Amtrak needs to allow unboxed bikes on its Baggage and Superliners

[steamtrain6868]

Amtrak Call to Action

Dear Trail Supporter:

The Allegheny Trail Alliance and the Trail Town Program have been advocating for the roll-on/roll off service along Amtrak’s Capitol Limited Route and need your continued help! Thanks to your support we are that much closer to seeing this happen, and you can still contribute! The attached letter thanks Amtrak for their interest and encourages them to provide this service as soon as they can. Please adapt the letter below and make the necessary changes (highlighted as red text) to personalize it for your own situation and interest.

Amtrak prefers hard copies rather than e-mails, so we ask that you send a copy directly to the address listed in the supplemental letter below. Also, please mail a copy of your letter to the ATA at P.O. Box 501, Latrobe, PA 15650, or e-mail it to [email protected]

Your immediate help is necessary and greatly appreciated! Thank you for your time!

Letter of Support

Date

Mr. Joseph H. Boardman

President and CEO of Amtrak

National Railroad Passenger Corporation

60 Massachusetts Avenue, NE

Washington, DC 20002

Dear Mr. Boardman,

Thank you for your interest in providing enhanced bicycle service on the Capitol Limited. I am excited by the prospect of being able to roll-on and roll-off on the Capitol Limited route between Pittsburgh, PA and Washington, DC. I am encouraged with the news that it might be available in Spring 2011. I want to bike the Great Allegheny Passage and the C&O Canal towpath and appreciate the opportunity to ride the rails before I ride the trails. I look forward to using the service every year/month/week, especially between x and y.

We appreciate Amtrak’s commitment to enhancing tourism opportunities and multi-modal transportation networks.

Sincerely,

(Your signature)

Copy: Ray LaHood, Secretary, U. S. Department of Transportation

1200 New Jersey Ave, SE

Washington, DC 20590

 

[steamtrain6868]

I am not saying to alow bikes on single leval cars....But that bikes be alowed on the lower level of the Superliners. Also most bikes have quick release wheels and can be colapsed down. Cal Trains allow bikes on there trains. I would also be willing to sign a release for damage in the Bagage cars.

 

[PaulM]

Whenever I plan to ride the Great Allegheny Passage, I check out Yahoo's GAP group for trail updates. Last fall this subject was all the rage. At that time I commented that none of the advocates had an inkling of how radical this idea would be. To my knowledge, no LD train has ever had this type of service.

I also suggested that the only feasible way would be to use coach-baggage cars. But someone quickly pointed out the reduced coach capacity if coach-bags were substituted for full coaches.

FWIW my wife and I have gone to folding bikes which go as carry on luggage. With all the luggage, not to mention wheel chairs and baby carriages, there often isn't room in the superliner downstairs rack for folders, much less full size bikes.

The best bet would be the outside so-call ski lockers.

 

[pebbleworm]

Put some California style racks in the new baggage cars and it should not be a problem- picture here:

http://sf.streetsblog.org/2009/09/10/bike-capacity-to-increase-on-capitol-corridor-trains/

In a superliner coach or sleeper a bike still takes up a lot of room, although I've brought one dis-assembled and boxed (2 boxes) onto a sleeper. I've seen so many abandoned Amtrak bike boxes in stations that mutely prove that there is a fair number of bikes moving by train. Unfortunately, I think their policy is driven more by a few cranks going ballistic over a scratch or a ding than anything else. At least with the California racks, YOU put the bike in the rack and YOU take it out vs. some "shambling Amtrak halfwit who wrecked my bike-I'm going to sue!". Self service is probably the best way to go to avoid this problem. The bike racks do take up a lot of space (heck, half a car on CalTrain!), but in California, are usually almost full. I'm not familiar enough with single level trains to know where the racks could go in coaches or sleepers, but on Superliners a few could replace a bathroom....

 

[pebbleworm]

Where are those "ski lockers"? I saw a girl almost in tears because the agent said she could not check a set of skis to Winter Park, Co....

 

[AlanB]

Every Superliner car has a locker that is only accessible from the outside. The locker is near the end of the car. You need the attendant to open the locker for you, but it is not considered checked baggage. You bring the skis to the car yourself and place them in the locker after it has been opened.

