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George K

George K

Conductor
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
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Location
The Chicago Burbs
So as not to derail another thread...

Hypothetical, of course.

Let's say I'm a oil rig worker somewhere in North Dakota, taking the EB to Seattle for a weekend of partying. I decide that I want to light up a smoke of...tobacco in the SSL. I do so, and not only am I on the train smoking something, but I've had 4, 5 or perhaps more beers, and I'm drunk and disorderly. It's now 2:30 AM, somewhere in eastern Washington State.

The crew decides to get me off the train.

1) Where does that occur? The next station?

2) Once I'm off, what are my options? After all, it's half past no o'clock in the morning. How do I get to my destination, or back home? If I'm in the middle of nowhere, what do I do?
 
1. Next station, or next grade crossing where you can get a cop to meet you.

2. Depends of if the cops want to lock you up or not. If so, you're spending the night in jail. If not, you're finding a place to sleep, or a rental car, or a bus station, or an airport, or a place to wait for someone to come pick you up. If you're lucky enough to be at a train station, you may buy a ticket on the next day's train and find somewhere to sober up for (hopefully) 24 hours.
 
Wow - at a grade crossing. That would ruin your evening, I'd say.

On my trip on the CZ last fall, we had a medical emergency that required stopping the train and backing it up to the nearest grade crossing (somewhere in Nevada) where the paramedics got the passenger off the train. Never considered that the police would do the same, but it makes all the sense in the world.
 
Yup, they'll just put you off at a pre-arranged point, be it grade crossing or a station if its close enough.

I was on the Ann Rutledge several years back on my way from Kansas City via St. Louis to Chicago. We picked up some fans heading for a ball game in CHI along the way. One of them got quite drunk and started hitting on several different women on the train. He was given several warnings by the crew, both the cafe attendant and the conductors gave him warnings. In addition to having cut him off. But still he continued.

So I heard over my radio a call go out to the UP dispatcher requesting police meet us in X town at X grade crossing to remove a passenger. And sure enough about 5 minutes later we stopped at a grade crossing, the police arrived and escorted Mr. Fan off the train and drove him to the local prison for a rent free night of rest and recuperation and detoxification. We started rolling a few minutes after the cops got off the train and his buddies got to see the ball game; but he didn't!
 
That's a scenario I would never want to find myself in. I have seen people put off the train in the worst possible places and though I felt bad for their predicament, I was glad they were gone. If you want to be stupid, you better hope you have a pocketful of money or a large credit card because it is going to cost you dearly. There is always an option if you have enough money, but if you don't......hitchiking with a hangover and probably getting arrested for that! Just don't do it.
 
I have witnessed two are three times where one or two drunk people were taken off the train at a grade crossing by the S.O., handcuffed and stuffed into the backseat. A Conductor told me that law enforcement has a zero tolerance for anyone who has to be put off the train, they consider it criminal to disrupt the operation of the train.
 
To be a nit-picking jerk :lol: :p that exact scenario is quite unlikely as the EB departs Spokane at 2:15 am if it is on time. You'd have been thrown off at Spokane. But as for the "middle of Eastern Washington" scenario regardless of time, there's a whole lot of nuthin' between Spokane and Wenatchee. You will HOPE you got thrown off in Spokane. Some of the rural counties have no cops on regular patrol at that hour; they are on call only then. Spokane at least has cops on duty 24/7 and I would much rather deal with one of them than someone who was drug out of his house at 0 dark 30 to drive to middle of nowhere to pick up the likes of you. :lol:
 
I've seen someone be threatened with being put off (a young woman who was either drunk or high and was being belligerent in the lounge car. She quieted down, at least she did for a while - I left the lounge about 20 minutes later but I don't remember any unexpected stops that trip so maybe she behaved).

Several times I've heard the conductors say (on the TE) that they WILL put people off at the next intersection/grade crossing and they will be met by the cops if the person smokes on the train. I kind of think most cops would consider that awfully small potatoes to mess with, but what do I know?

