Amtrak over formerly freight only routes....

[Ryan]

Did the Richmond to Norfolk service that is to start this December ever host passenger service?

 

[xyzzy]

Did the Richmond to Norfolk service that is to start this December ever host passenger service?

The connection from the ex-ACL to the ex-N&W is new. N&W trains operated into Norfolk until Amtrak eve, although they ran through downtown Petersburg not the freight bypass where the new connection is.

Get familiar with http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Amtk/routes_pre1971.html which will answer many questions.

 

[zephyr17]

The current route of the Southwest Chief (and former route of the Desert Wind) on the former Santa Fe 3rd District through Riverside, CA was freight only since about 1967 from Fullerton to San Bernardino. Did not get passenger service back until the Desert Wind was started in 1981 (?) when the Desert Wind ran via Fullerton and Riverside and 3/4 (Southwest Limited at the time) ran via Pasadena.

 

[railiner]

What about those absurd routes like the Lake Country Limited? I'm pretty sure their routes did not have passenger trains before.

and for that matter, the Empire connection into Penn Station...

Somehow, I doubt that has ever been a freight route.

Part of it was a freight route that ran down the West Side. The connection into Penn Station proper was a new addition, but most of that route was ex-freight.

Some of the Cardinal/James Whitcomb Riley reroutes almost definitely fall into this category. I suspect that another example of this would be the Sunset reroute when UP cut Phoenix. But if we remove reroutes between served stations on the same train from the list, I think the Downeaster would be one of your best examples.

Just wondering, but would any of the Michigan routes qualify for this?

Re the Michigan routes, I don't think so. Service over the ex-Michigan Central continued right up until A-day and then onward without interruption. The Pontiac extension had commuter service from the Grand Trunk until 1983. There was at least one Grand Trunk train (Maple Leaf?) over the Port Huron-Chicago route now served by the Blue Water, although there was a three year gap (1971-74) before service resumed. The C&O maintained the Pere Marquette until A-Day. Even with the Detroit-Toledo part of the Lake Cities, there was at least some C&O service until A-day (per http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cQ0VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=owIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6458,5031456).

The Blue Water used a combination Penn Central/Grand Trunk Western routing. Prior to Amtrak, the Grand Trunk Western used their own rails most of the way into Chicago.

Likewise, the Pere Marquette routing was a little different than when Amtrak started running from Chicago to Grand Rapids...

And I believe Amtrak used PC rails from Detroit to Toledo, not C&O....

 

[jphjaxfl]

N&W's Pocahontas was discontinued from Norfolk to Cincinnati on April 30, 1971. Amtrak started the Mountaineer from Norfolk to Cattlettsburg, Ky in 1974. From Cattlettsburg to Cincinnati the train was combined with the Cardinal. In 1978, the Mountaineer was changed to the Hilltopper from Boston to Richmond to Petersburg to Cattlettsburg. In 2-3the years the Hilltopper was discontinued and the former N&W returned to freight only in until the new Norfolk - Petersburg service begins later this year.

 

[LWBaxter]

Seattle to Spokane, WA via the x-GN line via Wenatchee was frieght only from AMTRAK day untill the North Coast Hiawatha was extended to Seattle via that route. It was again fright only from the Hiawatha's discontinuance, untill the Empire Builder was rerouted back to that line.

Pasco to Vancouver, WA was frieght only from Amtrak day untill the Portland section of the Enpire Builder was re-instated.

Most of the Cardinal's route from Chicago to Cincinatti was frieght only from befor Amtrak untill the cardinal was routed that way.

LWB

 

[railiner]

N&W's Pocahontas was discontinued from Norfolk to Cincinnati on April 30, 1971. Amtrak started the Mountaineer from Norfolk to Cattlettsburg, Ky in 1974. From Cattlettsburg to Cincinnati the train was combined with the Cardinal. In 1978, the Mountaineer was changed to the Hilltopper from Boston to Richmond to Petersburg to Cattlettsburg. In 2-3the years the Hilltopper was discontinued and the former N&W returned to freight only in until the new Norfolk - Petersburg service begins later this year.

Good ones!

Also added to the mix at Cincy, was the Shenandoah on the B&O from Washington. It featured that unique Amfleet coach with the pair of prototype Superliner economy bedrooms at one end....

 

[railiner]

Seattle to Spokane, WA via the x-GN line via Wenatchee was frieght only from AMTRAK day untill the North Coast Hiawatha was extended to Seattle via that route. It was again fright only from the Hiawatha's discontinuance, untill the Empire Builder was rerouted back to that line.

Pasco to Vancouver, WA was frieght only from Amtrak day untill the Portland section of the Enpire Builder was re-instated.

Most of the Cardinal's route from Chicago to Cincinatti was frieght only from befor Amtrak untill the cardinal was routed that way.

LWB

More good ones!

 

[George Harris]

Don't forget:

Wells, NV to Salt Lake City via the former WP

Temple to Taylor, TX via the former MKT

Memphis to Jackson, MS on the former Yazoo

Tehama to Roseville, CA on the former SP

Seattle, WA to Vancouver, BC on the former GN has benn frt only a couple of times.

LWBaxter

Another piece of former MKT: from the vicinity of San Marcos TX to San Antonio. I think it is being used in conjunction with the form MoPac line as if a two track main. Using it requires a back up move to access the San Antonio station, but I think using the MoPac main does also. Eitehr way, the Austin to San Antonio schedule is considerably slower than that of either the MoPac or the MKT when running their own trains. In fact,m I think the MoPac train was also gone before A-day, so both lines had been freight only for some time before the advent of the Texas Eagle.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

In 1978, Amtrak extended the Empire Service from Buffalo to Niagara Falls, NY.....it had been freight only since the early '60s about 10 years before Amtrak.

In April 1981, the joint Amtrak/VIA Maple Leaf was inaugurated and passenger service was further extended to Niagara Falls, ON. The last passenger train across the Whirlpool Bridge had been the CN-Lehigh Valley RR's "Maple Leaf" in Feb. 1961.

 

[railiner]

In 1978, Amtrak extended the Empire Service from Buffalo to Niagara Falls, NY.....it had been freight only since the early '60s about 10 years before Amtrak.

In April 1981, the joint Amtrak/VIA Maple Leaf was inaugurated and passenger service was further extended to Niagara Falls, ON. The last passenger train across the Whirlpool Bridge had been the CN-Lehigh Valley RR's "Maple Leaf" in Feb. 1961.

Another good example.

 

[DAWall]

The Cardinal through Indiana runs on several long time freight only lines.

The B&O Indianapolis to Cincinnati lost its passengers in the early 1900's

The Peoria and Eastern railroad Indianpolis to Crawfordsville losts its passenger trains in the 1950's

The Monon Crawfordsville to Dyer lost its passenger train in 1967.