Airlines

[GG-1]

Aloha

Interesting story on tonights news. Story was about statistics of late flights. 68% late, 12 over 5 hours on tarmac after leaving gate but not taking off. Plus other problems.

My question are the Air Lines trying to help Amtrak?

Mahalo

 

[frj1983]

Aloha
Interesting story on tonights news. Story was about statistics of late flights. 68% late, 12 over 5 hours on tarmac after leaving gate but not taking off. Plus other problems.

My question are the Air Lines trying to help Amtrak?

Mahalo

It just goes to show you that the problems are endemic throughout our entire transportation system. What concerns me the most is that people (both leaders and followers) will simply begin to accept this and not demand that anything be done about it or will not have the will to do anything about it...including "gasp" the possibility of raising taxes

 

[RailFanLNK]

My newspaper and Newsweek have been full of "how late flights have been" stories for the last two weeks. I always find it interesting when a person takes Amtrak once and whines to me "we were two hours late" but they consistently choose the airlines where they can be a day late or more but that is never brought up in the storyline of there trip. I don't get it! :huh:

 

[PRR 60]

Saying airlines are always late is as inaccurate as saying Amtrak is always late. I was on eight flights in July and seven were on-time or early and one was 30 minutes late. I was on three Amtrak trains and two were on-time (to the minute) and one was 20 minutes late. The media always accents the negative with both Amtrak and the airlines. Reality is never as bad what is reported.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Valid observations. Another, I think, would be to step back from "late" and label it what it is, which is "wasting my time". Then take a look at any flight experience and label almost all of the time spent not actually flying as "wasting my time", into which I lump driving to the metro airport (MCO in my case, 30 minutes to over an hour away, depending on traffic), walking at least half a mile from the car at the parking lot/parking garage, standing in line at the ticket counter, standing in line at security checkpoints, standing in line at the gate, and then after the flight lands, walking half a mile from the arrival gate to baggage claim, standing in line there, (etc...). So "late" or "wasting my time" is very prevalent throughout the experience of flying someplace. We just don't have the forthrightness to label it as such, or to consider all that wasted time, all that hassle, when we compare flying to Amtrak. By comparison, Amtrak WPK is 10-15 minutes from the house, and free parking at that station is 25-75 feet from the station entrance, and about 100 feet from the actual tracks. As I always pick up our tickets in advance, and monitor the trains by radio, I can leave the house 20 minutes before the train departs and still have a safety margin of a few minutes. If we have baggage to check, add another 15-30 minutes beforehand and another 5-20 minutes at arrival (different stations may have slightly different requirements, but nothing even remotely close to airport standards). By comparison, I have to leave the house two and a half to three hours, MINIMUM, before scheduled flight departure, if taking an airline flight. Longer if it's an international flight. That is MY TIME, that is wasted by the system, and the fact that I know it's going to be required doesn't mean that it is any less a waste of my time.

Realistically, when we say that a given flight is a one-hour flight, it really ought to be considered a five-hour flight if I have to leave for the airport three hours before departure and then waste an hour at the destination airport after touching down on the runway. Or call it what it really is, a one hour flight with four hours of delay (and a lot of unquantified hassle). Amtrak starts looking better and better.

 

[Mark]

Valid observations. Another, I think, would be to step back from "late" and label it what it is, which is "wasting my time". Then take a look at any flight experience and label almost all of the time spent not actually flying as "wasting my time", into which I lump driving to the metro airport (MCO in my case, 30 minutes to over an hour away, depending on traffic), walking at least half a mile from the car at the parking lot/parking garage, standing in line at the ticket counter, standing in line at security checkpoints, standing in line at the gate, and then after the flight lands, walking half a mile from the arrival gate to baggage claim, standing in line there, (etc...). So "late" or "wasting my time" is very prevalent throughout the experience of flying someplace. We just don't have the forthrightness to label it as such, or to consider all that wasted time, all that hassle, when we compare flying to Amtrak. By comparison, Amtrak WPK is 10-15 minutes from the house, and free parking at that station is 25-75 feet from the station entrance, and about 100 feet from the actual tracks. As I always pick up our tickets in advance, and monitor the trains by radio, I can leave the house 20 minutes before the train departs and still have a safety margin of a few minutes. If we have baggage to check, add another 15-30 minutes beforehand and another 5-20 minutes at arrival (different stations may have slightly different requirements, but nothing even remotely close to airport standards). By comparison, I have to leave the house two and a half to three hours, MINIMUM, before scheduled flight departure, if taking an airline flight. Longer if it's an international flight. That is MY TIME, that is wasted by the system, and the fact that I know it's going to be required doesn't mean that it is any less a waste of my time. Realistically, when we say that a given flight is a one-hour flight, it really ought to be considered a five-hour flight if I have to leave for the airport three hours before departure and then waste an hour at the destination airport after touching down on the runway. Or call it what it really is, a one hour flight with four hours of delay (and a lot of unquantified hassle). Amtrak starts looking better and better.

Ohhhhh! I could not agree more. Nor could I have said it better. Generally speaking flying, (for me), is an all-day affair anyway if you want to get the best price.

