Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFW

[john h]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

 

[Texan Eagle]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

 

[Gratt]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

Oh TxDOT loves doing studies which just get us hopeful and then noting comes of it.

Did you see the one for AUS-HOU?

http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/rail/austin_houston_final.pdf

I need to make a posting on this if no one around here has seen it.

 

[john h]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

on question 2 there is already Dallas-Ft Worth -Austin- San Antonio or did I misread what you are saying

 

[Texan Eagle]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

on question 2 there is already Dallas-Ft Worth -Austin- San Antonio or did I misread what you are saying

Corridor service please? A once-a-day train ambling along at a leisurely pace taking 10 hours to go from Dallas to San Antonio hardly helps as an effective mode of transportation.

 

[john h]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

on question 2 there is already Dallas-Ft Worth -Austin- San Antonio or did I misread what you are saying

Corridor service please? A once-a-day train ambling along at a leisurely pace taking 10 hours to go from Dallas to San Antonio hardly helps as an effective mode of transportation.

True once I did not get to San Antonio until about 1am

 

[boxcar479]

I agree with gratt , the only reason they are looking at Shreveport is because they have already STUDIED the Dallas - Houston corridor train to death! We will never have HSR to Houston nor Shreveport IMO

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I heard that TXDOT is on some sort of accelerated Sunset Review schedule and that they may be dissolved at some point in the future. Not sure what that would mean or what would replace them, but in a state where our own governor can't wait to make another threat to secede from the union I suppose anything is possible.

 

[afigg]

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

Amtrak has put out a 3 page press release on the study which the obvious source of much of the info in the newspaper article. Study is for a 79 mph corridor service, by the way.

1. UP is the rail capacity modeling, so they are part of the study team. of course, their capacity modeling may come back and say they need $250 million for track upgrades for the route.

2. Who says this corridor is higher priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-San Antonio?

3. TX DOT got 2 grants for the study, one federal grant is stated at $265K, no specifics on the source of the second grant. But this is a $745K study which is small potatoes. Not a lot of money being spent here. Can't add new services without going through the first step of an initial feasibility and cost study. Most initial studies don't go anywhere, but some do.

Looking at the map, the route does have the advantage of being an existing Amtrak route with an extension to Shreveport. If the study concludes that a corridor service can be started from FTW/Dallas to Shreveport at low cost with decent trip times, maybe it becomes the low hanging fruit for starting additional corridor train services in TX in the nearer term than Dallas to San Antonio. If TX is willing to fund the Heartland Flyer in cooperation with OK, TX could team up with Louisiana on a FTW to Shreveport service. Odds are against this study leading to anything in the near future though. Especially with Senator Hutchison leaving at the end of the term, if her office was key in getting the study funding.

 

[Anderson]

I've gathered that while Texas isn't chomping at the bit to get services started up, it's not like UP is super-duper cooperative as a rule.

 

[TexRail]

Here is the link for the star-telegram. Looks like they might add another stop to the Eagle.

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/honkin_mad/2012/03/gamblers-take-note-amtrak-exploring-fort-worth-to-shreveport-passenger-rail-service-east-texas-suppo.html

 

[TexRail]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

The answer to question 2 is simple. People will actually ride it. Going to the casino is a leisure activity. People like our slower LD trains when taking leisure trips. People don't like our slower LD trains when they need to get somewhere for business or when time is even a minor factor. The amount of people that go to the LA casinos from DFW is huge. Another factor is that the people like to drink while on these casino excursions. This way, they can drink legally enroute and the trip home would be safer for everyone. Anyone that has been to a casino knows how they like to get people liquored up. Another plus is that it will keep people from going to WinStar Casino, north of the border. WinStar is not a real casino. Few table games and they make you pay an ante for blackjack. Honestly, who does that? But that is another story.

I wouldn't be surprised if this train was regularly sold out if it exists one day. But this train has been talked about for decades so I will believe it when I see it. On a side note, where would they get the equipment? From my understanding, there isn't a lot of extra passenger cars laying around.

 

[Anderson]

It's possible that they might be able to get an equipment grant out of either an earmark or a future funding pool (and/or the cars might be thrown onto the existing bilevel order, pushing it from the current 130 up to 135 or 140). It's also possible that they might be able to scrape together cars from that order indirectly by shifting Horizons or existing bilevels around. Mind you, I'm not opposed to such an idea...honestly, letting a state have a particularly "light ride" on the cost of their first equipment sets (i.e. either giving them a direct subsidy for the cars or letting them use cars out of the existing fleet and buying Amtrak replacements) is probably the best way to get them to go in for projects. If I'm Joe Legislator, I don't want to drop $50 or $100 million on a project that might go unused (and we've seen plenty of those over the years).