I do remember a trip where we stopped at a grade crossing. On the side of the train I was on, I saw a cop pull up, glove up, and get on the train. I wondered if it was drugs or something but later on someone at lunch (who was on the opposite side) said an ambulance pulled up and they took someone off. The rumor was the person was having heart symptoms and to be careful, they took the person to a hospital. I suppose cops get come out in that instance because they get called first.
 
I was trying to remember which trains. If memory serves me, one was the TE in rural Texas late at night. The other I think was daytime on the CL southern PA. Both times I know the person or persons were drunk since I saw them either in the DC or the SSL. I will say that the Texas officers I know would take something like causing the train to have to stop to put off someone as serious.
 
I personally witnessed a woman get put off the train at the Winter Park station, back in late 2011. She was put off for smoking, luckily for her, the southbound Silver Star was running over six hours. She was able to get a ticket to go back home that day.

My trip on the 24th, a woman had to be put off because she was going into labor from what I was told. They stopped the train at a grade crossing and the ambulance met the train there. There was one drunk person, but he really didn't cause much trouble on the train, except for a bid of comedy with the conductor.
 
the bottom line is: you never know how it's going to end up if you get smashed on a train and get noticed by the crew. That is a bad thing when they notice you. It means that you better go back to your seat and shut up and eat all your snacks and go to sleep. Some people don't understand the consequences of their actions
 
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I've seen a couple of cases of someone being put off. The "police question" really depends on how disorderly the passenger is being and/or how they react to being put off (if someone basically takes their lump, the odds of them spending the night in jail drop massively...and I get a feeling that being put off for smoking is a bit less likely to involve the police than drunk and disorderly...if it is tobacco that's being smoked. If you're looking at other stuff...well, that tends to get hilarious very quickly).

For the most part, I find that conductors would rather boot someone at a station than at a crossing...if just because it is probably less likely to get a grumble from the dispatchers.
 
Our conductors on the Auto Train always considered this a last resort, and they never did it without several warnings, but it did happen. The passenger was put off in the custody of police and the train continued on. Of course, you can't unload one vehicle from an Auto Carrier in the middle of the night in East Podunk, South Carolina, so the passenger's car continued to the train's destination where the passenger could pick it up. How he got himself there was his own business, but he probably had time to sober up in the meantime.

A lawyer could probably address this better, but I suspect Amtrak would always be sure the person was put off in the custody of SOMEBODY. This could mean an open, attended station, I suppose, but I think the rule requires the police be notified for something like public drunkenness. If the person were put off without an official "escort", he might have grounds for a lawsuit against Amtrak if anything happened to him after being ejected, since Amtrak obviously knew he wasn't in complete control.

If I were a rural police officer who was awakened in the middle of the night for an emergency call to remove some disorderly drunk from a train, I don't think I'd be in a very good mood when I got there to meet the person. And in such a situation, I don't think I'd like to be his "new friend".

For a medical emergency, the dispatcher always knows where the closest EMT's or hospitals are located. A quick phone call to Dispatch is all it takes to get the train stopped at the nearest practical meeting point.

Tom
 
I saw someone arrested and driven away in the sheriffs Ford Mustang... I thought that kind of cool and wild west.

I can't imagine that Amtrak can just decide to remove someone without passing them into the police custody.

The idea that they will just be abandoned alone in the middle of nowhere just won't happen.

I am sure that all law officers will behave in an even handed way to all, regardless of the time of night. (Unless

they don't like your accent, etc etc...)

Ed :cool:
 
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The question must be raised....it is one thing if a person in a sleeper consumes his own alcohol, or someone in coach illegally does the same; but what if the person got all of his alcohol from the train's bar? At what point is the bartender responsible for serving "too much" to an intoxicated person?

The point being....why serve alcohol on a train? True, people can enjoy it in moderation, but many can't. So why take the chance? Same problem on airliner's.

And speaking of airliner's...if they have to make an unscheduled landing to remove a drunk, that's big time trouble...federal violation for interfering with a flight crew?

Intercity buses prohibit consuming alcohol whether brought on, or served by an attendant. Of course, in that case, there is the danger of the driver being interfered with, while the train's engineer, and airliner's pilot are not.... Except that...on charter's, groups are allowed to consume alcohol...so go figure? :rolleyes:
 
Anyone ever seen Amtrak Police meet someone booted from a train? I realize that they have limited numbers, but I'm guessing that would be the preference if they could manage it.
 
