Amtrak's 400% food markup

[Eric S]

I think that may well be right. There are plenty of places that have "self-service" mircowaves.

 

[KmH]

Wow!

Food on Amtrak trains is only marked up 400%?

 

[D.P. Roberts]

The advertising for The Olive Garden shows the chefs going to "their kitchen in Tuscany" to learn to prepare the dinners. But the advertising never says that the meals are delivered to the restaurant already prepared frozen in packets. The chef at your local restaurant just reheats it (probably in a convection oven), puts it on a plate and maybe adds some pasta to the plate and sends it out. Many restaurants do this also. (I have worked in many restaurants and have seen thus.)

So how is this different from what Amtrak does? :huh:

The difference is that Olive Garden is a free enterprise, & people are free to eat at Olive Garden despite its horrible reputation.

Amtrak's dining cars are constantly under attack by Congress. The basic justification for dining cars - at least from most railroad fans, from what I've read - is that the dining car is necessary because people can't live for several days on the nasty microwaved crud being served in the Cafe car.

Now, we're finding out that at least one (and probably more) of the dining car meals requires EXACTLY as much preparation as the stuff in the Cafe car.

So, one might question whether the Cafe attendants can just stock a few Amy's Kitchen meals & then get rid of the dining car.

I suppose one might say that eating in the dining car isn't about the food, it's about getting a chance to get out of your seat, interact with fellow passengers, etc. Considering that one can do that for free (i.e. no extra funding by the government) at any point by simply conversing with one's fellow passengers in a coach, sleeper, or lounge car, I find it hard to argue that the dining car is "necessary" if the Cafe attendant is well suited to preparing these sorts of meals.

So, the farther Amtrak goes down this road, the less justification they have for needing a dining car in the first place.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I find it amazing how you all can dwell on function over form. To me the proof is in the pudding, or more exactly the meal. I refrain from having an auto erection if something is microwaved or convection oven-ed but rather on how it tastes.

To me Amtrak food tastes bland, stale, and overcooked. Similar to a hospital or retirement home.

I have never had a bad steak on Amtrak and can count on the fingers of one hand the horrible Amtrak meals I have had in fifty years.

Fifty years ago consumers were still enamored with the easy storage and quick preparation of canned and frozen foods. Here in 2016 some of us are rediscovering the improved flavors, textures, and nutritional qualities of freshly prepared meals. Every time someone brings up poor quality food our resident apologists run off and circle the wagons around Steak Island™. Which is an amazingly overpriced option for folks in coach and a 50/50 option at best for folks in sleepers. Half the time Amtrak cooks my steak incorrectly, leaves it sitting somewhere until it's cold, or smothers it with some random sauce or other topping without asking. You want to know which kind of steak gets smothered in toppings without asking? Cheap generic steak that's too low grade to carry the meal on its own.

For all I care they can hang the steak out the window and let the passing torrent of air cook it as long as I get it prepared to my liking. Is the food equal to Commander's Palace in New Orleans or the Blue Lion in Jackson WY? No. Is it better than Applebee's or Ruby's Tuesday's? Yes. When they serve an egg McMuffin in Gore Canyon I will raise my voice, but we are a long way from that.

I'd say Amtrak food today is substantially worse than Applebee's or Ruby Tuesdays and unlike those restaurants you can't really change anything of consequence. For the vast majority of the Amtrak's menu you either take it the one specific way Amtrak prepares it or you simply go without. Compared to the shockingly poor grade pork sausage served on Amtrak today an Egg McMuffin is practically fine dining. Let us know if you need any more pudding to clarify what's wrong with Amtrak's precooked frozen food.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

If the Cafe Car was set up as the solo food source for train and staffed correctly. Then the need for a dining car can be called in question.

I have been on a Talgo with two LSA working the southbound train due to passengers load. The team had a line, but it keep moving quite nicely.

