it was in the shop.

The rebuilding of most of the Superliner I sleepers took about 3 months per car from start to finish. That program was stopped before all of the Superliner I's were done and has not been restarted to date; but thankfully they got all but a handful through the rebuilding program before it got cancelled.

It's my understanding that all the wrecked Superliners that are being restored to service thanks to the Stimulus are not only having all the damage fixed to the frame of the car, but are also getting rebuilt inside to the new standards. That includes all cars, not just the sleepers, which would mean that there will be a few coaches running around with the new style bathrooms.

AC work & replacement should occur at an endpoint station whenever a problem has been reported. The problem is that all too often there are no spare cars available and the repairs will take longer than the crews have time to do the work. So this often results in slapping a Band-Aid on and hoping that the car makes it to the next yard before failing. An example is on the Empire Builder, the cars arriving into Seattle & Portland in the morning go right back out in the afternoon. So if they don't have either the time or the parts, a failed compressor could go right back out to Chicago.

Chicago typically has more time, and more replacement cars, but there have been some issues with the quality of their work there. They are however also understaffed for the amount of work that they have; so that doesn't help either. LA however seems to do very good work and at least in my experience, there seems to be far less failures of equipment out of LA.

But also consider that there are 432 active Superliner cars in the fleet right now. That's a lot of cars needing a lot of work in a limited number of shops with a limited amount of time to work on them, as most are needed for daily operations. If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say that maybe Amtrak during the summer months can have at most 40 Superliners out of service for inspections, standby spares, repairs, and rebuilds and still meet demand.

So if Chicago has 3 trains arrive on any given day each with 1 car where one of the AC compressors has failed, it's a pretty safe bet that they aren't going to be able to get all 3 cars fixed in time for their next run. That means pulling a spare to send out. And there isn't an unlimited amount of spares, so if they sent out 3 or 4 in the days immediately preceding, there is a chance that one train may well go out without a fully functional AC system.

Please understand that I'm not condoning this practice; just stating what can happen. If the bean counters would let Amtrak hire a few more people, if parts were easier to come by, if a few of the lazy workers were gone, and so on; then things would be different. And there is enough blame here to go around IMHO, it's not all one area or aspect of things although money does enter into many of the aspects.

But frankly I think that the biggest issue here remains the fact that Amtrak needs more equipment. They are running what they have into the ground to meet the demand. People have compared things to VIA around here more than once. And yes, I do give full credit to VIA for running those 60, 70, & 80 year old cars. But those cars also get major TLC from VIA. They don't come into the yard in the morning and go back out in the evening day after day. They get well rested and lots of work in between runs, and even then VIA still has equipment failures. They don't have as many as Amtrak, but then they also don't have as many runs or cars either.

If Amtrak were told tomorrow that they could order 100 new Superliner's, personally were I running the show, I'd take 25 Superliners of various types and assign them permanently to spare duties. Then I'd look to see what routes should get extra cars and what new routes could be started thanks to the other 75 cars increasing the size of the fleet.
 
:hi: Interesting comments Alan! That might make a good topic for discusion, if you were made CEO of Amtrak with all the money you needed (not wanted,needed!)what would you do to improve service/increase routes etc. Everyone has opinions, I personally am not opposed to HSR but feel it should be a seperate budget item by itself so all the money appropriated by the House of Lords, er Congress went to Amtrak for Regional and LD routes!My pet project is lounge cars for first class pax like the CS has with the PPC, more sleepers and improved bathrooms on all cars! Of course more OBS would be needed, and the schedules massaged to get better calling times and OTP on all routes! (Amtrak seems to have clout with the RRs while Obama and Amtrak Joe are running things, let's use it!Delay is death in politics! ;)
 
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The Viewliner situation in Chicago is something that really bugs me.

There are no spares here, so when a car is bad-ordered and requires a repair that takes more than a day, it's likely that something will go out without a sleeper. What this really means is that 448 leaves without a sleeper somewhat frequently (maybe 1 in every 12 departures). The Cardinal will occasionally leave without a sleeper, though if the 5000 car is bad-ordered and cannot be repaired somewhat quickly, the default action is to take 448's sleeper. If one of 48's sleepers cannot go out, 448's sleeper is usually the replacement car, though this doesn't happen frequently enough that the BOS sleepers are in the proper maintenance rotation via NYP.

The BOS sleepers are seldom swapped with the NYP sleepers, which means that the BOS sleepers aren't rotated through NYP and Hialeah like the other Viewliners.

Out of BOS, 449 will occasionally run without at sleeper. When this happens, 49 will sometimes leave NYP with a third sleeper for BOS pax to board at ALB. Unfortunately, Sunnyside doesn't always have that third sleeper.

Until CHI gets a spare, or an extra crew is hired to swap sleepers between sections of the Lake Shore, I will not be booking sleeper space on 448/449. I can't count on the sleeper actually running.
 
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Actually that's exactly contrary to what happened to me last summer after the VIA strike changed my plans. We ended up on the Builder connecting with the Lake Shore. Because our plans were last minute, we had to book into the 448 sleeper, switching to coach in Albany.

We had decided at the last minute that we would try to upgrade to the one remaining Bedroom on train #48; it was still available as we went through Milwaukee. When we got to Chicago, we went to try to do the upgrade and the sleeper was gone. About an hour later we learned why the sleeper was gone, Amtrak had blanked the 11 sleeper with problems. The Bedroom that had been in the 11 car.

We were quite happy that we hadn't booked into that car or we would have spent the night in coach. Instead, we were quite happy in our Boston bound roomette and our switch to coach the next day in ALB.

