Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL

[Devil's Advocate]

Like it or not that's the standard in use in this country

Like it or not so are fad diets, but please don't let that stop you from educating the rest of us on the "standards" for religious legitimacy in this country.

 

[PVD]

I never said I agreed with it, I merely pointed out its existence and the unlikeliness of it changing in the near term.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Are you suggesting that amtrak asks "are you really jewish" when you order a Kosher Meal? I'm not sure if that's even legal.

Or are you suggesting that Kosher, vegan, etc. meals only be made available to passengers for an extra fee?

 

[cpotisch]

Are you suggesting that amtrak asks "are you really jewish" when you order a Kosher Meal? I'm not sure if that's even legal.

Or are you suggesting that Kosher, vegan, etc. meals only be made available to passengers for an extra fee?

I thought that what airlines often do is say that the special meals are for people who really need them, but dont actually verify it. They assume that most people will be honest, and it works out overall. I might be misunderstanding, but Im pretty sure thats who a lot of companies do it. I would also say that just because something is called a Kosher Meal doesnt mean you have to be Jewish to need it. If that meal doesnt have meat or some other ingredient that certain people cant eat, then that meal would make sense for them, even if they arent Kosher or Jewish. My point is, you can have a system that relies on most people being honest about if they really need a certain option, without having a full verification process of their religion or medical details.

 

[me_little_me]

Are you suggesting that amtrak asks "are you really jewish" when you order a Kosher Meal? I'm not sure if that's even legal.

Or are you suggesting that Kosher, vegan, etc. meals only be made available to passengers for an extra fee?

I thought that what airlines often do is say that the special meals are for people who really need them, but dont actually verify it. They assume that most people will be honest, and it works out overall. I might be misunderstanding, but Im pretty sure thats who a lot of companies do it. I would also say that just because something is called a Kosher Meal doesnt mean you have to be Jewish to need it. If that meal doesnt have meat or some other ingredient that certain people cant eat, then that meal would make sense for them, even if they arent Kosher or Jewish. My point is, you can have a system that relies on most people being honest about if they really need a certain option, without having a full verification process of their religion or medical details.

In fact Muslim Halal and Jewish Kosher are pretty close in many ways so it's not just Jewish people that would ask for kosher.

 

[cpotisch]

In fact Muslim Halal and Jewish Kosher are pretty close in many ways so it's not just Jewish people that would ask for kosher.

Actually, if something is certified kosher, it is 100% halal. It doesn't quite work the opposite direction (a halal meal isn't necessarily kosher), but nonetheless, a kosher meal will work for both religions. And if the meal doesn't have meat in it, it will be vegetarian, kosher, and halal. My point is, having one alternative option can suit many dietary restrictions, and if you simply ask that people only order it if they *need* that option, most people will be honest about it. You don't need to have a whole verification process.

 

[PVD]

We work with the honor system in many areas. It certainly is not up to me to pass judgement on the legitimacy of a specific person's claims, even though I believe there are people who are willing to game a system for their own advantage. Just look at what has happened with emotional support animals on airlines, service dogs in all areas, and handicapped parking. People who use provisions meant to help a different group for their own advantage drive up costs for everyone, and may end up causing a backlash that hurts the folks that actually deserve consideration. A vegan meal would satisfy vegetarian requirements, is it really practical to have more than a couple of choices in that realm, or any other for that matter ? Too many optional meals absolutely drives up average unit costs.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Im so confused by this logic. Im just picturing someone pre-ordering a Kosher meal, hanging up the phone and then doing an evil-Villian laugh going "ha! No vegan wrap for me! I tricked them into giving me a better meal!"

I don't think I've seen anyone suggest there should be a vegetarian AND a vegan choice (the current vegan wrap covers both). I suggested there should be a gluten free side and dessert choice for all the meals, since both salads are gluten free. Since I haven't got a doctors note I suppose im not allowed to order it though.

 

[cpotisch]

Im so confused by this logic. Im just picturing someone pre-ordering a Kosher meal, hanging up the phone and then doing an evil-Villian laugh going "ha! No vegan wrap for me! I tricked them into giving me a better meal!"

How do you know that it would be a better meal? Kosher does not necessarily mean better.

 

[TiBike]

You have to know these things when you're an Evil Villain you know (with apologies to Monty Python).

 

[tommylicious]

So I just perused the cafe car menu changes, and I think they're terrific improvements to that erstwhile wasteland. (See, I can compliment too!) Amtrak have to similarly upgrade the dining car menu as they did the cafe car. The dining car changes, in present form, are net downgrades for sleeper pax.

 

[MARC Rider]

Actually this is more to give freedom to Amtrak management to do the right thing to maximize use and revenue overall and reduce the need for overall subsidy rather than focusing on reducing F&B losses. If you think that is wrong then I disagree. Congress should not be micromanaging these sorts of things.

I agree. Sure, F&B yields negative revenue, but so dies the Amtrak Police department. At least the dining cars recover some of their costs back. Should be shut down APD if it doesn't start showing a profit?