You need space to prepare, space to store, space to display, and space to ring up the order. The two LSA got it done, good food fast. Not hard. Mix of fresh, frozen, prepared foods, and junk foods. A little of everything on the menu.

 

[Pastor Dave]

400% markup does seem a little steep - but I suppose it is in line with ballparks, bowling alleys, and other places that don't even let you bring your own food with you. At least that is still an option for some.

 

[FormerOBS]

To all:

In general,State regulations are much more forgiving than the FDA regs under which Amtrak operates. FDA's rationale has never been fully explained to me, although most of their issues have to do with contamination by people who have no training in sanitary practices. That's the actual situation, so please don't shoot the messenger.

Over the years, I have seen and heard of passenger behaviors that would curl the hair of a bald man. This leads me to personally agree with the FDA and conclude that public access to Microwave ovens and food storage areas is not a good idea, in spite of whatever more lax rules may be approved by your State and local Sanitation officials. Caveat Emptor.

Tom

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yep, anyone who has never been in a position to regulary visit private and publicly owned residences and public restrooms, would be Shocked to know how people can be such Pigs!

Check most of the Coach Restrooms with a Lazy Attendant on a LD Train on the Second Day out on a Western Trip!

 

[Radvlad]

I still think the idea of airline type meals are a good idea and could be sold out of the cafe car. Meals could range from basic cheeseburger or pasta dish to nicer meals, including steaks and route specific meals.

The entree just has to be warmed up in the convection oven and then placed on a pre plated tray that has the salad, roll, and dessert. These meals could be boarded and stored in chillers. Heck they could even be loaded into trolleys for sale in coach. Give the attendants a commission. You could even sell good quality cold sandwiches in coach. The savings would be huge and the quality would be much better. For hot meals they would have to add ovens to the cafe car and staff it with two people during meal times, but that would still be cheaper than operating the dining car.

 

[Hal]

To all:

In general,State regulations are much more forgiving than the FDA regs under which Amtrak operates. FDA's rationale has never been fully explained to me, although most of their issues have to do with contamination by people who have no training in sanitary practices. That's the actual situation, so please don't shoot the messenger.

Yep. And the FDA will close the food service in a heartbeat if they see any of their violations. That is real, not an exaggeration. I have seen them close it because a passenger leaned over and grabbed their own ice from the ice well.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Manny T]

i assume everyone would agree that Amtrak is entitled to some mark up on its food & beverage service. The premise of this thread seems to be that 400% is too high. But is the mark-up on this item really 400%? OP cites a $4 supermarket item and a c. $16 Amtrak price tag and makes some observation that it cannot cost $12 to serve it.

The last figures I saw were for FY 2012. That year Amtrak F&B revenue on LD trains was $63.5 mil. The "cost" of those items (commissary) was $59.8 mil. yielding a nominal profit of $3.7 mil. But the labor costs for onboard labor to serve those items came in at $75.3 mil. This yields an actual loss of $79 mil on LD F&B for FY 2012. And I assume the labor cost does not include an apportionment of the cost of the equipment and servicing allocated to dining cars, etc.

So what is the mark-up on those Amy frozen items? Less than 400%, that's for sure.

Btw my take-away from those figures is that LD PAX are not getting a free ride; they are paying for their food and then some (but not for the labor it takes to serve it).

 

[D.P. Roberts]

i assume everyone would agree that Amtrak is entitled to some mark up on its food & beverage service. The premise of this thread seems to be that 400% is too high. But is the mark-up on this item really 400%? OP cites a $4 supermarket item and a c. $16 Amtrak price tag and makes some observation that it cannot cost $12 to serve it.

Well, that's not really what I've been trying to say. Let me start over. I have two points to make:

1) Let's assume that Amtrak can buy an Amy's Kitchen enchilada and a Digiorno frozen pizza for about the same price. They sell the enchilada in the dining car for $16, and the pizza in the cafe car for $7. When labor and other costs are included, Amtrak basically breaks even or makes a tiny profit on the pizza. Meanwhile, the enchilada ends up being part of Amtrak's annual $75 million shortfall for long distance dining cars (from 2013 numbers).

