I suspect the Silver Star and Capitol Ltd will be marketed as two separate trains whose equipment just happens to run through, with everyone one thrown off at DC, just as they had same day thru operations of the Empire Builder / City of New Orleans, Southwest Chief / Captiol Ltd, and Texas Eagle / City of New Orleans over the decades.
Atlantic Coast (Silver/Palmetto/Carolinian) Service discussion Q4 2023 - 2024
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No kidding...this now-likely change will kinda screw over, to put it bluntly, many NC riders, mostly Triangle-area riders, but others as well. Sigh. Having a single solitary option to get north of D.C. without a train change is ridiculous for such a growing area, especially when the Carolinian is generally bursting at the seams as it is. Yes, I am aware of the S Line plans that should improve travel times + frequencies at least to Richmond and D.C., but those plans are what, 10 years or more from coming to fruition, at least? (I'm talking the whole corridor, not just the starter bit to Wake Forest or whatever that was funded late last year).
I live in the Triangle and much prefer taking the Star to the Northeast rather than the Carolinian. In addition to it being less crowded and having the option of a roommette for those who would like meals + peace, quiet, and space to work en route, the onboard staff have been friendlier and less harried. I don't blame the staff, but the Carolinian is not an altogether pleasant experience at times, especially since it is so consistently delayed. Additionally, the Carolinian just plain takes longer from RGH as it's the "milk train" and stops at more stations than the Star does.
I get the idea that "they must do something to improve superliner availability" but this is going to create challenges and will really bother folks in NC--it can't be just me?!
Although the best of both worlds (I guess) would be for NCDOT to somehow finagle a second daily Carolinian, there aren't current near-term plans for that, and I doubt there's a timeslot up on the NEC either?
jis
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I agree. Actually I believe that irrespective of what happens with the Star it is time to consider doing a second Carolinian, about two hours displaced from the current one. It will require pushing the current one an hour later northbound in order to stay clear of the Star. But it would work otherwise.
As for timeslots on the NEC, there are plenty of those outside of the rush hours. Both on the NEC in general and Hudson Tubes and Penn Station NY in particular.
I don't think they will have enough time to take the train to the yard to service and then bring back to the platform. Whatever they do with the passengers and crew, they will have to service the consist in platform unless they are planning to drastically retime the trains.
Given the lack of timetables and that I don't feel like researching the reservation system to figure it out, just asking those familiar what if one of the Piedmont round trips with N.C. equipment were extended to DC or just Richmond, same platform connection to a NE Regional train in either case - would that work ?
I love to hear the agreement on a second Carolinian! It's also great to learn from those in the know that there's plenty of timeslots on the NEC outside of rush hours. With the runaway success of its trains, and this potential change with the Star, I would be surprised if NCDOT doesn't examine its options sooner rather than later.
I agree totally that it's time to consider a second Carolinian no matter what happens with the Star--very needed. Two hours displaced from the current one makes sense to me, and pushing things later plus having another frequency between CLT and RGH would help provide more options later in the day between the two cities. That's assuming the 4 Piedmont frequencies would get moved as well. For example, the current latest departure from RGH to CLT is 5:30 p.m., which is very early and precludes some special event travel. The 7:45 p.m. CLT to RGH Piedmont is very useful in that regard.
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Truth be told, the biggest challenge will be getting CSX to agree to another passenger train through the Selma - Rocky Mount - Petersburg gauntlet. All this will become much much easier once the Petersburg - Raleigh SEHSR Line is in service.
joelkfla
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I don't see any reason for that. The current schedules have 1 hour separation in WAS north & westbound, and 2 hours east & southbound. Schedule changes would be minimal to compress it down to a normal crew change stop.
I wouldn’t put it past Amtrak to ignore this opportunity to market a one seat ride Miami to Chicago as @Amtrak25 mentions.
But, done right, the dwell time at WAS would be minimal with maybe the power changed to eliminate fueling. The crew could certainly work through (total time maybe 45 hrs vs 52 on CZ). The train could be stocked for the entire run at origin with maybe perishables topped off at WAS.
The benefits to Amtrak are significant: improved crew and equipment utilization, reduced switching and servicing costs in Washington, more effective use of scarce Superliner equipment, and another slot for higher revenue NEC train.
Passengers could benefit from the much more convenient through routing between the south and Midwest and the Capitol portion gets real food again!
The only downside, as mentioned, is for those passengers from Tampa, Raleigh (although they have the Carolinian option) and Columbia area wanting to go to NEC points. Of course Amtrak could schedule a cross platform connection in WAS for NEC passengers. A better solution would be a through coach and sleeper connecting to an NEC train in WAS.
But then we are all just having a good time purely speculating!
But, done right, the dwell time at WAS would be minimal with maybe the power changed to eliminate fueling. The crew could certainly work through (total time maybe 45 hrs vs 52 on CZ). The train could be stocked for the entire run at origin with maybe perishables topped off at WAS.
The benefits to Amtrak are significant: improved crew and equipment utilization, reduced switching and servicing costs in Washington, more effective use of scarce Superliner equipment, and another slot for higher revenue NEC train.
Passengers could benefit from the much more convenient through routing between the south and Midwest and the Capitol portion gets real food again!