BCL said:
Anyone ever seen Amtrak Police meet someone booted from a train? I realize that they have limited numbers, but I'm guessing that would be the preference if they could manage it.
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Not for being drunk, but I have seen Amtrak police board and remove a passenger trying to hide out in the bathrooms of an Acela train to avoid the fare. The police came on in Wilmington and the conductor opened the bathroom door and the offender was removed by the police.
 
As Alan indicated in his post, only Major Stations ( ie along the NEC, Chicago etc. ) have Amtrak Police. Most problems aboard Amtrak trains requiring LE intervention are handled by Locals or the Feds.

I have seen Amtrak Police riding on the train, but it is very rare outside the NEC.
 
The one removal I saw from the CZ was at Granby CO. The guy was sitting 2 seats ahead of me in an aisle seat. I don't know if he got the chance to smoke in SLC or not but he opened the window in the door and smoked his e-cig somewhere east of Glenwood Springs. When we pulled in to Granby, 3 police cruisers pulled in at the station. We were slightly delayed while they got his checked baggage off.

I believe the police held him until his girlfriend came to pick him up from Denver where he was ticketed to.
 
We've seen several passengers with early departures in the middle of nowhere.
For example:
On the CS heading north some years ago after a Tehachapi detour. Had some delays on the detour, but mostly caught up. Next day, train was barely off schedule when we got delayed somewhere in Oregon - host-railroad work crew was slow to clear.
Coach passenger was NOT drunk [had no money to buy anything], but was disorderly and abusive, to coach attendant, assistant conductor, conductor, and other passengers about the long wait.
Right after we passed the work crew, conductor announced we'd stop again soon. Next grade crossing, cops were waiting for the coach passenger and escorted him away in handcuffs. Only signs of civilization we saw nearby were the road, sheep and goats in pasture, and a barn.
Later, in the diner, a witness told us the abusive man had JUST been released from prison and had been on his way to wherever his parole was to be served.
Would guess his parole was altered a bit after that.
 
I was just told by a lawyer friend that disrupting interstate transportation (airline or Amtrak) by being abusive, disorderly, endangering themselves or others, etc. can be charged as a federal felony or as a local charge, depends on the local authorities and Amtrak. Bottom line, he said if the person is physical with anyone automatically he would expect maximum charges would be filed but could be negotiated down by the person's lawyer.
 
Lonestar648 said:
I was just told by a lawyer friend that disrupting interstate transportation (airline or Amtrak) by being abusive, disorderly, endangering themselves or others, etc. can be charged as a federal felony or as a local charge, depends on the local authorities and Amtrak. Bottom line, he said if the person is physical with anyone automatically he would expect maximum charges would be filed but could be negotiated down by the person's lawyer.
Click to expand...
Wow, so if you get arrested off of an Amtrak train you can be charged with a federal crime?
 
TylerP42 said:
Lonestar648 said:
I was just told by a lawyer friend that disrupting interstate transportation (airline or Amtrak) by being abusive, disorderly, endangering themselves or others, etc. can be charged as a federal felony or as a local charge, depends on the local authorities and Amtrak. Bottom line, he said if the person is physical with anyone automatically he would expect maximum charges would be filed but could be negotiated down by the person's lawyer.
Click to expand...
Wow, so if you get arrested off of an Amtrak train you can be charged with a federal crime?
Click to expand...
I'd imagine that you'd have to do something impressive for the feds to press charges. Most Assistant U.S. Attorneys have bigger fish to fry than a drunk 'n' disorderly charge.

Back to the original post, I've been told a couple of times by on-board staff that the preferred station to unload obstreperous passengers is Browning. While Montana law-enforcement officers are generally a no-nonsense bunch, the Blackfeet tribal police have, it is said, especially low tolerance for drunk and obnoxious miscreants.

That being said, the last time I saw an arrest on the Empire Builder was when the Border Patrol took two young ladies into custody at Minot. The officers seemed to have some advanced information, as they went directly up to the women and started asking questions.
 
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