Amtrak provides two different dining options - a snack car and a dining car. I think that most passengers would understand the difference to be that the snack car provides prepackaged, microwaved snacks, while the dining car provides food that at least appears to be "freshly made."

If Amtrak is greatly reducing its reliance on fresh ingredients - and this entree is a prime example of that - then they're eliminating the distinction between the two services. If passengers really want the enchiladas, I could foresee a future where they're offered in the Cafe car for $7, and Amtrak wouldn't even lose any money on them. Passengers could then have two choices - an enchilada from the Cafe for $7, or the same enchilada for $16 in the dining car. I think most passengers would be dismayed to find out it's the same food, only served on fancy plates and for more than twice the price.

2) Amtrak is a political creature. Congresscritters have made speeches outlining how Amtrak manages to lose money serving a can of Pepsi. I can easily see an anti-Amtrak politician legitimately asking why Amtrak is using two different systems for serving frozen foods - especially if one of those systems is losing $75 million per year. I honestly can't think of a good response to that. I'm not sure how Amtrak's supporters in the government could respond to that either. Amtrak needs to be wary of the "land cruise" label, especially on long-distance routes. So, any reference to atmosphere, tradition, etc. aren't really going to work. If having the dining car specifically (and not just, say, two Cafe cars) is no longer about the food, what is it about?

 

[andersone]

For a guy who fought the battle of Grant Park in 1968 being labeled an "apologist" comes rather as a shock. As for my fresh food tastes let me say that I have taken one cruise in my life on a respected line highly vaunted for their food, After seven nights only one meal was prepared better than She Who Must Be Obeyed produces on a nightly basis here in our humble abode. I believe my point was overlooked, which would lead Mother to say it was poorly written. In the eternal struggle between function versus form you can complicate an argument with detail. I simply contend, in perhaps a circuitous fashion, is that I have enjoyed Amtrak food and considerate well prepared. My progeny with steak is Iowa Corn Fed, which only the poor relatives in Nebraska choose to contend. I have no doubt there are efficiencies that need to be introduced, but I will still show up for supper

 

[rrdude]

I guess these prepackaged meals are the best Amtrak could do given their mandate to reduce costs. So - why not reduce this price by serving them like they really are - a nuked cafe car fast food. Avoid the expense of the waiters and place settings and serve them as carry out to eat in your room or on bare tables in a portion of the diner. I suspect the majority of passengers wouldn't know the difference. But, at the same time, offer a freshly prepared sit down meal with quality food for a premium price. The cruise lines have figured that out with their specialty dining options. I'd gladly pay a few bucks more for a really good leisurely meal with decent service.

And there's the rub: a really good leisurely meal with decent service is what Amtrak is in the process of eliminating with their nickel and dime cuts, standardized Menus and cutting Food Service staff and even Diners!!!

And they would see the LAST of me on any LD train. Heck, I've already started saving $$$ for Canadian, or other........

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Amtrak's dining cars are constantly under attack by Congress.

One might want to Google and read some stories about Congress's own dining facilities. Kind of gives you a perspective on their mind-set for dining, be it Amtrak or their own.

I have read about "From 1993 to 2008, the Senate cafeterias received more than $18 million dollars in subsidies.", and guess out of who's pockets those subsidies come out of?

The NYTimes ran a story a short while ago, "A Bipartisan Outcry in the House, Over the Cafeteria".

 

[trainman74]

I have read about "From 1993 to 2008, the Senate cafeterias received more than $18 million dollars in subsidies.", and guess out of who's pockets those subsidies come out of?

And Wall Street complains because the company I work for offers free food to employees -- I'm sure the amount they spend on this benefit is way, way under that, per capita.

 

[neroden]

I wonder though if those FDA rules might only apply to mixing personal food with Amtrak Cafe prepared and handled food. So a separate microwave for personal, not Amtrak handled food, maybe be ok. Just speculating.

