53(25) Auto Train Arrived Sanford ~14hr Late

[FormerOBS]

(Possibly) dumb question:

In situations like this, has Amtrak ever considered cancelling an AT rotation and then using 18-wheelers to clear out a backlog of vehicles, then placing the passengers on another Amtrak service like the Silver Meteor and bussing them to/from the AT terminals to Richmond or Orlando or wherever makes the most sense.

Could that even be done on short notice? (Probably not.) Would it even make sense for passengers? (Maybe yes, maybe no?)

Just trying to think outside the box.

This would probably be a very expensive solution. Both trains would have to be canceled. It would mean finding about 20-35 specialized tractor trailer rigs (i.e., auto carriers; not just ordinary box trailers), with drivers in each direction. Load and unload these trailers at locations where such equipment isn't normally handled. The other trains probably couldn't handle the additional passenger load, even if supplented with buses. The stations at LOR and SFA are not on the mainline, so the other trains would have to be routed off their normal route to use the platforms. As you suggest, the short notice issue would also be significant.

I appreciate & approve of thinking outside the box, but in this case I don't think it would work.

Latest word: the train passed Weldon around 3:20, which means 7 pm may still be possible. Seven pm means 10 hours late, which means more time lost over the road.

Tom

 

[lo2e]

The latest estimate was about 7 pm, which would be down 10 hours. However, my latest word is that the train is "creeping" northbound, somewhere north of Rocky Mount as of 2:45 pm. Normal running time from Rocky Mount to LOR is about 4 to 4-1/2 hours. The reason they are creeping is unknown to me.

As of this morning's departure from Sanford approximately 4-1/2 hours has been gained. Approximately 5 hours and 8 minutes have been made up through 3 quick turnarounds; and approximately 38 minutes have been lost on 2 over-the-road runs. Currently, the train is in jeopardy of losing more time due to poor over-the-road performance, I can't say whether this is the fault of Amtrak or CSX.

Possibly none of the above or all of the above. That area seems to be a bit of a bugaboo since the tornadoes early last week. I'm wondering if there might be either a signal issue or a slow order due to track damage or something.

 

[rrdude]

It's just another example of running a skeletal system, with barely enough equipment to handle the day-to-day on specific trains, let alone a complete back up. (they would need auto racks, and all the sleepers, diners, and coaches, just "sitting around" in case they run into situations like this, Amtrak is just not that "equipment-rich)

"Back in the day", really meaning pre-Amtrak, RR's would run extras if either demand, or operating conditions warranted. However, the Auto-Train, being such a weird duck, would have even presented the old RR's with a tough nut to crack.

 

[Seaboard92]

I went out to see it today in Dillion, SC and I was expecting it to be around nine am based on it left nine hours down. And I finally saw it at Mars Bluff SC about three miles from Florence station at about 1110 am. Scheduled time on the smoke stop press release is 1230-1245 am stop

 

[fairviewroad]

I appreciate & approve of thinking outside the box, but in this case I don't think it would work.

You're undoubtedly right. Just a whimsical idea on my part. Though the logistics involved in implementing my suggestion really just go to show what an amazing operation the Auto Train is...when it works, of course.

 

[FormerOBS]

Train 52 is arriving LOR right now.

For 3 runs over the road, the train gained about 5 hours on quick turnarounds, and lost about 1 hour over the road, for a net gain of 4 hours in 1-1/2 round trips. So that's how you make up the time: Very slowly and painfully.

Tom

 

[b243923]

We are scheduled to leave Sanford on Friday afternoon at 4:00pm.

If there is going to be a delay when would Amtrak contact us?

We do not want to rush to the station and sit there for hours when we could be enjoying the outdoors.

Thanks

Ben

 

[Ryan]

Since you're here, the best bet is to be proactive and watch the timekeeping of the train this week. Barring any unforeseen delays, you should have a good idea as the week goes on.

 

[A Voice]

We are scheduled to leave Sanford on Friday afternoon at 4:00pm.

If there is going to be a delay when would Amtrak contact us?

We do not want to rush to the station and sit there for hours when we could be enjoying the outdoors.

Thanks

Ben

The trainset which has been delayed, and which will continue to be delayed several more days at least, departs southbound from Lorton sometime tonight. Its counterpart train, departing northbound from Sanford tonight February 29, has been running ontime. Hence, the train which will be departing Sanford on Friday March 4th is the same set which leaves Sanford on schedule tonight, so barring any further or unforseen problems, it should also be on time for Friday.

Unless something else comes up in the next few days, you'll be fine.

 

[Ryan]

Good thinking!!!

 

[edjbox]

Has this ever happened before to the Amtrak Auto Train?

 

[CCC1007]

Yes. Several cancellations in the last decade to reset the sets to normal.

 

[Thirdrail7]

It's terrible for all involved. It is one of the main reasons I'm against self cycling sets if it is possible

 

[Train2104]

53 (29) actually departed on the 29th...6h11m late out of Lorton. Halfway there!