The single level trains don't have this locker and therefore don't carry skis well at all.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Storing bikes on Amtrak's current generation of equipment would be a big deal. The Amfleets and Superliners are already highly capacity constrained; Amtrak's job is to transport people from place to place, and reducing that ability is tantamount to reduced ridership, which would result in the dismantling of Amtrak under the current political climate.

The baggage cars currently running on Amtrak's trains belong in museums. Our President is younger than the youngest of Amtrak's baggage cars. Let the implications of this sink in. Those cars have been banged around this countries deteriorating rail infrastructure with the barest minimum of repairs for the past 40 years, and when they entered into that service, some of them were already 30 years old. Their replacement has already been ordered, thank god. The idea of spending a penny to convert those cars to carrying unboxed boxes is farcical.

You seem to have tons of ideas, Steam. May I suggest you postulate them in terms where some of the people on this board, who know more about Amtrak's fleet and operating constraints than many Amtrak executives, can discuss with you your ideas in a way that you can formulate better strategies for getting them implemented?

You seem interested in action. I like that. Far too many of the rail advocates I know sit around whining, confusing motion with accomplishment, and noise with motion. Some of your ideas would be valuable if implemented- but you must keep in mind that many of your ideas are unworkable- or very difficult. I just outlined to you why implementing a bike carrying policy is a huge deal- a lot more than simply changing some words in Amtrak's policy. Properly implemented, it would probably require half a billion bucks worth of new modified rolling stock.

There are a lot of things that seem simple that really aren't. I hear all about ideas like this on the forum that I ignore. Because all I can do is laugh at the naivety of the person suggesting it- it sounds so simple, and it never occurs to them that what they are asking is actually monumental. But you seem driven. And I don't want to dampen that.

But perhaps you might try working with some of our more experienced members towards provision of actual change in the future. We need people who are willing to do more than just sit at their keyboard and rebuild the world in words.

 

[The Journalist]

I had read somewhere-here quite possibly-that the in-progress ViewBaggages (what are we calling the "Viewliner" baggage cars anyway? I digress...) would have racks for unboxed bicycles. This would seem to go quite a ways toward solving this issue, assuming they'll be used on all routes...

 

[Steve4031]

After watching a person with an unboxed bike bang his way through union station in Chicago, the last thing I want is to see bikes in a passenger area. If the cars were equipped to store them, maybe. But not now.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Why not allow folks to store their bikes in the surprisingly cavernous transdorms? Last time I rode in one there seemed to be plenty of extra space not being used for anything else.

 

[PRR 60]

I had read somewhere-here quite possibly-that the in-progress ViewBaggages (what are we calling the "Viewliner" baggage cars anyway? I digress...) would have racks for unboxed bicycles. This would seem to go quite a ways toward solving this issue, assuming they'll be used on all routes...

That's correct. The new single-level baggage cars will have bike racks.

It would not seem like a huge deal to retrofit racks into the existing baggage cars used for the Superliner trains. Buy some off-the-shelf racks and bolt them down. Maybe a couple of hundred million in stimulus funding would do the trick.

 

[rrdude]

I don't pretend to know the status of how much "space" is actually used in a baggage car during the peak summer months, but years ago, it seemed to me that even during the summer, there was PLENTY of room for bikes in baggage cars.

The only issue I see is having to provide a Conductor or AC to "Work" the baggage car to take the bike. GML, I dun't think Amtrak needs to (or can, or should) spend a DIME on the old baggage cars. But I do think they should allow bikes to be loaded into them, as is, and with a COMPLETE WAIVER of liability for scratches, damage, etc. Hang a bag tag claim check on the bike, and it is YOUR responsibility to walk to the bag car to retrieve it.

Of course is WOULD be better to have an area like CalTran does, but it does/would take away from needed revenue/toilet space.

Think of the bike as another cog in the intermodal wheel, and see where your mind takes you.

Each year we take our scout troop on a bike hike along the C&O towpath. I'd LOVE to be able to have the scouts put their bikes on at Rockville, and detrain in Cumberland and ride back down along the Potomac. As it is now, they have to be boxed, and extra fees, and it's just not possible.

p.s. Just wrote my version of the support letter, placed the stamp on the envelope, and it's awaiting our efficient US Postal Service for dispatch.