 

[Texan Eagle]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

The answer to question 2 is simple. People will actually ride it. Going to the casino is a leisure activity. People like our slower LD trains when taking leisure trips. People don't like our slower LD trains when they need to get somewhere for business or when time is even a minor factor. The amount of people that go to the LA casinos from DFW is huge. Another factor is that the people like to drink while on these casino excursions. This way, they can drink legally enroute and the trip home would be safer for everyone. Anyone that has been to a casino knows how they like to get people liquored up. Another plus is that it will keep people from going to WinStar Casino, north of the border. WinStar is not a real casino. Few table games and they make you pay an ante for blackjack. Honestly, who does that? But that is another story.

I wouldn't be surprised if this train was regularly sold out if it exists one day. But this train has been talked about for decades so I will believe it when I see it. On a side note, where would they get the equipment? From my understanding, there isn't a lot of extra passenger cars laying around.

Ok, I have lived in Texas for only eight months now and didn't know about this going-to-LA-for-casino tradition (why didn't anyone tell me about it?

) So if this proposed train is mainly going to cater to leisure traffic, as opposed to a real corridor-style business traffic, it might be worth it to persuade the casinos in Shreveport to chip in for the train service, something like how the Atlantic City Express Service (ACES train) runs from New York to Atlantic City. This way you dont have to worry about how will Amtrak provide equipment. The casino guys can arrange for whatever kind of swanky crazy type of trainset as they desire!

 

[eagle628]

So if this proposed train is mainly going to cater to leisure traffic, as opposed to a real corridor-style business traffic, it might be worth it to persuade the casinos in Shreveport to chip in for the train service, something like how the Atlantic City Express Service (ACES train) runs from New York to Atlantic City.

Right, 'cause that's been such a resounding success... hboy:

 

[TexRail]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

The answer to question 2 is simple. People will actually ride it. Going to the casino is a leisure activity. People like our slower LD trains when taking leisure trips. People don't like our slower LD trains when they need to get somewhere for business or when time is even a minor factor. The amount of people that go to the LA casinos from DFW is huge. Another factor is that the people like to drink while on these casino excursions. This way, they can drink legally enroute and the trip home would be safer for everyone. Anyone that has been to a casino knows how they like to get people liquored up. Another plus is that it will keep people from going to WinStar Casino, north of the border. WinStar is not a real casino. Few table games and they make you pay an ante for blackjack. Honestly, who does that? But that is another story.

I wouldn't be surprised if this train was regularly sold out if it exists one day. But this train has been talked about for decades so I will believe it when I see it. On a side note, where would they get the equipment? From my understanding, there isn't a lot of extra passenger cars laying around.

Ok, I have lived in Texas for only eight months now and didn't know about this going-to-LA-for-casino tradition (why didn't anyone tell me about it?

) So if this proposed train is mainly going to cater to leisure traffic, as opposed to a real corridor-style business traffic, it might be worth it to persuade the casinos in Shreveport to chip in for the train service, something like how the Atlantic City Express Service (ACES train) runs from New York to Atlantic City. This way you dont have to worry about how will Amtrak provide equipment. The casino guys can arrange for whatever kind of swanky crazy type of trainset as they desire!

If the casinos want to pitch in, I'm all for it but I won't hold my breath. There have been some big casinos go out of business in Bossier so not even casinos are making it rain, particularly in this economy. A casino train might scare away some regular travelers anyway. Some people might even think the casino crowd is too rowdy to be around for 5 hrs. I don't want to alienate those pax on trips to grandma's house. If the line opens, advertise it as what it is; a train from DFW to Bossier. Let the chips fall where they may. The public will create their own possibilities and no doubt the casinos will do some aggressive advertising. If the train is high capacity then no need for the casinos to even spend money advertising the train. Only so many pax can ride per day.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Some Texans gamble in Louisiana or Oklahoma, but most go to Nevada. At least that's how things are down here in South Texas. We also go to Florida for the mouse and Colorado for the mountains. Shreveport? I just don't see it as a huge destination for most Texans, but maybe things are different in DFW?

 

[TexRail]

Some Texans gamble in Louisiana or Oklahoma, but most go to Nevada. At least that's how things are down here in South Texas. We also go to Florida for the mouse and Colorado for the mountains. Shreveport? I just don't see it as a huge destination for most Texans, but maybe things are different in DFW?

It's a 3 hour drive from DFW to Bossier. It is very popular to go for the day or a quick overnight trip. I've even taken Amtrak and their bus connection. There are also some bus services that cater to gamblers. As much as I like riding the train, the bus is just too much of a pain. If I were to go back, it would be in a car unless this line opens. I definitely wouldn't drive much more than 3 hrs to get there which is probably why it's just a DFW/east TX thing. But the casinos are pretty decent and they are full service casinos unlike the closer casinos in OK that I've seen.

