American passenger rail system plagued with endemic delays

[GP35]

Recent reports show that the poor condition of America’s national passenger rail system, Amtrak, continues as usual.

Overall on-time performance for the entire Amtrak system was only 69.7 percent in April and 68.9 percent in May, according to Amtrak’s monthly report. These figures actually understate the severe and endemic delays outside of the northeastern region of the United States. Long-distance Amtrak trains, which operate over the tracks of private freight railroads, had an abysmal 40 percent on-time performance in April and 37.5 percent in May—that is, well over half of long-distance trains are late.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/aug2007/amtr-a01.shtml

 

[john h]

Recent reports show that the poor condition of America’s national passenger rail system, Amtrak, continues as usual.
Overall on-time performance for the entire Amtrak system was only 69.7 percent in April and 68.9 percent in May, according to Amtrak’s monthly report. These figures actually understate the severe and endemic delays outside of the northeastern region of the United States. Long-distance Amtrak trains, which operate over the tracks of private freight railroads, had an abysmal 40 percent on-time performance in April and 37.5 percent in May—that is, well over half of long-distance trains are late.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/aug2007/amtr-a01.shtml

On the way down to San Antonio last Thursday the conducter or agent gave out the phone number to the capital switchboard sop we could contact our representives to get things changed. Not sure if he was just doing that some customers could not complain toi them personally or not but I know we got to SAS at around 2am when we suppose to be there at 10:30pm....

 

[wkaemena]

Recent reports show that the poor condition of America’s national passenger rail system, Amtrak, continues as usual.
Overall on-time performance for the entire Amtrak system was only 69.7 percent in April and 68.9 percent in May, according to Amtrak’s monthly report. These figures actually understate the severe and endemic delays outside of the northeastern region of the United States. Long-distance Amtrak trains, which operate over the tracks of private freight railroads, had an abysmal 40 percent on-time performance in April and 37.5 percent in May—that is, well over half of long-distance trains are late.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/aug2007/amtr-a01.shtml

As we all know it not AMTRAK's fault to run late.... and on LDs enjoy the extra hours... heheh and if e.g. the CZ is coming 5h late into EMY see it this way .. it is only 10% delay... like an Acela from DC coming into PENN with 15min delay. Nevertheless the article put the finger right in the wound of the american desaster, the influence of Oil and Car and Tire industry on the disappearence of public transport

 

[someguy]

What a bleak picture! It's a pity there aren't more visionaries in the administration. With cost of fuel rising, airport congestion (and fuel costs), the railway offers an economic and more environmentally friendly way of addressing growing transportation needs.

One part of me thinks that the railways in the US have a great future opportunity, but another part of me worries that there won't even be a railway (other than save a handful of commuter and intra-urban routes) in 5 years.

No other western country I know takes such a short sighted view of the importance of the passenger railway and the contribution to infrastructure.

Cries for self sufficiency are ill-founded (and hypocritical anyway given the fast public funding for highway and airport / air traffic / air infrastructure projects). France has long conceded that the railways are a public service, and as a result require a public cash injection. No one in France is advocating a public money pit, but with careful management, and investment of public funds in infrastructure, the quality of life and contribution of the railways to France economically have far reaching effects.

Indeed, the public subsidy to Amtrak amounts to less than $3 per person per year - hardly a critical drain on society.

The on time performance issues have to be tackled, and the freight and passenger elements of the railway have to stop working in different worlds from one another and start looking at working in partnership.

Maybe it's a pipe dream - but I'd urge all of you whom are American to continue to keep the issue prominent, right to your local representatives and congresspeople - keep the issue in the forefront!

I'll step down of my soap box now

 

[jamesontheroad]

Just out of interest, what is the margin allowed for an Amtrak train to be considered 'on time'? I believe that here in the UK an intercity train can be up to 10 or 15 minutes late and still be considered 'on time', it might be slightly less for local or regional services.

*j* :blink:

 

[AlanB]

Just out of interest, what is the margin allowed for an Amtrak train to be considered 'on time'? I believe that here in the UK an intercity train can be up to 10 or 15 minutes late and still be considered 'on time', it might be slightly less for local or regional services.
*j* :blink:

The standard appears to be as follows: For a journey under 300 miles, the train must arrive within 15 minutes of the scheduled arrival time to be considered on time. For journeys over 300 miles, the margin increases to 30 minutes.