 

[Ryan]

I (for once!) agree with everything that rrdude said.

If anyone is interested in the original source for this, it can be located here:

http://www.atatrail.org/calltoaction.cfm

 

[steamtrain6868]

Sent out my letter too also I met DOT Secratary Lahood at the Leage of American Wheelman in DC and told him about the bike problem

 

[Guest]

What I am getting, is that Amtrak currently allows bikes, but they have to be in a cardboard box. Is that really all that unreasonable?

It was posted the there are many discarded (used) boxes seen at stations. If someone is really "poor", can't they simply grab one of these discarded boxes, and re-use it for their bike? I would think that recycling would please a cyclist.

How long does it take to unpack your boxed bike when you arrive at your destination?

Also, I think I would be more at ease, knowing my bike was safely stored away in a box where it would be far less likely to get scratched, or some mechanical part snagged and broken.

Sorry folks, I don't see this is a real problem nor a real inconvenience.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

What I am getting, is that Amtrak currently allows bikes, but they have to be in a cardboard box. Is that really all that unreasonable?

It's not unreasonable to me, but then I've never tried to carry a bicycle on-board. I don't think Amtrak needs to act completely unreasonable before they can be expected to improve upon their bicycle transporting options. It sounds like part of the problem is that a handful of cycle-friendly routes have shown how much easier it can be if someone takes the time to account for growing numbers of cyclists. I think some folks are growing concerned that the rest of the network has been too slow to address their needs and want to see some sort of improvement.

It was posted the there are many discarded (used) boxes seen at stations. If someone is really "poor", can't they simply grab one of these discarded boxes, and re-use it for their bike? I would think that recycling would please a cyclist.

I've yet to see any randomly discarded bicycle boxes at any of the stations I normally use. I also didn't see people complaining about the cost so I'm not sure where the dig at "poor" people came from or what bicycling has to do with recycling. My guess is that the cyclists just want easier and quicker access to their bikes and to not be restricted to stations that offer full baggage service. Things like that.

 

[rrdude]

What I am getting, is that Amtrak currently allows bikes, but they have to be in a cardboard box. Is that really all that unreasonable?

It was posted the there are many discarded (used) boxes seen at stations. If someone is really "poor", can't they simply grab one of these discarded boxes, and re-use it for their bike? I would think that recycling would please a cyclist.

How long does it take to unpack your boxed bike when you arrive at your destination?

Also, I think I would be more at ease, knowing my bike was safely stored away in a box where it would be far less likely to get scratched, or some mechanical part snagged and broken.

Sorry folks, I don't see this is a real problem nor a real inconvenience.

Nah, disagree it is a "problem". As it stands today, you simply can't ride up to the train station, hop off your bike, and wait for the train. (except at certain CalTrain stations, and a very few select Amtrak routes/stations)

First, the ROUTE the train travels has to accept CHECKED BAGGAGE.

Second, the STATION that you are boarding has to offer CHECKED BAGGAGE.

Third, the hassle of taking off pedals, turning handle bars, and boxing is well, a hassle.

Fourth, one needs a box. (I see no reason why one couldn't re-use/recycle a box, but you will still get charged for it)

Fifth, it's more expense than it should be.

Sixth, if I had an option, and could CHOOSE to place my un-boxed bike in the baggage car, I'd do it. Scratches don't impact the ride of the bike, but I know most people don't feel that way.......

 

[Cristobal]

What I am getting, is that Amtrak currently allows bikes, but they have to be in a cardboard box. Is that really all that unreasonable?

It was posted the there are many discarded (used) boxes seen at stations. If someone is really "poor", can't they simply grab one of these discarded boxes, and re-use it for their bike? I would think that recycling would please a cyclist.

How long does it take to unpack your boxed bike when you arrive at your destination?

Also, I think I would be more at ease, knowing my bike was safely stored away in a box where it would be far less likely to get scratched, or some mechanical part snagged and broken.

Sorry folks, I don't see this is a real problem nor a real inconvenience.

Nah, disagree it is a "problem". As it stands today, you simply can't ride up to the train station, hop off your bike, and wait for the train. (except at certain CalTrain stations, and a very few select Amtrak routes/stations all of the Amtrak California and Capitol Corridor routes)

First, the ROUTE the train travels has to accept CHECKED BAGGAGE.

