Amtrak to MSP then Greyhound - Hotel?

[LMac]

My parents are scheduled on the EB from LNS to SEA (via CHI)departing June 12 but are looking into alternative transportation. Flying is not an option so they are considering a Greyhound. I believe that would be a very difficult trip for them and was looking into the possibility of taking Amtrak to MSP then transfering to Greyhound. Based on station locations it looks like they are 15 minutes apart. I wondering if anyone is familiar with the area to recommend a hotel. The Amtrak doesn't come in until 10:30pm so also want to know if the area is safe? I was just thinking that one less night sleeping on the bus would be best for them. Thank you for your input.

 

[stlouielady]

There's a Days Inn hotel about three blocks away (Days Inn St Paul Minneapolis Midway). They have a shuttle that will come pick them up, as well as plenty of cabs when the trains arrive. It may not be the best hotel, but it was definitely adequate for the one night stay I did there 2-3 years back. The station itself appeared quite safe to me, and I wasn't uncomfortable at all in the area. They may want to verify the shuttle hours. If they aren't running the shuttle at the time the train arrives, as I mentioned, there were plenty of cabs on hand as well. The shuttle may even be able to take them to the Greyhound terminal; never hurts to ask!

 

[LMac]

There's a Days Inn hotel about three blocks away (Days Inn St Paul Minneapolis Midway). They have a shuttle that will come pick them up, as well as plenty of cabs when the trains arrive. It may not be the best hotel, but it was definitely adequate for the one night stay I did there 2-3 years back. The station itself appeared quite safe to me, and I wasn't uncomfortable at all in the area. They may want to verify the shuttle hours. If they aren't running the shuttle at the time the train arrives, as I mentioned, there were plenty of cabs on hand as well. The shuttle may even be able to take them to the Greyhound terminal; never hurts to ask!

Thank you for quick reply - sounds like a good option.

 

[henryj]

Why don't you take the SWC to LA and then the CS to Seattle? Both the EB and the CZ are not going to be running for some time to come.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Why don't you take the SWC to LA and then the CS to Seattle? Both the EB and the CZ are not going to be running for some time to come.

:hi: See my Post about SOLD OUT Western Trains Henry or Check Out Amtrak.com to see what I mean!

Looks like alot of People are going to either Miss Out on their Trips or take Alternate Transportation or End Up having to Rebook for Later in the Year, the Western Trains are Pretty Much Booked @ High Buckets FOR THE SUMMER!!! :help:

 

[anir dendroica]

My parents are scheduled on the EB from LNS to SEA (via CHI)departing June 12 but are looking into alternative transportation. Flying is not an option so they are considering a Greyhound. I believe that would be a very difficult trip for them and was looking into the possibility of taking Amtrak to MSP then transfering to Greyhound. Based on station locations it looks like they are 15 minutes apart. I wondering if anyone is familiar with the area to recommend a hotel. The Amtrak doesn't come in until 10:30pm so also want to know if the area is safe? I was just thinking that one less night sleeping on the bus would be best for them. Thank you for your input.

Have they heard from Amtrak that the EB is not running west of MSP on the 12th? I don't think Greyhound will sell out (am I wrong?), so why not wait to see if the train is running before booking a horrendously long bus ride. I do agree that it is prudent to have alternatives in mind given that the EB restart date has been pushed back twice, but I'd hate to be stuck on a bus if the train is indeed running.

(You can tell I don't care much for Greyhound...)

Mark

 

[henryj]

Why don't you take the SWC to LA and then the CS to Seattle? Both the EB and the CZ are not going to be running for some time to come.

:hi: See my Post about SOLD OUT Western Trains Henry or Check Out Amtrak.com to see what I mean!

Looks like alot of People are going to either Miss Out on their Trips or take Alternate Transportation or End Up having to Rebook for Later in the Year, the Western Trains are Pretty Much Booked @ High Buckets FOR THE SUMMER!!! :help:

If Amtrak had any common sense whatever they would put some extra cars on the SWC and the Eagle/Sunset from all the extra CZ and EB cars they have lying around.

 

[rrdude]

Why don't you take the SWC to LA and then the CS to Seattle? Both the EB and the CZ are not going to be running for some time to come.

:hi: See my Post about SOLD OUT Western Trains Henry or Check Out Amtrak.com to see what I mean!

Looks like alot of People are going to either Miss Out on their Trips or take Alternate Transportation or End Up having to Rebook for Later in the Year, the Western Trains are Pretty Much Booked @ High Buckets FOR THE SUMMER!!! :help:

If Amtrak had any common sense whatever they would put some extra cars on the SWC and the Eagle/Sunset from all the extra CZ and EB cars they have lying around.