 

[trainviews]

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

In short: because of local political support.I don't know if the priority is higher, but it is only on the map because the communities along the corridor has mounted a decades long lobbying effort, and that's what's paying off. It seems to me that railwise there is some difference between north and south in Texas. As far as i understand it was also the communities in North Texas that mounted the effort that got Hutchison to jump in save the Eagle, and somehow they also got the state to chip in for its share of the Heartland flyer...

 

[Anderson]

This seems like a lot of money to spend in a study, however maybe it would be a casino route for some in DFW

Amtrak and TxDOT to study new service from SHV to DFWShreveport Times

MARSHALL, Texas –Amtrak and the Texas Department of Transportation agreed on the scope of a $745000 feasibility study today for new Amtrak service between Shreveport-Bossier City following the Interstate 20 corridor to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Question 1: Will UP ever agree to host passenger trains on its line?

Question 2: How is this corridor-service higher in priority than Dallas-Houston or Dallas-Austin-San Antonio corridor service?

Question 3: How does state of Texas come up with so much money to do all these feasibility studies only to eventually shelve the plans?

The answer to question 2 is simple. People will actually ride it. Going to the casino is a leisure activity. People like our slower LD trains when taking leisure trips. People don't like our slower LD trains when they need to get somewhere for business or when time is even a minor factor. The amount of people that go to the LA casinos from DFW is huge. Another factor is that the people like to drink while on these casino excursions. This way, they can drink legally enroute and the trip home would be safer for everyone. Anyone that has been to a casino knows how they like to get people liquored up. Another plus is that it will keep people from going to WinStar Casino, north of the border. WinStar is not a real casino. Few table games and they make you pay an ante for blackjack. Honestly, who does that? But that is another story.

I wouldn't be surprised if this train was regularly sold out if it exists one day. But this train has been talked about for decades so I will believe it when I see it. On a side note, where would they get the equipment? From my understanding, there isn't a lot of extra passenger cars laying around.

Ok, I have lived in Texas for only eight months now and didn't know about this going-to-LA-for-casino tradition (why didn't anyone tell me about it?

) So if this proposed train is mainly going to cater to leisure traffic, as opposed to a real corridor-style business traffic, it might be worth it to persuade the casinos in Shreveport to chip in for the train service, something like how the Atlantic City Express Service (ACES train) runs from New York to Atlantic City. This way you dont have to worry about how will Amtrak provide equipment. The casino guys can arrange for whatever kind of swanky crazy type of trainset as they desire!

If the casinos want to pitch in, I'm all for it but I won't hold my breath. There have been some big casinos go out of business in Bossier so not even casinos are making it rain, particularly in this economy. A casino train might scare away some regular travelers anyway. Some people might even think the casino crowd is too rowdy to be around for 5 hrs. I don't want to alienate those pax on trips to grandma's house. If the line opens, advertise it as what it is; a train from DFW to Bossier. Let the chips fall where they may. The public will create their own possibilities and no doubt the casinos will do some aggressive advertising. If the train is high capacity then no need for the casinos to even spend money advertising the train. Only so many pax can ride per day.

To be fair, I think the answer there would be to split the train's numbering and have a "non-casino" car of some sort on one end of the train if that were an issue. I would also point out that in the case of the MSP-Duluth train, a casino at an intermediate stop was considered a major plus to the operation.

By the way, where would this train run vs. the planned alignment for the Crescent Star? I ask because if this train were successful, using a batch of cut-off cars at Bossier/Shreveport and using the casino run as a funding mechanism to connect the Crescent to Dallas would be viable. If you needed to, with this you could even run the through cars as Viewliners, use bilevels for the casino cut-offs, and take a page from Santa Fe and keep the two crowds apart and on separately-numbered trains.

When you get down to it, as far as I am concerned the presence of the casino(s) and their attached ridership market(s) simply serves as a mechanism with which to fund a passenger rail service and potentially create a market for other services. It is nothing more and nothing less; it could be an amusement park, a popular beach, or an airport and it would mean the exact same thing to me.

 

[rrdude]

Well, at least SWA won't cry too loud, as it looks like they don't serve Shreveport.

But a "Casino-Only" train? Ain't gonna happen, unless casino's/state pay the bulk. And the history in AC is awful.

A Reno-Style "Fun Train" might make sense, but that's not Amtrak's market.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It's a 3 hour drive from DFW to Bossier. It is very popular to go for the day or a quick overnight trip. I've even taken Amtrak and their bus connection. There are also some bus services that cater to gamblers. As much as I like riding the train, the bus is just too much of a pain. If I were to go back, it would be in a car unless this line opens. I definitely wouldn't drive much more than 3 hrs to get there which is probably why it's just a DFW/east TX thing. But the casinos are pretty decent and they are full service casinos unlike the closer casinos in OK that I've seen.