Second, the STATION that you are boarding has to offer CHECKED BAGGAGE.

Third, the hassle of taking off pedals, turning handle bars, and boxing is well, a hassle.

Fourth, one needs a box. (I see no reason why one couldn't re-use/recycle a box, but you will still get charged for it)

Fifth, it's more expense than it should be.

Sixth, if I had an option, and could CHOOSE to place my un-boxed bike in the baggage car, I'd do it. Scratches don't impact the ride of the bike, but I know most people don't feel that way.......

 

[PaulM]

Each year we take our scout troop on a bike hike along the C&O towpath. I'd LOVE to be able to have the scouts put their bikes on at Rockville, and detrain in Cumberland and ride back down along the Potomac.

Sounds like a commie-pinko plot to me. You are supposed to be teaching the kid to suck up to the pump. They need to learn at an early age to support Osama bin Laden like all red-blooded Americans.

As it is now, they have to be boxed, and extra fees, and it's just not possible.

You may be confusing people here. Boxes and fees are irrelevant since Cumberland doesn't have baggage service. Sadly, the station does have a ticket counter complete with a slot for baggage.

 

[Guest]

Does anyone have information on how many people take advantage of the bike racks that are on trains currently? I'm speaking of the routes where you actually reserve bike space when making a reservation.

It would be nice to know what percentage of these are being used -- similar to a passenger load factor percentage. If the number is high, that could be used as leverage to show how these services should be expanded to more routes. If it is a low number, that's another story.

There are a lot of things Amtrak "needs" to do, but unfortunately, that is already a long list. However, this issue may be perfect for the "squeeky wheel" theory.

 

[The Journalist]

You may be confusing people here. Boxes and fees are irrelevant since Cumberland doesn't have baggage service. Sadly, the station does have a ticket counter complete with a slot for baggage.

I think this is the main issue-a lot of places bikers would want to go don't offer checked baggage which, under the current arrangements, makes even boxing them up a non-starter. I'd hazard that a majority of cyclists would be willing to box up their bikes and check them if they could, but they often cannot. Whether or not this will change when the ViewBags with bike racks are in use is, as of yet, unclear, though the MORR and Lincoln both don't have baggage and have bike racks...somewhere (having never ridden these I'm not sure where they put them.)

 

[steamtrain6868]

If I recall.... Amtrak baggage cars require or required a union baggage handler to traval with the car? Its been years since I checked baggage. The last time I put something on a baggage car was my person when the train showed up and I was on the wrong side of the train. I had to hop hobo style to catch the one and only train of the day.

 

[AlanB]

Conductors put the baggage on/off the car, with the assistance of station personel. That could be a redcap, a baggage handler, or the station agent depending on the station.

 

[leemell]

I don't pretend to know the status of how much "space" is actually used in a baggage car during the peak summer months, but years ago, it seemed to me that even during the summer, there was PLENTY of room for bikes in baggage cars.

The only issue I see is having to provide a Conductor or AC to "Work" the baggage car to take the bike. GML, I dun't think Amtrak needs to (or can, or should) spend a DIME on the old baggage cars. But I do think they should allow bikes to be loaded into them, as is, and with a COMPLETE WAIVER of liability for scratches, damage, etc. Hang a bag tag claim check on the bike, and it is YOUR responsibility to walk to the bag car to retrieve it.

Of course is WOULD be better to have an area like CalTran does, but it does/would take away from needed revenue/toilet space.

Think of the bike as another cog in the intermodal wheel, and see where your mind takes you.

Each year we take our scout troop on a bike hike along the C&O towpath. I'd LOVE to be able to have the scouts put their bikes on at Rockville, and detrain in Cumberland and ride back down along the Potomac. As it is now, they have to be boxed, and extra fees, and it's just not possible.

p.s. Just wrote my version of the support letter, placed the stamp on the envelope, and it's awaiting our efficient US Postal Service for dispatch.

Just a side point, the Los Angeles Metro trains allow bikes aboard. Roll on , roll off. Of course there is no baggage car. :giggle:

 

[PerRock]

does Amtrak require you to use their boxes? or can you use your own?

peter