Anyone else irritated at how FAR in advance you have to book

[printman2000]

I immediately booked the chaper fare and cancelled my other ticket. Because it was more than seven days from my original departure, I was able to get my orignal ticket refunded.

Did you actually get refunded the entire amount (I thought there was a 10% penalty), then purchase the new ticket? Or did they apply the old ticket amount to the new and if so, what abou the difference?

 

[p&sr]

Did you actually get refunded the entire amount (I thought there was a 10% penalty), then purchase the new ticket?

I think the 10% penalty only applies if the tickets have already been printed.

 

[printman2000]

I think the 10% penalty only applies if the tickets have already been printed.

I don't see that in the rules at http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...57&ssid=363

Once the value of a refund has been determined, as described in the following paragraphs, passengers have two options on how to receive the refund value:

1. Passengers may receive the full calculated refund value in the form of a non-refundable exchange voucher valid for future travel purchases. (Note: this option is not available online. See below for details on where to obtain refunds.)
   
2. Or, passengers may receive the calculated refund value, less a 10% refund service charge in the form of cash, check or credit to credit card, depending on the form of payment that was used for the ticket(s) being refunded. The maximum amount imposed by Amtrak on this 10% refund service charge will be $100 per refund transaction on any single reservation (Passenger Name Record).
   

 

[AlanB]

Did you actually get refunded the entire amount (I thought there was a 10% penalty), then purchase the new ticket?

I think the 10% penalty only applies if the tickets have already been printed.

Correct, the 10% penalty only applies if the ticket have been printed. If your reservation is still just a bunch of electronic bits on Amtrak's computer, then there is no penalty for cancellation.

And if you have printed the ticket, you can still avoid the penalty if you take the refund in the form of an Amtrak voucher good towards future travel for one year. Note: If for some reason you can't travel, it is possible to get the voucher reissued for another year, provided that you act before the current voucher expires. Once it expires, you're out of luck.

 

[AlanB]

I think the 10% penalty only applies if the tickets have already been printed.

I don't see that in the rules at http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...57&ssid=363

Once the value of a refund has been determined, as described in the following paragraphs, passengers have two options on how to receive the refund value:

1. Passengers may receive the full calculated refund value in the form of a non-refundable exchange voucher valid for future travel purchases. (Note: this option is not available online. See below for details on where to obtain refunds.)
   
2. Or, passengers may receive the calculated refund value, less a 10% refund service charge in the form of cash, check or credit to credit card, depending on the form of payment that was used for the ticket(s) being refunded. The maximum amount imposed by Amtrak on this 10% refund service charge will be $100 per refund transaction on any single reservation (Passenger Name Record).
   

It's not mentioned on the site, but nonetheless it is confirmed. I've done it many times and know of many, many others who've done so also. Again, the key is that the ticket have not been printed. Once printed, all of the above that you listed is true.

Now on the other hand, it is important to consider one aspect of this. If you really intend to travel, not picking up tickets until the last minute is a good thing, since you can get a full refund. If you're really not sure, then you've just given Amtrak an interest free loan for several months.

So I probably wouldn't go wild just booking trips that you hope you might be able to take.

 

[printman2000]

It's not mentioned on the site, but nonetheless it is confirmed. I've done it many times and know of many, many others who've done so also. Again, the key is that the ticket have not been printed. Once printed, all of the above that you listed is true.

I believe and understand that this has worked, perhaps even for a long time. BUT, since the official policy says you will be charged 10% regardless of whether tickets are printed, I would think it could be a bit risky to buy tickets you may not use. At any moment, practice may come in line with policy and you will be out your 10% or $100.

 

[the_traveler]

It's not mentioned on the site, but nonetheless it is confirmed. I've done it many times and know of many, many others who've done so also. Again, the key is that the ticket have not been printed. Once printed, all of the above that you listed is true.

I believe and understand that this has worked, perhaps even for a long time. BUT, since the official policy says you will be charged 10% regardless of whether tickets are printed, I would think it could be a bit risky to buy tickets you may not use. At any moment, practice may come in line with policy and you will be out your 10% or $100.

I had a ticket (that was printed) but not collected. (A long story, but just after boarding, the train's power died over and over until they finally decided to put us on another train. Because of the problems, the conductor forget to collect my ticket. I didn't complain! )

When I submitted the ticket for a refund, I received 100% of the fare paid (via the voucher I chose)! The ticket agent didn't say anything.

 

[AlanB]

It's not mentioned on the site, but nonetheless it is confirmed. I've done it many times and know of many, many others who've done so also. Again, the key is that the ticket have not been printed. Once printed, all of the above that you listed is true.

I believe and understand that this has worked, perhaps even for a long time. BUT, since the official policy says you will be charged 10% regardless of whether tickets are printed, I would think it could be a bit risky to buy tickets you may not use. At any moment, practice may come in line with policy and you will be out your 10% or $100.

Well first of all, official policy can change at any time and without warning. Heck, AGR has been soundly critcized on more than one occasion for making changes with zero warning. So unless one just happened to have a printout that proved what policy was in effect at the time you purchased your tickets, you could still be subjected to the new policy with no recourse.