 

[Anthony]

Just out of interest, what is the margin allowed for an Amtrak train to be considered 'on time'? I believe that here in the UK an intercity train can be up to 10 or 15 minutes late and still be considered 'on time', it might be slightly less for local or regional services.

*j* :blink:

The standard appears to be as follows: For a journey under 300 miles, the train must arrive within 15 minutes of the scheduled arrival time to be considered on time. For journeys over 300 miles, the margin increases to 30 minutes.

It varies -- Acela has a flat 10-minute tolerance, while all other trains vary by total trip mileage. That means if a train is annulled en route, a new tolerance may apply to that shorter trip. Keep in mind that "journey" means total end-to-end mileage of a scheduled route.

Alan's message is generally correct, although the "steps" at which a train is considered on time are a little bit more granular than that. The 30-minute mark doesn't come until a distance of 500+ miles AFAIK.

 

[had8ley]

Recent reports show that the poor condition of America’s national passenger rail system, Amtrak, continues as usual.

Overall on-time performance for the entire Amtrak system was only 69.7 percent in April and 68.9 percent in May, according to Amtrak’s monthly report. These figures actually understate the severe and endemic delays outside of the northeastern region of the United States. Long-distance Amtrak trains, which operate over the tracks of private freight railroads, had an abysmal 40 percent on-time performance in April and 37.5 percent in May—that is, well over half of long-distance trains are late.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/aug2007/amtr-a01.shtml

As we all know it not AMTRAK's fault to run late.... and on LDs enjoy the extra hours... heheh and if e.g. the CZ is coming 5h late into EMY see it this way .. it is only 10% delay... like an Acela from DC coming into PENN with 15min delay. Nevertheless the article put the finger right in the wound of the american desaster, the influence of Oil and Car and Tire industry on the disappearence of public transport

But you know there is "something about a train." I read where a person said they would rather fight for a seat in the diner on Amtrak than fight for a donut and a cup of coffee, for a very healthy price, at an airport only to find out that the flight is either delayed or canceled. I'll still take my chances on the rails and let the masses overnight it on the floor at JFK.

 

[Buildy]

Well, on my recent transcon trip with my wife on Amtrak,we took 5 trains and everyone of them was late. Everything from engines dying on both the Empire Builder and Cal Zephyr to parts hanging off passenger cars,etc etc. Crews went dead twice in the middle of nowhere,and Amtrak had to wait numerous times in the hole for freights.

My trips:

1. Capital Limited-40 min late after actually having the potential to be early into Chicago,only to be held several miles from the station by"heavy freight traffic".

2. Empire Builder-Engine failure before train moved an inch in Chicago-entailing a 1 hr 30 min delay to change engine. At 12 am the train suffered another engine failure and sat in Minneapolis 1 hr 30 min again. I hoped to see some of Minn in evening daylight,but due to the first failure, that was not to be... Train,now 3+ hrs behind encountered numerous slow orders for bad track,so we got to see the eastern half of Montana and none of the mountains at all. We did get to see the Cascades the next morning,or the reason for booking the trip would have gone completely down the drain. Ended up about 4 hrs late into Seattle...

3.Coast Starlight-6hrs late for no apparent reason,no mechanical failures,just stopped numerous times for freight,and crew dying on the law,etc. lost a day of sightseeing in SF.

4. Cal Zephyr-45 mins late after the first stop,due to freight. Engine acting strangely in NV after a lovely crossing of the Sierras. On the second day,during our detour that was supposed to be hours quicker than the scenic Rockies crossing in Col,another engine died and it took forever and a day to climb the grades in Wyo,along with having to stop every half hour for 15 mins to let a slower freight stay ahead of us for some reason. Into Chicago 6 plus hrs late,and a missed connection for the Capital Limited. Got to try out a room at the Marriot in Northbrook Ill overnight...

5. Capital Limited-1 hr 30min late after the baggage car started falling apart.

So, I batted 1.000 on the late train express.

I know Amtrak is fighting a losing battle with the freight railroads and is not receiving adequate funding from the Govt to keep things up to snuff. I for one would love to see more of my tax dollars go to straightening out this mess than many other questionable things the govt blows our money on.

BTW,this was my first Amtrak ride,and many folks I talked to on the trains were also trying it out for the first time. Most of them were not impressed with the lateness of the trains,but loved the idea of riding on the trains. Most of the Amtrak employees were great,doing their best in sometimes frustrating situations,although I did encounter several that were in my opinion not suited for their jobs...

