Acela

[Amtrak Watcher]

So, here I am anticipating my first ride on the Acela next week. According to Bombardier, the HHP-8 Locomotive is capable of 8,000 HP, which seems very high for just about anything, never mind a locomotive.

Does anybody know why the horse power rating is so tremendously high?

 

[Amfleet]

Well for one the Acela trainsets are incredibly overpowered with a total of 16,000 hp for a 6 car train. However, unlike European high-speed trains, the Acela carriages were made much heavier and stronger, thus needing more power. One power car would have been fine though.

 

[AlanB]

I've never actually seen the specs for the Acela Power cars. Are you sure that they have the same horsepower as the HHP-8's?

I know that they look similar, but I'm not sure that they are 100% identical.

 

[Amfleet]

Actully, I think it is 6000 hp per power car and the whole trainset is 12,000 hp.

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

I would be interested in knowing the weight of each Acela car. Anyone know their specs.?

 

[PRR 60]

I would be interested in knowing the weight of each Acela car. Anyone know their specs.?

Oh yes, we have lots of stats!

But first, to clarify any HHP-8 and Acela confusion, the HHP-8 is a stand-alone electric locomotive (motor, in Amtrak-eze) that powers some of the conventional trains on the NEC. Built by Bombardier, and sort of resembling a double-ended Acela power car, the HHP-8 is not used to power Acela. The HHP-8 was purchased to ease the pressure on the venerable AEM-7 with the expanded electrification to Boston. The HHP-8 is rated at 8000hp. For comparison, the AEM-7 is a 7000hp machine and the old PRR GG-1 was rated at 4620hp.

The Acela high-speed trainsets are powered by a pair of dedicated power cars. Each power car is rated at 6166hp thus providing a total of 12,333hp per trainset.

Some stats on Acela:

Power car weight: 102 tons each

Business, First, and Bistro car weights: about 70 tons each (end cars are a little more, intermediate cars a little less)

Total trainset weight: 624 tons

304 seats

Maximum speed 150mph

Just for comparison, here are comparable stats for other high-speed designs:

TGV-PSE (Paris Sud Est, the original TGV): 8 cars, 368 passengers, 425 tons, 8648hp, 168mph

TGV Duplex: 8 cars, 516 passengers, 418 tons, 11,796hp, 186mph

Eurostar (London - Paris): 18 cars, 558 passengers, 900 tons, 16,354hp, 186mph

Need more? Check out this website:

TGVweb Acela

This site is the mother lode of all high speed train information sources.

 

[AlanB]

Thanks PRR60, I was pretty sure that the Acela Power cars were not as powerful as the HHP-8's were.

In addition to being double ended with controls on each side of the HHP-8, they also have standard couplers on each side. The Acela Power cars on the other hand, only have a standard coupler hidden under the nose cone. The other side of the power car does not have a coupler, but instead uses a drawbar to attach to the end car. In fact all cars within the trainset use a drawbar connection.

 

[gswager]

Amtrak President Gunn wants to add more cars to the Acela trainset because the locomotive has plenty of power. Is it just a rumor or is planning to add within the next few years (as long as Bombadier and Amtrak are not pointing fingers each other)?

 

[battalion51]

Well I think that first they need to resolve a lot of the maintenence/mechanical issues before we can talk about adding more cars. Getting every trainset healthy and 100% is the first step, then you start adding cars to the trains, but the sets should have 8-10 cars on them, not 6. I think there should be two First Class cars, one Bistro, and seven Business Class cars.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak President Gunn wants to add more cars to the Acela trainset because the locomotive has plenty of power. Is it just a rumor or is planning to add within the next few years (as long as Bombadier and Amtrak are not pointing fingers each other)?

Well that was one of his possible dreams. However it is a long way from reality. Besides the partial war between Amtrak and Bombardier, he needs money (something he doesn't have), plus Bombardier would have to gear that production line back up again.

They shut down that line, since the Acela is unique to Amtrak. No one else is ordering Acelas.

At present there is no time line at all, it's simply a dream.

 

[AlanB]

but the sets should have 8-10 cars on them, not 6. I think there should be two First Class cars, one Bistro, and seven Business Class cars.

If you are going to add that many BC cars, then you are going to need another Bistro car. One can't handle the load, especially with the short travel times between cities.

 

[Amfleet]

One good note is that the Acela's are getting their roof plates re-attatched that were falling off. Now they are bolted down in stead of welded.

 

[battalion51]

Wait Alan you're implying that the Bistro car is actually used. I got the general impression no one uses it because it's highway robbery and you have short travel times.

 

[AlanB]

Wait Alan you're implying that the Bistro car is actually used. I got the general impression no one uses it because it's highway robbery and you have short travel times.

Well I'm certainly no expert on business in the Bistro at all. However, I seem to recall reading somewhere once, that they do indeed do a brisk business in the Bistro.

I can tell you from my one experience traveling in BC (I normally ride in FC) from Boston to NYP, I was in a largely empty train. Yet when I arrived in the Bistro to buy some food, I was the fifth person in line. My best guess is that there where maybe 50 passengers on the train at that time. So between the five in line ahead of me, my friend Superliner Diner and his son, along with a few people in line ahead of him (we went at separate times), that means at least 10% of the pax ate something from the Bistro.

I can also tell you that I've seen them restocking the Bistro on more than one occasion when I've boarded at Penn. So while I can't say just how much they are selling, the simple fact that they are restocking means that they are selling something.

 

[PRR 60]

Amtrak President Gunn wants to add more cars to the Acela trainset because the locomotive has plenty of power.   Is it just a rumor or is planning to add within the next few years (as long as Bombadier and Amtrak are not pointing fingers each other)?

The Acela trainset can be extended to ten cars while maintaining the required performance. Unfortunately, my understanding is that the Acela maintenance facilities (Boston, Sunnyside, Ivy City) can only accommodate the present six car trainsets. Any lengthening of the Acela would either result in having to break the sets for shop work, or would require a costly rebuilding of the Acela maintenance buildings (if that is even possible in these already shoehorned locations. I have often thought that one imaginative way to settle the legal wrangles between Amtrak and Bombardier would be an order for additional sets or cars with pricing at or below cost. Amtrak gets more trains, Bombardier get more work, and everyone is happy again. My suspicion is that such a scenario is not likely.

In my opinion, the six-car fixed Acela set is too small for the established New York to Washington market. These sets actually represent a reduction of seating from the seven car AEM-7 / Amfleet Metroliner. Flexibility in the make-up of the Acela sets would be nice, but I think the challenges to accomplish that are formidable.

Gee, I wonder if anyone ever thought of this concept during the planning for Acela? Instead of using a fixed trainset, lets use a high-speed locomotive pulling separately attached cars. Trains can be any length you need. Wow! That might work! (He said, sacastically.)