 

[RailFanLNK]

I'm an EXTREMELY busy person and when person(s) places or things "waste" my time, I usually let them know. I can't agree more with Amtrak WPK.Trying to explain the train over the airplane from LNK to CHI finally had some people nodding there heads. I didn't even factor in some of the things that Amtrak WPK posted. In LNK, its 7 minutes to our train station at midnight. I have yet to check baggage on Amtrak. When I travel, I travel efficiently and don't like luggin' multiple suitcases full of crap. LNK to OMA on I-80 is kinda like a daily "Moron Convention" of motorists. I have flown out of KCI and definately know about waiting for the bus to pick you up to get you to the parking lot that is about 10 football fields big etc. The simplicity of taking Amtrak is one of the reasons I have really grown to like it. I board at about 12:30am so I'm always dressed for "bed", usually asleep soon thereafter and love waking up to the Rockies in the far distant when we are nearing DEN on the #5. I remember last Labor Day getting off the #6 at 5:08am and being in my own bed at home at 5:14am. You can't beat that!

 

[saxman]

I'm a new pilot flying out of JFK Airport. I'll be honest. We're never ontime! Mostly due to late arriving aircraft, then JFK air traffic controllers only uses ONE runway for departure during the afternoon international push. Therefore you're easily number 20 or 30 in line. Average time for us to taxi in after we land is at least 30 minutes. So as I sit there wondering if our passengers are giving our poor flight attendant a hard time because they're going to miss their connection, I wonder who in their right mind would fly into JFK!? Most of the flights I do are very short, like to DCA or Baltimore or countless times to Boston, Hartford, or even Richmond and Philadelphia. Normally our BOS or DCA flights are scheduled at 1.5 hours. Granted we add lots of taxi time too. But I'm just thinking how much faster someone could take Amtrak then leave 2 or 3 hours to get to JFK or BOS or wherever. Then find out our flight is late. Then wasting 5 hours just to get down or up to JFK.....Well you get my point.

Now I don't really no where any of my passengers are going, and I assume many make connections if not most do, so they aren't just doing a BOS to JFK run. Most are probably on Amtrak. I sure would be.

 

[PRR 60]

I'm a new pilot flying out of JFK Airport.

Congrats on your job! What airline? Freedom (Mesa)? Flying the DH8?

 

[Morris&Essex]

Hi Saxman,

Good to know there's a pilot here. I'm attempting to fly this week for the first time since I was a child (I'm in my late 30s now), and to say I'm nervous is quite an understatement. All sorts of thoughts are going through my mind, and missing a meeting is the least of them! There's a reason I take Amtrak and view these boards. Any advice/encouragement for a highly nervous practically first-timer? :unsure:

 

[AmtrakFan]

My feeling is that, our system is way over taxed especially our ATC system and compared to Europe and Asia, our Technology is in the Stone Age, once we fix it, it will be too late.

 

[saxman]

I'm a new pilot flying out of JFK Airport.

Congrats on your job! What airline? Freedom (Mesa)? Flying the DH8?

Nope I'm with Comair on the CRJ. Wouldn't be paid enough to go to Mesa.

 

[saxman]

Hi Saxman,
Good to know there's a pilot here. I'm attempting to fly this week for the first time since I was a child (I'm in my late 30s now), and to say I'm nervous is quite an understatement. All sorts of thoughts are going through my mind, and missing a meeting is the least of them! There's a reason I take Amtrak and view these boards. Any advice/encouragement for a highly nervous practically first-timer? :unsure:

Well hard to say how to help. Just think you're less safe in your car, and your flight attendant goes through lots of safety training should something go wrong. (As do we)

My feeling is that, our system is way over taxed especially our ATC system and compared to Europe and Asia, our Technology is in the Stone Age, once we fix it, it will be too late.

Very true. There is a new plan on the table to go to satelite based ATC, and I think people are trying to redo the "NEC" as far as routing. But until there is funding, this is a few years away. The problem is, the airlines are blaming General Aviation for "not paying their way." Its really the other way around as airlines keep adding more and more flights [into JFK] just choking the system. Delta and Jetblue going headon with each other is pretty much the problem.

 

[gswager]

Very true. There is a new plan on the table to go to satelite based ATC, and I think people are trying to redo the "NEC" as far as routing. But until there is funding, this is a few years away. The problem is, the airlines are blaming General Aviation for "not paying their way." Its really the other way around as airlines keep adding more and more flights [into JFK] just choking the system. Delta and Jetblue going headon with each other is pretty much the problem.

I've read Popular Mechanics magazine about the satellite based ATC (more like a GPS), it creates more straight line (same as "crow flies"). It claims to be more efficient- set up the cruising speed to match up other planes, closer distance. The old style ATC forces the plane to follow the radar station point which is zig-zag pattern, primarily in the northeast.

 

[Mark]

I just had an interesting experience on Air Tran. Today while waiting for my flight from Newport News VA to Atlanta I noticed about 6-7 flight attendants hanging around the gate. I was in the last boarding group so I noticed that they must have been waiting to fly to Atlanta after the customers were seated. About 5 minutes after I sat down, (next to one of the crewmembers who had been waiting around), an announcement was made that the flight was over-booked and that three seats were needed. Air Tran would compensate, etc. Well, nobody moved. Nobody wanted to deal.

This next step really surprised me. The next call came over ordering the last three PAYING passengers to board to deplane- so that the CREWs could fly in their places. Of course that wasn't mentioned but it was obvious to anyone who was half paying attention. Needless to say the three folks selected were hot and we had to wait while their luggage was recovered. We left about 20 minutes late. The crewmember next to me mumbled, "somebody screwed up". I replied, "Yea nice customer service." He did not reply but later actually belched several times- loudly without a single, 'excuse me'. So much for the friendly skies.