Ah, I see.

Incidentally, a friend and I bucked the Vegas thing and went for a casino trip to Lake Charles one weekend. It was a long drive from here with not much to see. Had to take a car because the train is much slower, has terrible hours, and only travels once every few days. Ended up taking much longer than a flight to Vegas without much of a payoff. With today's $4 gas prices only the most efficient vehicles on the road won't be feeling the pinch. It's amazing to think that as recently as 1998 gasoline was only $0.89 per gallon down here. In the end Lake Charles had one good casino and a few crappy and/or closed ones. It was fun enough for a first visit but probably not worth another car trip.

There are some bus companies that make that trip so you don't have to do the driving, but I think you have to buy a package deal with specific terms and dates to get the free bus ride and I'm not a big fan of buses anyway. They'd have to make it nicer than any of the buses I've ridden to make it feel like a good value. Lake Charles looks nice in some parts but it must be pretty polluted after seeing all the industrial exploitation going on in nearby areas. We also tried that Kickapoo Lucky Eagle thing down south on another trip. You know, the one down a dirt road in the middle of nowhere. I think I'd rather do Macau (some 8,300 miles away) before going back to the Lucky Eagle. But maybe some folks do actually prefer half arsed quasi-legal joints like all the billboards keep telling us. In the end it's just quicker, easier, and more enjoyable to do Vegas. Or Reno, for that matter. And you can reach Reno by train last I heard!

Well, at least SWA won't cry too loud, as it looks like they don't serve Shreveport.

Maybe they think that by aiming low they can finally get one past the goalies (airlines, road builders, bus companies, toll administrators, etc.) that have helped kill virtually every major attempt to increase passenger rail in the Southwest.

 

[jis]

So if this proposed train is mainly going to cater to leisure traffic, as opposed to a real corridor-style business traffic, it might be worth it to persuade the casinos in Shreveport to chip in for the train service, something like how the Atlantic City Express Service (ACES train) runs from New York to Atlantic City.

Most like - used to run, since we have not yet heard of the contract being renewed.... the contract ran out at the end of 2011.

 

[afigg]

By the way, where would this train run vs. the planned alignment for the Crescent Star? I ask because if this train were successful, using a batch of cut-off cars at Bossier/Shreveport and using the casino run as a funding mechanism to connect the Crescent to Dallas would be viable. If you needed to, with this you could even run the through cars as Viewliners, use bilevels for the casino cut-offs, and take a page from Santa Fe and keep the two crowds apart and on separately-numbered trains.

When you get down to it, as far as I am concerned the presence of the casino(s) and their attached ridership market(s) simply serves as a mechanism with which to fund a passenger rail service and potentially create a market for other services. It is nothing more and nothing less; it could be an amusement park, a popular beach, or an airport and it would mean the exact same thing to me.

I think Amtrak and the supporters of a corridor service over this route would be wise to avoid a dedicated "casino" train. If they can get political and a little financial support from the casinos, fine. But a "casino" train might turn off as many customers as it gets and ties the service to the whims of the management of the casinos providing direct funding for the train. New management comes in, decides they can get a bigger cut of revenue with bus charter services and drops funding for the train. Besides a "casino" train would mark it as more of a novelty service for a certain group of customers and potentially turn off business and other leisure travelers who are not interested in going to the casinos.

As for the Crescent Star idea, boy, is that getting way ahead of the game. The first goal should be to get a new corridor service started. The Texas Eagle would benefit from track, trip time, and any station improvements from Fort Worth to Marshall TX and also see increased ridership from a bigger customer base on the segment. The TE is doing very well right now with a 13.7% increase in the ridership in the first 3 months of the fiscal year, easily the best of the LD trains. Keeps up, the TE may become one of Amtrak's top performing LD trains. The increased ridership and revenue for the TE may help with gaining political support for the Shreveport corridor service idea.

Back to the Crescent Star proposal, I believe it would have used what are now Kansas City Southern tracks from Meridian MS to Shreveport. Don't know if the plan was to run over UP or KCS tracks to Dallas. A corridor service to Shreveport would cover the cost of the station and the Marshall TX to Shreveport section. But there would still be the issue of the Meridian to Shreveport segment. Besides any major expansion or split of the Crescent is obviously not in the cards any time soon.

Looking at the UP and KCS system maps, if the FTW-Shreveport corridor service does come into existence, it looks like it could possibly be extended to Baton Rouge and New Orleans over KCS. Whether there would be any political support in LA for it, don't know, but wonder if a New Orleans to Shreveport to Dallas/FTW day corridor train would get enough business.

 

[fairviewroad]

So, where would the train stop in Shreveport?

One of the old stations burned to the ground years ago:

http://www.abandonedrails.com/Shreveport_Union_Station

Another currently lives on as a gay bar: