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Andrew

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Amtrak states that they are considering extending the tunnel box west towards 12th avenue "if development continues west." But, why not use TBM's?
 
The tunnel box would be the starting point for TBMs or more likely prefab tunnel sections placed into a trench across the river .
 
RRRick said:
The tunnel box would be the starting point for TBMs or more likely prefab tunnel sections placed into a trench across the river .
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No. There will be no trench. That method has been explicitly excluded by both the Army Corp of Engineers and the EPA, because it will stir up too much settled chemical pollution from the bottom. The tunnels will be TBM bored tunnels, and they will be deeper than the current tunnels.
Also, the tunnel box is not necessarily the starting point of the TBM tunnel. There will be a shaft somewhere in the vicinity of the edge of the river for launching the TBMs under the river. The details are not know at present.

The tunnel box is just to save an underground ROW under construction of Hudson Yards complex that is starting off right now. If that ROW was not saved there would have been no easement left to get to Penn Station from the west side. That is why it is being handled as an urgent project at this time. In a similar fashion the Empire Connection easement was built under the LIRR Yard quite a while before the actual Empire Connection was built.
 
1. What happens if Amtrak figures out that tunnels can not be bored on that alignment--does the tunnel box eventually only become a storage space for trains?

2. If Amtrak said that they they are looking at extending the tunnel box, doesn't that mean to 30th street and 12th avenue? (I just do not see them extending the tunnel box directly under 31st street to 12th avenue)...
 
1. Hopefully that won't happen :) If that happens then there will not be any additional tunnels into Penn Station from the west. Maybe we'll then be back to Macy's basement as in ARC :) Because it is known that a tunnel can be bored along the ARC alignment.

2. I don't know. Haven't seen the plan drawings for that part yet. Will probably know more in a couple of weeks.
 
jis said:
1. Hopefully that won't happen :) If that happens then there will not be any additional tunnels into Penn Station from the west. Maybe we'll then be back to Macy's basement as in ARC :) Because it is known that a tunnel can be bored along the ARC alignment.

2. I don't know. Haven't seen the plan drawings for that part yet. Will probably know more in a couple of weeks.
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1. Lolz, if that happens, than perhaps Seven Extension to Secaucus is better than ARC?

2. What is more likely to fund Gateway--annual appropriations or RRIF Loan?
 
How powerful is Amtrak's "lobbying" in Washington to get the Gateway Program to become a reality?
 
Andrew said:
Amtrak states that they are considering extending the tunnel box west towards 12th avenue "if development continues west." But, why not use TBM's?
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Too shallow. You can't use TBMs until you're at a certain depth. These tunnel boxes have to start at Penn Station track level and slowly go down at a shallow angle before they're deep enough to use TBMs. Second Avenue Subway did this too -- it's called the "launch box".
 
Nathanae said:
Andrew said:
Amtrak states that they are considering extending the tunnel box west towards 12th avenue "if development continues west." But, why not use TBM's?
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Too shallow. You can't use TBMs until you're at a certain depth. These tunnel boxes have to start at Penn Station track level and slowly go down at a shallow angle before they're deep enough to use TBMs. Second Avenue Subway did this too -- it's called the "launch box".
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But, Amtrak was looking at continuing the tunnel box southwest to 30th street and 12th avenue in PDF I saw from last March. I then heard that they are looking at 31st street. How would Hudson Yards' Construction impact where they decide to enter Manhattan?
 
I guess that depends on knowing the presence of the river's bedrock profile, how deep would the drill or cutting apparatus go in order to stay surrounded by hard bedrock instead of watery mud.
 
1. When is the Hudson Yards Phase 2 going to begin construction?

2. Suppose that Gateway can not get built, what is the better alternative: restarting ARC, or Seven Subway Extension to Secaucus?
 
Andrew said:
1. When is the Hudson Yards Phase 2 going to begin construction?

2. Suppose that Gateway can not get built, what is the better alternative: restarting ARC, or Seven Subway Extension to Secaucus?
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1. Ask the developers for Hudson yards.

2. Why would Gateway not be able to get built, but the more expensive and less useful ARC concept would? With the tunnel box protecting the access to NYP, there should be no technical reasons that critical parts of the Gateway project can't be built. It is a question of money and politics.

Again, you persist in asking speculative questions that no one can answer.
 
I just wonder if the tunnel depth at 12th avenue will (eventually) be deep enough to be below the Hudson Riverbed?
 
John Bobinyec said:
afigg said:
Again, you persist in asking speculative questions that no one can answer.
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Tunnel vision.

jb
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You win the thread.
 
Well, hopefully next week's NJ ARP meeting will discuss the trans-hudson capacity crisis, and what is being done to mitigate future congestion...
 
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