 

[MikefromCrete]

Actually this is more to give freedom to Amtrak management to do the right thing to maximize use and revenue overall and reduce the need for overall subsidy rather than focusing on reducing F&B losses. If you think that is wrong then I disagree. Congress should not be micromanaging these sorts of things.

I agree. Sure, F&B yields negative revenue, but so dies the Amtrak Police department. At least the dining cars recover some of their costs back. Should be shut down APD if it doesn't start showing a profit?

Since Congressman Mica is no longer in office, I don't think that will be necessary.

 

[jis]

Congressman Mica may not be there, but what he decreed is currently the law of the land. Getting rid of that law is what is necessary.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Actually this is more to give freedom to Amtrak management to do the right thing to maximize use and revenue overall and reduce the need for overall subsidy rather than focusing on reducing F&B losses. If you think that is wrong then I disagree. Congress should not be micromanaging these sorts of things.

I agree. Sure, F&B yields negative revenue, but so dies the Amtrak Police department. At least the dining cars recover some of their costs back. Should be shut down APD if it doesn't start showing a profit?

Since Congressman Mica is no longer in office, I don't think that will be necessary.

So long as Bill Shuster R-Pa. remains as Chair of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee I would expect an uphill battle on reversing the law that requires Amtrak F&B to break even.

 

[jis]

Yeah, it may not come out of the Committee, but a floor amendment is a different matter. Admittedly it is a long shot, but it is worth a try, and might just work if worded carefully.

 

[bretton88]

I will say this, a lot of the LSL postings I've seen on Facebook have been largely positive on the dining changes, so this might not even be a problem. Time will tell how it all works out.

 

[PVD]

I had breakfast on the LSL, and a dinner and breakfast on the CL. What was offered was generally decent , but despite my concerns about implementation, I can't disagree with the notion that a pre ordering system for those ticketed far enough in advance, a few more options or combinations, and some way to include coach passengers would make it much better. A hot option, or a voucher system for the café menu perhaps?

 

[cpotisch]

or a voucher system for the café menu perhaps?

 

[me_little_me]

Im so confused by this logic. Im just picturing someone pre-ordering a Kosher meal, hanging up the phone and then doing an evil-Villian laugh going "ha! No vegan wrap for me! I tricked them into giving me a better meal!"

How do you know that it would be a better meal? Kosher does not necessarily mean better.

Many eons ago after the Tri-Motor was no longer used and jet airliners probably existed),there were numerous commentators with the usual "100 best suggestions for flying" who would suggest ordering a kosher meal on an airline because the quality was better. This was, of course before browsers were invented.

 

[PVD]

You are correct, I remember it to.

 

[Manny T]

I ordered a kosher meal once. Everything was soft and bland. I said to myself, this reminds me of something. Wait, wait, don't tell me -- a hospital meal! Then it dawned on me, of course, same meals go to hospitals and senior homes for patients who order them there.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I ordered a kosher meal once. Everything was soft and bland. I said to myself, this reminds me of something. Wait, wait, don't tell me -- a hospital meal! Then it dawned on me, of course, same meals go to hospitals and senior homes for patients who order them there.

That has been my experience as well. On US airlines the special meals often resemble a subset of hospital codes that taste the same or worse than the standard airline meal. In other cases they're little more than a random assortment of sides that may or may not match the letter or spirit of what you actually ordered. That being said, there are some carriers that provide useful options such as FPML (Fruit Platter) that are easy to understand and which work out well as practical alternatives to the high salt/fat options.

 

[bretton88]

Im so confused by this logic. Im just picturing someone pre-ordering a Kosher meal, hanging up the phone and then doing an evil-Villian laugh going "ha! No vegan wrap for me! I tricked them into giving me a better meal!"

How do you know that it would be a better meal? Kosher does not necessarily mean better.

This used to be a good travel hack in the 90s because coach meals where absolutely terrible. So ordering a special meal meant there was a decent chance you'd get a higher quality meal with better ingredients (or at least something with fruit). However airlines in the last several years have really made an effort to upgrade their food quality so now that special meal is no longer any better (and might be worse) than the standard meal offerings.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Im so confused by this logic. Im just picturing someone pre-ordering a Kosher meal, hanging up the phone and then doing an evil-Villian laugh going "ha! No vegan wrap for me! I tricked them into giving me a better meal!"

How do you know that it would be a better meal? Kosher does not necessarily mean better.

This used to be a good travel hack in the 90s because coach meals where absolutely terrible. So ordering a special meal meant there was a decent chance you'd get a higher quality meal with better ingredients (or at least something with fruit). However airlines in the last several years have really made an effort to upgrade their food quality so now that special meal is no longer any better (and might be worse) than the standard meal offerings.

Airline coach meal quality can vary a lot in my experience, not just among different airlines but also different airports, and they're not all getting better.

I've been happy with coach meals on EVA, Singapore, and Thai but I've found Japan Airlines, All Nippon, and Korean Air coach meals to be rather bad and take a look at this "breakfast" on United Airlines from a couple years ago...

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Even if you're flying the best airline in the world the food will probably leave a lot to be desired if you're departing a culinary wasteland like Moscow or Manila.