Umm, that would require thinking "like a business that has to maximize profits......" something that Amtrak doesn't do so well.

However, I agree that's a great idea, the motive power could probably handle an extra car or two, they could increase the staff, and the equipment is obviously ava. Would it be "EZ"? No, it would require one individual at Amtrak to "take ownership" and think outside the box. Don't get me wrong, there are a TON of logistics to cover, (staffing, stocking, cleaning, double-stops, yada-yada-yada) even if they only did it for one day, but none of them are deal breakers.

What a great idea, and I bet it will be wasted, cause the "culture" to do things like that just doesn't exist in enuff people in a position of power.

I would love to be proved wrong.

 

[AlanB]

I already explained in another post why it's not practical for Amtrak to put those cars on the Chief and why they won't do it.

 

[jis]

If they are going to restart full EB service on Thursday, then they can hardly be in a position to send off a bunch of EB cars on a trek across to the other corner of the west coast on Eagle or SWC.

Also since they are running full service DEN - EMY, effectively they have only one consist to play around with, which does not free up enough cars to consistently add one car of any sort to any train.

So maybe there is a rational reason for doing what they are - or not.

 

[henryj]

I am certain that they could add an extra coach and sleeper to the SWC to handle the overflow if they really wanted too. A company that was actually in business would do whatever it could to accomodate passengers caught by the cancellations. But Amtrak is really not a business. It's a Government agency.

 

[AlanB]

I am certain that they could add an extra coach and sleeper to the SWC to handle the overflow if they really wanted too. A company that was actually in business would do whatever it could to accomodate passengers caught by the cancellations. But Amtrak is really not a business. It's a Government agency.

They'd need 4 extra coaches and 4 extra sleepers. During this peak period that would pretty much eliminate any spares in LA & Chicago, meaning that a bad ordered car at either yard would result in a train going out without its full compliment of cars.

Amtrak simply doesn't have 10 spares sitting around at this time of the year.

 

[henryj]

Alright Alan. There are people that think positive and do things and there are people that think negative and go nowhere. Amtrak is the latter. They have the equipment and there is always a way. They are bureaucrats and just are unable to think our of their tiny little box. They have their regulations and rules and big blinders on.

 

[TransitGeek]

Alright Alan. There are people that think positive and do things and there are people that think negative and go nowhere. Amtrak is the latter. They have the equipment and there is always a way. They are bureaucrats and just are unable to think our of their tiny little box. They have their regulations and rules and big blinders on.

I'm sorry... did you mention evidence for your claims? I must have missed it. Do you have an inside source at Amtrak operations who knows something about a secret cache of Superliners that the (from what I've seen, very-knowledgeable) participants of this forum are unaware of? Have you listed out the consists of the stub trains PDX-WFH, CHI-MSP and (IIRC) EMY-DEN and determined that there is extra equipment, and, if so, can we see this calculation? Would this permit an acceptable number of spares kept around so that a bad order wouldn't reduce the only remaining CHI-west coast train in the country to standing-room-only in moments? How do you know this?

It's been my experience that the people at Amtrak, by and large, sincerely want to do their jobs of moving people about the country by rail. Regardless of whether or not Amtrak is a government-owned corporation (and, by the way, it is government-owned, rather than government-run; there is a difference), I'm sure that a plausible solution for accommodating the hundreds of doubtlessly angry EB and CZ passengers stuck at either end of the annulled trains would be welcome news for them. If you can honestly show that adding capacity on the Chief doesn't conform to the limitations posted by Alan and jis, please share it with the rest of us-- and, for that matter, with Amtrak. I'm certain nobody would mind being proven wrong.

Until then, please don't let your ideology get in the way of your evidence.

 

[henryj]

you listed out the consists of the stub trains PDX-WFH, CHI-MSP and (IIRC) EMY-DEN and determined that there is extra equipment, and, if so, can we see this calculation? Would this permit an acceptable number of spares kept around so that a bad order wouldn't reduce the only remaining CHI-west coast train in the country to standing-room-only in moments? How do you know this?

If you can honestly show that adding capacity on the Chief doesn't conform to the limitations posted by Alan and jis, please share it with the rest of us-- and, for that matter, with Amtrak. I'm certain nobody would mind being proven wrong.