I do agree however that Chicago needs a protect Viewliner, and frankly with the lighter load on the Viewliner fleet, I'm surprised that there isn't one. The plans have always called for one, and now that more are actually available, again it surprises me that Amtrak still isn't keeping one in Chicago.
 
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Sunchaser,

I believe that all bi-level cars eventually make their way to Beech Grove for their annual inspections that require 2 weeks of downtime. The 92 day inspections are performed in Chicago, LA, possibly Seattle, NY, DC, and Hialeah & Sanford Fl. At one time they could also be done in New Orleans, but I think that's been stopped. I'm not sure if the single level cars go to Beech Grove for their annual inspections, or if they are done in Bear, Delaware with the exception of the Viewliners which if they don't go to BG, would be done in Hialeah.

During the annual inspections, brakes are changed, seat cushions are replaced, as well as other safety work being done. A broken toilet could be replaced, but they would not do a major thing like upgrading the toilet system during an annual. On the other hand, a car that has been selected for a heavy overhaul might well get its annual inspection while it was in the shop.

The rebuilding of most of the Superliner I sleepers took about 3 months per car from start to finish. That program was stopped before all of the Superliner I's were done and has not been restarted to date; but thankfully they got all but a handful through the rebuilding program before it got cancelled.

It's my understanding that all the wrecked Superliners that are being restored to service thanks to the Stimulus are not only having all the damage fixed to the frame of the car, but are also getting rebuilt inside to the new standards. That includes all cars, not just the sleepers, which would mean that there will be a few coaches running around with the new style bathrooms.

AC work & replacement should occur at an endpoint station whenever a problem has been reported. The problem is that all too often there are no spare cars available and the repairs will take longer than the crews have time to do the work. So this often results in slapping a Band-Aid on and hoping that the car makes it to the next yard before failing. An example is on the Empire Builder, the cars arriving into Seattle & Portland in the morning go right back out in the afternoon. So if they don't have either the time or the parts, a failed compressor could go right back out to Chicago.

Chicago typically has more time, and more replacement cars, but there have been some issues with the quality of their work there. They are however also understaffed for the amount of work that they have; so that doesn't help either. LA however seems to do very good work and at least in my experience, there seems to be far less failures of equipment out of LA.

But also consider that there are 432 active Superliner cars in the fleet right now. That's a lot of cars needing a lot of work in a limited number of shops with a limited amount of time to work on them, as most are needed for daily operations. If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say that maybe Amtrak during the summer months can have at most 40 Superliners out of service for inspections, standby spares, repairs, and rebuilds and still meet demand.

So if Chicago has 3 trains arrive on any given day each with 1 car where one of the AC compressors has failed, it's a pretty safe bet that they aren't going to be able to get all 3 cars fixed in time for their next run. That means pulling a spare to send out. And there isn't an unlimited amount of spares, so if they sent out 3 or 4 in the days immediately preceding, there is a chance that one train may well go out without a fully functional AC system.

Please understand that I'm not condoning this practice; just stating what can happen. If the bean counters would let Amtrak hire a few more people, if parts were easier to come by, if a few of the lazy workers were gone, and so on; then things would be different. And there is enough blame here to go around IMHO, it's not all one area or aspect of things although money does enter into many of the aspects.

But frankly I think that the biggest issue here remains the fact that Amtrak needs more equipment. They are running what they have into the ground to meet the demand. People have compared things to VIA around here more than once. And yes, I do give full credit to VIA for running those 60, 70, & 80 year old cars. But those cars also get major TLC from VIA. They don't come into the yard in the morning and go back out in the evening day after day. They get well rested and lots of work in between runs, and even then VIA still has equipment failures. They don't have as many as Amtrak, but then they also don't have as many runs or cars either.

If Amtrak were told tomorrow that they could order 100 new Superliner's, personally were I running the show, I'd take 25 Superliners of various types and assign them permanently to spare duties. Then I'd look to see what routes should get extra cars and what new routes could be started thanks to the other 75 cars increasing the size of the fleet.
Thank you, Alan. That is exactly what I wanted to know. I thought maybe they would go to Beech Grove if it was a major repair, but I guess each yard has the replacement stuff there? I thought maybe that was why it seemed to be fairly consistent equipment issues-that they may not be getting properly repaired. I'm not trying to blame anyone, or start another flame on about equipment, I'm just trying to get a fuller picture. :giggle: Yes, I would vote you in to run the the show! :D I hope someday they solve the equipment shortage issue!!!
 
Actually that's exactly contrary to what happened to me last summer after the VIA strike changed my plans. We ended up on the Builder connecting with the Lake Shore. Because our plans were last minute, we had to book into the 448 sleeper, switching to coach in Albany.

We had decided at the last minute that we would try to upgrade to the one remaining Bedroom on train #48; it was still available as we went through Milwaukee. When we got to Chicago, we went to try to do the upgrade and the sleeper was gone. About an hour later we learned why the sleeper was gone, Amtrak had blanked the 11 sleeper with problems. The Bedroom that had been in the 11 car.

We were quite happy that we hadn't booked into that car or we would have spent the night in coach. Instead, we were quite happy in our Boston bound roomette and our switch to coach the next day in ALB.

I do agree however that Chicago needs a protect Viewliner, and frankly with the lighter load on the Viewliner fleet, I'm surprised that there isn't one. The plans have always called for one, and now that more are actually available, again it surprises me that Amtrak still isn't keeping one in Chicago.
Wow, that was good luck! I've never seen the NYP section go out with one sleeper, though in your case I'm glad it happened.
 
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