Forgot to mention that I got locked in the restroom on the last Capital Limited. Luckily a fellow passenger heard me struggling to open the door and together with him working the latch on the outside and me turning and jiggling the slide lock and latch I escaped from my windowless enclosure none the worse for wear...Just another snapshot of the condition of the equipment they are working with,I`d say.

I guess this is more a trip report of sorts,but it does illustrate a bit about the lackluster OT percentages Amtak suffers from.

 

[Guest]

Well, on my recent transcon trip with my wife on Amtrak,we took 5 trains and everyone of them was late. Everything from engines dying on both the Empire Builder and Cal Zephyr to parts hanging off passenger cars,etc etc. Crews went dead twice in the middle of nowhere,and Amtrak had to wait numerous times in the hole for freights.My trips:

1. Capital Limited-40 min late after actually having the potential to be early into Chicago,only to be held several miles from the station by"heavy freight traffic".

2. Empire Builder-Engine failure before train moved an inch in Chicago-entailing a 1 hr 30 min delay to change engine. At 12 am the train suffered another engine failure and sat in Minneapolis 1 hr 30 min again. I hoped to see some of Minn in evening daylight,but due to the first failure, that was not to be... Train,now 3+ hrs behind encountered numerous slow orders for bad track,so we got to see the eastern half of Montana and none of the mountains at all. We did get to see the Cascades the next morning,or the reason for booking the trip would have gone completely down the drain. Ended up about 4 hrs late into Seattle...

3.Coast Starlight-6hrs late for no apparent reason,no mechanical failures,just stopped numerous times for freight,and crew dying on the law,etc. lost a day of sightseeing in SF.

4. Cal Zephyr-45 mins late after the first stop,due to freight. Engine acting strangely in NV after a lovely crossing of the Sierras. On the second day,during our detour that was supposed to be hours quicker than the scenic Rockies crossing in Col,another engine died and it took forever and a day to climb the grades in Wyo,along with having to stop every half hour for 15 mins to let a slower freight stay ahead of us for some reason. Into Chicago 6 plus hrs late,and a missed connection for the Capital Limited. Got to try out a room at the Marriot in Northbrook Ill overnight...

5. Capital Limited-1 hr 30min late after the baggage car started falling apart.

So, I batted 1.000 on the late train express.

I know Amtrak is fighting a losing battle with the freight railroads and is not receiving adequate funding from the Govt to keep things up to snuff. I for one would love to see more of my tax dollars go to straightening out this mess than many other questionable things the govt blows our money on.

BTW,this was my first Amtrak ride,and many folks I talked to on the trains were also trying it out for the first time. Most of them were not impressed with the lateness of the trains,but loved the idea of riding on the trains. Most of the Amtrak employees were great,doing their best in sometimes frustrating situations,although I did encounter several that were in my opinion not suited for their jobs...

Forgot to mention that I got locked in the restroom on the last Capital Limited. Luckily a fellow passenger heard me struggling to open the door and together with him working the latch on the outside and me turning and jiggling the slide lock and latch I escaped from my windowless enclosure none the worse for wear...Just another snapshot of the condition of the equipment they are working with,I`d say.

I guess this is more a trip report of sorts,but it does illustrate a bit about the lackluster OT percentages Amtak suffers from.

Thanks for the trip report/insight Buildy.

When crews are said to 'go dead', does this mean they are 'out of hours'. If so, what happens, how do they get a new replacement crew in the middle of nowhere?

With the Coast Starlight, I'm dismayed to see several arrivals in the last couple of weeks that actually got into LA at 6am, or even 9am (as opposed to 9pm the day before).

When trains arrive a whole day late - is there any kind of compensation - 1 or 2 hours is one thing, but a whole day?! If the train was severely delayed (e.g. 12 hours) - what are the rules for cancelling travel on the day and getting a full refund?

Finally - I know there was a separate post about it - but because it's such a regular occurrence on the coast starlight, anyone have any experience with running out of food on these massive delays on the CS/11?

Aside from my questions as above, I can only re-iterate the musings/thoughts from my previous post above - clearly the current situation is unsustainable - and something needs to happen. It will take some pressure on many congresspeople and local representatives - so get writing, phoning and emailing!

 

[Buildy]

When crews "go dead on the law" it means they have reached their 12 hrs of service,and must stop the train and wait for a new crew to be brought to wherever they stop.

On the Coast Starlight part of my trip,the crew just left a station,went about 3 miles and shut off in the middle of nowhere in a field..... A van brings a new crew from the crew base city or town out to the train,which can take a considerable amount of time.