Yep, this is the way it works everywhere I know of. I know some cafes which have a "customer self-serve microwave" and a completely separate "behind the counter" microwave, and never the twain shall mix. I'm pretty sure that's the standard rule nationwide.

 

[Cina]

My thought, though, is how often is a public microwave in each coach going to get cleaned? Even if the FDA allowed it, I mean look how dirty some coach attendants let the bathrooms get. Those passive-aggressive "cover your plate" notes don't work in the break room and they really won't work in a coach car.

 

[rrdude]

QUOTE: "...............I'd say Amtrak food today is substantially worse than Applebee's or Ruby Tuesdays and unlike those restaurants you can't really change anything of consequence...."

100% agree. I've been "forced" to eat at Applebee's a few times, (no car, only eatery in walking distance, go with friend who Luvs it, etc., etc.)

The WORST Applebee's experience I've had, is better than the standard Amtrak dining car experience.

Note I didn't say "better than the BEST Amtrak experience" I've had. I've had some knock-out fantastic experiences in Amtrak's LD diners, but, not in the last 4-5 years...

Knowing what Amtrak is capable of, and what Amtrak routinely delivers, is what makes me go ape-shi#$%

 

[PRR 60]

There was a time, and I think it was in the late 1990's, when Amtrak boasted that its dining car chefs were all trained by the CIA. No, not that CIA. The Culinary Institute of America. It was a source of pride.

My bet is that there are a decent number of those folks left working Amtrak. This era must leave them depressed.

 

[Bob Dylan]

There was a time, and I think it was in the late 1990's, when Amtrak boasted that its dining car chefs were all trained by the CIA. No, not that CIA. The Culinary Institute of America. It was a source of pride.

My bet is that there are a decent number of those folks left working Amtrak. This era must leave them depressed.

Excellent post Bill!

I know several Amtrak chefs that had this training and can crank out good meals with the best of them, but most are reaching retirement age and are, as you said, discouraged by the current state of Amtrak's Food and Beverage policies!

 

[HARHBG]

One fact no one has pointed out is the labor cost Amtrak has for all aspects of its food service. If Olive Garden, Applebee's TGIF and all the rest had to pay the wages Amtrak pays you'd see prices at those restaurants at and above the Amtrak menu prices.

I'm not taking any position about the wages Amtrak pays. However, the fact remains that the Unions have overpriced their labor in relationship to the real world.

The only way Amtrak today can even begin to break even on food service would be to contract out the entire affair.

 

[Bob Dylan]

HARHBG: Your opinion about Unions pricing themselves out of the Market is right out of the Kock Brothers/Right Wing Playbook.

I do agree that Amtrak's Food and Beverage Service is in need of a Major Revision with Contracting it out being one of the ideas worth a look!

Just because most Service Industry Employees make less than $10 an Hour with No Benefits, while their employers make Millions or Billions, is no reason to bash hard working Unionized Amtrak employees that make $40-80k a year depending on expierence. YMMV

As the saying goes, if Congress and other Government Lifers were paid Minimum Wage, the Minimum Wage would be at least $50 an Hour if not more!

The real Story is that far too many hard working Americans are living Pay Check to Paycheck while the top 1% have more wealth and assests than the bottom 90% combined!

You could look it up!

 

[FormerOBS]

There was a time, and I think it was in the late 1990's, when Amtrak boasted that its dining car chefs were all trained by the CIA. No, not that CIA. The Culinary Institute of America. It was a source of pride.

My bet is that there are a decent number of those folks left working Amtrak. This era must leave them depressed.

You pretty much nailed it.

Tom

 

[FormerOBS]

HARHBG:

Bob Dylan beat me to it. A contractor wouldn't save Amtrak much, if any, money because most non-labor expenses would be the same or greater, and any savings in labor costs would be eaten up in overhead costs of the operation of the contracting company. There ain't no free lunch.

Tom