The EB hasn't run in weeks. It has assigned to it at least 5 sets of three sleepers, fours coaches, diner and lounge. With spares that is about 50 cars most of which are available. The CZ has a similar number. So now there are perhaps 100 superliners sitting around at either end doing nothing. So they run a couple of coach only stub trains. That in no way soaks up all that surplus. Count them yourself. To put an extra coach and sleeper on the SWC would be a no brainer. I don't care what they do as I am not in Chicago trying to go west. I have no ideology here. Just some common sense. You experts that live in the Chicago area and count cars all the time can figure it all out.

 

[AlanB]

you listed out the consists of the stub trains PDX-WFH, CHI-MSP and (IIRC) EMY-DEN and determined that there is extra equipment, and, if so, can we see this calculation? Would this permit an acceptable number of spares kept around so that a bad order wouldn't reduce the only remaining CHI-west coast train in the country to standing-room-only in moments? How do you know this?

If you can honestly show that adding capacity on the Chief doesn't conform to the limitations posted by Alan and jis, please share it with the rest of us-- and, for that matter, with Amtrak. I'm certain nobody would mind being proven wrong.

The EB hasn't run in weeks. It has assigned to it at least 5 sets of three sleepers, fours coaches, diner and lounge. With spares that is about 50 cars most of which are available. The CZ has a similar number. So now there are perhaps 100 superliners sitting around at either end doing nothing. So they run a couple of coach only stub trains. That in no way soaks up all that surplus. Count them yourself. To put an extra coach and sleeper on the SWC would be a no brainer. I don't care what they do as I am not in Chicago trying to go west. I have no ideology here. Just some common sense. You experts that live in the Chicago area and count cars all the time can figure it all out.

No, not at all.

First, the CZ is still running EMY to DEN. I believe that only leaves one trainset out of service in Chicago, all the rest are still in daily use.

Turning to the EB, while all the sleepers are sitting, not all the coaches and cafes are. Several are being used for the daily runs between CHI & Minneapolis, while others are being used for the runs between Spokane and Seattle/Portland.

So already the claim that there are 100 cars sitting around doing nothing is outragous and it might not even be 50 cars.

Then half of the builders cars that are sitting, are sitting on the west coast. That means deadheading them down to LA in order to run on the Chief. With Amtrak hoping to get the green light to restart service, they're not sending those cars any place, otherwise they can't restart service.

Next, most people other than railfans aren't going to want a 2 day detour from Seattle/Portland down to LA, just to get to Chicago. And you'd also need to beef up the Coast Starlight to handle that passenger load. For the CZ, yes that might make more sense, but again the CZ is still running more than 1/2 of its route so the bulk of its equipment remains in daily use.

Finally, if Amtrak were to put some of those spares into use, when they do get the green light to restart the EB now they have to cancel everything for 3 more days while they wait to recollect all that equipment off the Chief and get it back to where it belongs, before they can restart service.

 

[jphjaxfl]

The other problem with adding cars from the Empire Builder or California Zephyr to other trains would be setting the additional capacity up in the reservation system. Most people want to make long distance train reservations in advance. By the time they had the new capacity in the system, it could be necessary to use the cars on their normal routes. In early Amtrak and pre-Amtrak time, there were extra cars sitting around in most railroad hubs that could be used. Some of the cars were quite old, but kept ready. I rode the L&N a lot in the late 1960s and it was not unusual for them to run some heavy weight cars built in the 1920s during peak periods or when regular cars were bad ordered. That was after L&N had sold some of their streamlined cars to Mexico.

 

[henryj]

Guys you can keep up the negative vibes as long as you want. The bottom line is Amtrak could have done something and in the case of the TE they did. No one says they have to dispatch 5 sleepers in a row or anything of the sort. But they could have alleviated some of the overcrowding on the SWC for a brief time while all this flooding and detouring was going on. And for the EB it has been going on for at least two weeks. Of course 100 superliners is a stretch, but that is how many are affected even if not available. The bottom line is there are plenty available on both coasts. I see you just don't want to agree with me at any costs but how about this link:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/39931-extra-sleepers-on-the-te/

 

[AlanB]

Henry,

As was noted in that topic on the Eagle, that was a one time thing where Amtrak was dealing with a group. A group that most likely paid extra to get that extra car put on the train. However, even if they didn't pay a premium, Amtrak still knew that they were going to sell every room and again it was a one time thing.

A one time thing is far different than running increased daily service that requires changing inventory, crew schedules, maybe even the amount of motive power. I'm not sure that adding one more car to the Chief might not now require an extra engine to get the train over the mountains properly. It might not, I don't know for sure what the limit is. The Texas Eagle doesn't have to face the Rockies.