Amtrak: an "admirable passenger railway model"

[train person]

Now explain to me how it is legitimate transportation when its coach prices are out of reach of ordinary people.

$529 in coach from Toronto to Vancouver is not 'out of reach of ordinary people'. You might as well say that about Amtrak sleeper bedrooms reaching over $1000......

 

[jis]

Having traveled the Canadian four times now, I do mostly agree with NS VIA Fan's assessment. The dozens of flag stops on the Canadian route serve precisely the purpose of connecting remote people to population centers. Access is what people are looking for first, and fast would possibly be nice, but just access is more important. The fact they are able to load up the train with folks with money to spend on sleepers is good for everyone.

The two or three coaches do not run empty and I am told that net net the available fares are not all that bad in coach. I have never traveled in coach by the Canadian, so I would not claim anything based on first hand experience as far as that goes. OTOH, even in Sleeper I have always had one or two co-travelers who were dropping off at some flag stop in the boonies and a few that join from other flag stops in the boonies. So I have to assume that it provides some amount of actual transportation service even in the sleepers in addition to the tourist experience.

Ideally, one would imagine they could run the long tourist oriented train three days a week and run a short transport train with a few coaches a food service car and maybe a sleeper the other four days. But as stated if Ottawa is not going to cough up the money to subsidize that, VIA's hands are tied. There is not enough population in the boonies to make such a service self-standing financially, just like no road in the boonies would be financially self sufficient either.

VIA Corridor service OTOH is quite good. What it is lacking is frequency, and I don;t see how they can become financially viable without adding significantly to frequency. In the Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal triangle and even between Montreal and Quebec City potential ridership has got to be there to support such.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Now explain to me how it is legitimate transportation when its coach prices are out of reach of ordinary people.

$529 in coach from Toronto to Vancouver is not 'out of reach of ordinary people'. You might as well say that about Amtrak sleeper bedrooms reaching over $1000......

And there is really no need to pay the full fare. You always hear people saying the Canadian is too expensive......but just be a bit flexible and check out the "Express Deals" link on VIA’s Home Page.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Transportation is supposed tO be quick. Just because I don't fly does not mean I want to get there as slowly as possible. TrQnsportation, run legitimately, should not require people to be as flexible as over cooked pasta.

 

[jis]

Transportation is supposed tO be quick. Just because I don't fly does not mean I want to get there as slowly as possible. TrQnsportation, run legitimately, should not require people to be as flexible as over cooked pasta.

The fact is that both the Canadian and the Sunset Limited and Cardinal and even the Texas Eagle, are the way they are because of the respective political systems choosing to keep them that way. Both could be way quicker, but a choice has been made based on lord knows what. Anyway here we are where we are. They both still provide some useful service. Under a different situation they could provide better service, and under other circumstances they could be much worse too, like for example "no service at all", which at one point was a distinct possibility for the current Canadian route.

That is incidentally the actual case between New Orleans and Jacksonville. So you win some and you lose some. That is also the case between Newton and Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City and Barstow, Salt Lake City and Portland and the North Coast Hiawatha Route and Broadway Limited route west of Pittsburgh. In Canada that is effectively the case on the CP route.

Both Amtrak and Via are creatures of the respective politics in each country. They both do the best they can under the circumstances.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I disagree, and I've ranted about it enough already.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

.........It should be running at 110 mph behind P42s practically all the way from Elma to Edson, an arrow straight line running over the dinner table flat Canadian tundra.

They should take their 30 dining car staffs per train and their 60 year old equipment, replace the 30 car Canadian tri-weekly Canadian, and replace it with a 7-sleeper, 2-diner, 2 lounge, 5 coach Superliner set running daily at as fast a schedule as reasonably possible. It should be able to cover that distance in about 42 hours (same as the Chief) with its run through the Tundra, it should average close to 65 mph.

VIA Rail Canada is optimized to serve everybody but the transit dependent. All of their LD trains misconnect with each other, outrageous since their are only 4 of them, only 3 potential connections. (Canadian-Skeena, Canadian-Hudson Bay, Canadian-Ocean/Chaleur) There really is no excuse for it.

Again your lack of knowledge of Canada is so evident! The Canadian does not traverse “Tundra” between Elma and Edson……the landscape is no different than what you would experience on the Empire Builder across North Dakota……and in the Assiniboine River valley west of Winnipeg is far from an “ arrow straight line running over the dinner table flat tundra” as you say.

VIA’s trains do connect where there is a requirement. The Ocean and Chaleur routes are really an extension of the corridor and have very easy connections in Montreal. Anyone travelling between Halifax and the west is probably in no rush and the connections via Toronto would be just fine……they are more likely to be on the 5 hour non-stop ‘737.

Is there really a need for the Skeena and Hudson Bay to connect with the Canadian? These are remote services to get people along the routes into the closest large community. On the Hudson Bay, between The Pas and Winnipeg there are few passengers. Most have already disembarked at Thompson or The Pas to shop or for appointments before returning north. Someone connecting from the Canadian to the Hudson Bay is more apt to be a tourist (or railfan) and the layover in Winnipeg is really no big deal!

The Canadian is a tour train but still provides a “remote service” link to the larger centres. Besides the cost to the taxpayer you also have to look at the economic benefits these tourist leave during stopovers in communities such as Jasper National Park.

It makes no sense to replace the Budd equipment with a fast daily “Superliner” Canadian. What does make sense…….is a western “corridor” operation with a LRC type service between Winnipeg <> Calgary and Winnipeg <> Edmonton along with the proposed high speed trains between Calgary and Edmonton. But like Amtrak....until Ottawa want to invest in such a service, VIA’s hands are tied!

I agree with everything you have said here, and I was also add that even before the creation of VIA Rail both the Canadian and Super Continental never made the Toronto to Vancouver run in 42 hours, it was always around 69 to 70 hours through their lifetime under CP and CN.