The only downside, as mentioned, is for those passengers from Tampa, Raleigh (although they have the Carolinian option) and Columbia area wanting to go to NEC points. Of course Amtrak could schedule a cross platform connection in WAS for NEC passengers. A better solution would be a through coach and sleeper connecting to an NEC train in WAS.
But then we are all just having a good time purely speculating!
Well the rumor started here, I have yet to seen an explanation of what there doing.
Not sure why you could not just run the original power all the way.
The OBS crew would be interesting on which jobs get eliminated or if the OBS switch trains at Washington.
Have the ability to restock enroute is interesting but a lot of work too.
Agree the benefits are strong.
Agree with the passengers upside.
Not a big downside, you advertise it on the booking page as two trains. I purchased tickets this way all the time.
Maybe or maybe not. Something a changing with the Sliver Star.
IMHO, marketing this as a one-seat ride to Florida is the only way. Many non-railfans lament the fact that there is no through train to Florida. Getting on and off of the same train is no better than changing from Capitol Limited to Silver Meteor or Star. They could schedule the stop in Washington, D.C., for the same amount of time as the trains going from the NEC to the south.
If the loss of a one-seat ride between Raleigh and NYC is a big issue, I suppose Piedmont 72 could leave Charlotte an hour earlier and run to Selma, meet both Palmettos, and run back as a later 77. On paper it's interesting because Selma has two platforms and the 29 miles between Raleigh and Selma are state-owned and covered in ~30 minutes by the Carolinian. But I don't think the numbers work. Maybe 10-20 riders per day for a lot of complication.
joelkfla
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Another downside is the loss of sleeper inventory between FL & NYP, unless Amtrak restores the SM to 4 sleepers. I suppose transferring from the SS to a NER wouldn't be that terrible, except for the lack of checked baggage.
west point
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A second Carolinian just needs a slot across the Long Bridge. The best way for a second Carolinian is to make it part of a day departure from ATL @ ~ 0600 to CLT and follow the Carolinian route. As well the second Carolinian a later departure from NYP. Amtrak could maybe use this 2nd to take place of a Richmond regional eliminating need for new Long Bridge slot. Maybe add coaches at Richmond for regional traffic?
I don't think that will happen since the NEC corridor trains leave from the upstairs high-level platforms and the through trains use the lower level low-level platforms.
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They could do a cross platform with a properly timed Virginia train. When there is will there is a way.
With thru cars, it becomes which NEC train northbound. Some of those trains come from Virigina, and then if 92 is late, then what ? Then some of the NE Regional trains are bi-directional, topped-and tailed. Works on paper, not in reality.
I haven't looked at 92's performance, but we'll see how that impacts 29's punctuality in starting off on-time, ramifications of Pennsylvanian's refugees at Pittsburgh, and how NS behaves in being handed off a late train in the midwest.
I haven't looked at 92's performance, but we'll see how that impacts 29's punctuality in starting off on-time, ramifications of Pennsylvanian's refugees at Pittsburgh, and how NS behaves in being handed off a late train in the midwest.
jis
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When trains are late you miss the planned connection and have to do some additional footwork to make another connection. That is what will happen. On some days you won't get cross platform, big deal. Not like you won't get some connection within an hour or two. I think this is about as close to a non-issue that one can get to argue over
Incidentally this is relatively common in airline hub and spoke operation. There is a planned connection. Due to various reasons on a particular day it is missed and you get to connect to to a different flight, If the connection is to a heavily traveled route then the time lost is minimal. If it is on a sparsely served route you get to wait longer. The NEC is a densely served route so the missed connection issue northwards is not a show stopper at all.
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I was referring only to the logistics of thru cars that won't work.
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Ah OK. My bad.
Thru cars are a non starter going forward even if all trains ran perfectly on time. The Virginia and indeed all NEC trains become Airo sets in a few years. No one is going to attach random cars to those trains. The only transfer could happen to or from another overnight LD train.
Someone also mentioned transferring cars in Richmond. That is not going to happen due to lack of infrastructure to do it.
Even now, top and tailed Regional trains aren't going to get busted apart.
On an Ad Hoc basis, if a Regional train is chasing 92 a few minutes behind into Alexandria, they can evacuate there. But checked baggage is another matter, just like a Roanoke train and the Crescent sometimes have a horse race.
On an Ad Hoc basis, if a Regional train is chasing 92 a few minutes behind into Alexandria, they can evacuate there. But checked baggage is another matter, just like a Roanoke train and the Crescent sometimes have a horse race.
I agree RVR would not be a good transfer point because of the lack of frequent NEC service if the Star is late (and unhappy sleeper passengers if they have to transfer before WAS). But with a third run thru track added a couple years ago, the infrastructure should be ok, especially during day light when nothing is laying over.
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jis
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High level platforms are slated to be constructed at Washington Union Station Lower Level. In fact there will be only two low level platform tracks and three or four high level platform tracks when all is said and done at the lower level IIRC>
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The low level platforms are primarily for VRE trains which require low level platform. Incidentally Amtrak could run Superliner through there too.
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Atlantic Coast (Silver/Palmetto/Carolinian) Service discussion Q4 2023 - 2024- Latest: brianpmcdonnell17
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