Not sure about compensation,perhaps some others here with more experience can shed some light on this. I haven`t tried to call about compensation for my trip.

I do know my wife was quite upset with all the delays on our trip and would rather drive next time...

Food,we ran out on the Empire Builder and the service personnel had to get subs from a Subway to feed us lunch the last day in Sleeper class....On the Cal Zephyr we got a tiny dab of stew in Sleeper class when we ran low...

Another thing about the way this works is,the people familiar with how railroads work can understand the reasons for some of this,but to the general public trying out train travel,it seems very frustrating to have to sit in a field for an hour or more for what seems to them to be no reason...

 

[MrFSS]

On the Coast Starlight part of my trip,the crew just left a station,went about 3 miles and shut off in the middle of nowhere in a field..... A van brings a new crew from the crew base city or town out to the train,which can take a considerable amount of time.

Why in the world would they leave the station when they know in a few minutes they will "go dead"?

Did they need the tracks in the station for other trains? Wouldn't it be easier for the crew van to get to the station than out in the middle of nowhere? Or, is this just more Amtrak there's no reason for it, its just our policy?

 

[Buildy]

I was wondering the same thing myself! It was the topic of conversation on the train for quite awhile. I don`t think it was due to a train needing the station,as no other trains were due to be there.

I think they just shutdown wherever the 12 hrs is up,unless it is unsafe to do so.

Perhaps someone who is in train crew service could shed some light on the procedure for us.

 

[wkaemena]

I think they just shutdown wherever the 12 hrs is up,unless it is unsafe to do so.Perhaps someone who is in train crew service could shed some light on the procedure for us.

If this would be the case then I would say brainless regulations for brainless people.... but it would not wonder. that is the future generation of robotic US citizen....

 

[frj1983]

wkaemena,

While I defend your right to say what you wish, I think your comment about "the future generation of robotic us citizen" slinks over the lines of good taste and might be taken by some as insulting.

 

[wkaemena]

wkaemena,
While I defend your right to say what you wish, I think your comment about "the future generation of robotic us citizen" slinks over the lines of good taste and might be taken by some as insulting.

what I wanted to express is, we are getting away from the spirit of people who discovered the "wild west" = not willing to do something extra only because somebody established some (useless) rules to be followed like a programe for brainless roboter

 

[Buildy]

I guess I would have to say that at the train engineer level of things on the RR,the rules are made to be followed. Perphaps where we need the innovative thinking is at the higher levels where railroad policies are made. As it pertains to the mess Amtrak is in with the freight railroads....

 

[gswager]

On the Coast Starlight part of my trip,the crew just left a station,went about 3 miles and shut off in the middle of nowhere in a field..... A van brings a new crew from the crew base city or town out to the train,which can take a considerable amount of time.

Why in the world would they leave the station when they know in a few minutes they will "go dead"?

Maybe they're giving the UP dispatchers a huge headache, blocking the traffic!

(edited to fix quotes - AmtrakWPK)

 

[wkaemena]

I guess I would have to say that at the train engineer level of things on the RR,the rules are made to be followed. Perphaps where we need the innovative thinking is at the higher levels where railroad policies are made. As it pertains to the mess Amtrak is in with the freight railroads....

Rules are good, but no rule without exception and if this "I think they just shutdown wherever the 12 hrs is up,unless it is unsafe to do so.Perhaps someone who is in train crew service could shed some light on the procedure for us." if true, it need an exception to something more flexible.

 

[George Harris]

First, understand that the 12 hour limit is FEDERAL LAW. It is called the hours of service law. It is not some company or union rule that can be bent to suit the situation. Unless everyone involved from the engineer on the train to several layers up in management can justify not stopping, there are serious penalties for running 12h01m. For many years, the hours were 16, not 12, but the change to 12 occured quite a long time ago.

Depending upon the company practices and the attitude of the crew, running out of time can be handled with greater or lesser inconvenience, but barring a very serious situation, before the elapsed time since signing in has run from 11h59m59s to 12h00m00s, the train must have come to a stop. Usually there are rules about stopping on bridges or blocking road crossings, but these still mean stop short of the going dead time.

As to the particular case of the stop "3 miles after leaving a station" we really have no idea why this was done instead of staying stopped in a station. Maybe the 3 miles was to enable the train to be placed in a siding, or clear of road crossings. There could have been many reasons for this, most likely none of which would have been obvious to the passenger.