That said however, it may not be written where we can see it, but I know of no one whose ever cancelled a reservation by phone under the circumstances we're discussing whose ever been offered the two choices listed in the official policy. The agent just automatically cancel the reservation and credits the charge account. Or put another way it's like the agents all know that the policy, not practice, is to issue a full refund under these circumstances.

I just did this recently with an Auto Train reservation. For some odd reason AT reservations are handled differently than other Amtrak reservations. You can't print AT tickets at a Quik-Trak machine and you can't cancel an AT reservation online, even if you made said reservation online. So I called up Amtrak and just told the agent that I needed to cancel the reservation and gave him the number. He said one minute, pulled it up and told me, ok it's cancelled and I've credited your credit card back for the full amount. There was no wavering, no hint that he was doing anything other than official policy.

 

[printman2000]

Well first of all, official policy can change at any time and without warning. Heck, AGR has been soundly critcized on more than one occasion for making changes with zero warning. So unless one just happened to have a printout that proved what policy was in effect at the time you purchased your tickets, you could still be subjected to the new policy with no recourse.
That said however, it may not be written where we can see it, but I know of no one whose ever cancelled a reservation by phone under the circumstances we're discussing whose ever been offered the two choices listed in the official policy. The agent just automatically cancel the reservation and credits the charge account. Or put another way it's like the agents all know that the policy, not practice, is to issue a full refund under these circumstances.

I just did this recently with an Auto Train reservation. For some odd reason AT reservations are handled differently than other Amtrak reservations. You can't print AT tickets at a Quik-Trak machine and you can't cancel an AT reservation online, even if you made said reservation online. So I called up Amtrak and just told the agent that I needed to cancel the reservation and gave him the number. He said one minute, pulled it up and told me, ok it's cancelled and I've credited your credit card back for the full amount. There was no wavering, no hint that he was doing anything other than official policy.

Again, I am not arguing at all that is what they do. ALL that I am saying is when you have a written, published policy that is different than the practice, you do run a risk of losing your money. Albeit, that risk may be small, but it is still a risk and people should be warned.

 

[AlanB]

Again, I am not arguing at all that is what they do. ALL that I am saying is when you have a written, published policy that is different than the practice, you do run a risk of losing your money. Albeit, that risk may be small, but it is still a risk and people should be warned.

And again, not trying to argue, but I'm trying to say that your use of the word "practice" is wrong. The published policy may not be clear on this issue, but I'm pretty sure that Amtrak internal policy is clear on this. The agents aren't just doing something nice or following some unwritten law, they are following Amtrak's written internal policy. We just can't see that internal policy.

I don't have proof of this, but based upon things that I've read and based upon how agents react when cancelling, I believe that this is internal Amtrak policy, not just a practice.

 

[printman2000]

Again, I am not arguing at all that is what they do. ALL that I am saying is when you have a written, published policy that is different than the practice, you do run a risk of losing your money. Albeit, that risk may be small, but it is still a risk and people should be warned.

And again, not trying to argue, but I'm trying to say that your use of the word "practice" is wrong. The published policy may not be clear on this issue, but I'm pretty sure that Amtrak internal policy is clear on this. The agents aren't just doing something nice or following some unwritten law, they are following Amtrak's written internal policy. We just can't see that internal policy.

I don't have proof of this, but based upon things that I've read and based upon how agents react when cancelling, I believe that this is internal Amtrak policy, not just a practice.

Even if you drop the word practice and change it to internal policy, that does not negate the risk of them suddenly enforcing the publically published policy (say that five times fast! ) I mean, someone wrote that external policy for a reason. I don't think they wrote it not to use it.

Personally, I would not spend a bunch of money relying on getting 100% back. I would spend it expecting to only get 90% back if I had to cancel and if I get it all, that is bonus.

Again, maybe the risk is small, but I do not think you can deny that it is still a risk if you buy a ticket with that policy published on the website.

 

[AlanB]

Even if you drop the word practice and change it to internal policy, that does not negate the risk of them suddenly enforcing the publically published policy (say that five times fast! ) I mean, someone wrote that external policy for a reason. I don't think they wrote it not to use it.
Personally, I would not spend a bunch of money relying on getting 100% back. I would spend it expecting to only get 90% back if I had to cancel and if I get it all, that is bonus.

Again, maybe the risk is small, but I do not think you can deny that it is still a risk if you buy a ticket with that policy published on the website.

All true.

But then as I pointed out earlier, Amtrak can still change the public policy too and without notice. And especially if you don't happen to have a printout of the policy in effect at the time you purchased your tickets, and even if you do, you could still have a fight on your hands to get them to honor the old policy. Remember, Amtrak doesn't allow its agents that much leeway in doing many things.

Example, I lost my AAA discount because Amtrak cancelled my Acela Express train and had to rebook me on a Regional. The agent couldn't override the three day rule, even though it wsn't my fault that the reservation was being changed.

Finally, I don't consider it to be that much of a risk. If you just have to have you money back, it is only 10% of the price capped at $100. But then there is the far better alternative of just saying to the agent, give me 100% back in a voucher.

 

[printman2000]

Sounds to me like we agree!