 

[FormerOBS]

"A Voice" is correct. The equipment involved in this situation is scheduled to turn around at Lorton on Friday. The equipment that will turn at Sanford on Friday is not involved.

edjbox:

Of course it's happened before, but it's far from an everyday occurrence. All of my comments on this thread have been based on actual working experience with that train. Over the years, I experienced delays due to Hurricanes Hugo, Danny, Fran, and a few others. I experienced delays due to the mechanical problems of other trains that were inconveniently in our way; grade crossing incidents; hotboxes; questionable dispatching; detours; and failure of our own locomotives or cars. BUT IF THIS KIND OF THING HAD HAPPENED ON EVERY TRIP --- OR ON MOST TRIPS --- THEN I WOULD NOT HAVE STAYED ON THE JOB FOR OVER 25 YEARS. We are discussing an operation that relies on mechanical equipment. Problems do occur, but the OBS crew does its best to minimize the discomfort and get you through it. That's their job.

Lorton Terminal managed to shave almost 3 more hours off the delay. That's really great!

Tom

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It's terrible for all involved. It is one of the main reasons I'm against self cycling sets if it is possible

Agreed about it being a bad situation but it's also a good case in point for members who casually suggest starting/resuming routes with minimal hardware. I wonder how many sets the original Auto Train company maintained before being taken over by Amtrak. Also curious what happens to customers who are on a cancelled Auto Train. I would imagine many of them end up canceling and/or rescheduling their trips due to lack of available space on subsequent runs. If you're visiting family that's probably not an issue but if you have an inclusive Disney package already purchased it may not be practical to simply start over again at the last minute.

 

[CCC1007]

It's terrible for all involved. It is one of the main reasons I'm against self cycling sets if it is possible

Agreed about it being a bad situation but it's also a good case in point for members who casually suggest starting/resuming routes with minimal hardware. I wonder how many sets the original Auto Train company maintained before being taken over by Amtrak. Also curious what happens to customers who are on a cancelled Auto Train. I would imagine many of them end up canceling and/or rescheduling their trips due to lack of available space on subsequent runs. If you're visiting family that's probably not an issue but if you have an inclusive Disney package already purchased it may not be practical to simply start over again at the last minute.

i seem to remember seeing 10 round trips per week with three sets of passenger cars at some point on that route.

 

[Seaboard92]

You can check out themetrains.com for their roster. They also ran I think a second frequency between LOR and SFA.

 

[afigg]

Agreed about it being a bad situation but it's also a good case in point for members who casually suggest starting/resuming routes with minimal hardware. I wonder how many sets the original Auto Train company maintained before being taken over by Amtrak. Also curious what happens to customers who are on a cancelled Auto Train. I would imagine many of them end up canceling and/or rescheduling their trips due to lack of available space on subsequent runs. If you're visiting family that's probably not an issue but if you have an inclusive Disney package already purchased it may not be practical to simply start over again at the last minute.

In this situation, the customers who have their AT cancelled, do have a car. So, instead of taking the AT, they have the option of driving the 855 miles, likely spending a night in a hotel on the way. Of course, some may not be up to driving the distance or have a motorcycle or car they don't want to put 855 additional miles on. So they might have to wait a day or two for the next available AT, maybe having to take coach instead of a sleeper.

 

[FormerOBS]

Train 53 arrived SFA at 5:56 pm today, 8:58 late. It left LOR yesterday only 6:11 late, which means that the train's operation over CSX incurred 2:48 of additional delay. Fortunately, Amtrak's quick turnarounds are gaining the time faster than CSX is losing it, so the train is still gradually getting back to schedule, no thanks to CSX.

Tom

 

[west point]

If Amtrak notifies the passengers some may be able to take a day earlier or day later train ?

 

[Dovecote]

It's terrible for all involved. It is one of the main reasons I'm against self cycling sets if it is possible

Agreed about it being a bad situation but it's also a good case in point for members who casually suggest starting/resuming routes with minimal hardware. I wonder how many sets the original Auto Train company maintained before being taken over by Amtrak. Also curious what happens to customers who are on a cancelled Auto Train. I would imagine many of them end up canceling and/or rescheduling their trips due to lack of available space on subsequent runs. If you're visiting family that's probably not an issue but if you have an inclusive Disney package already purchased it may not be practical to simply start over again at the last minute.

Here was my situation back in October during the South Carolina flooding saga. Traveling on the Auto Train in my case is driving 300 miles south to Sanford. On the morning of my travel on October 4 I called Amtrak to confirm the train was running. Despite the train being cancelled the day before I was assured the train was scheduled to travel. When I arrived three hours later in Jacksonville, before heading south on I-95, I called again to confirm the status of the train. Again, I was assured that the train was planning to travel. About a half hour before arriving Sanford I received a robocall informing me the train was cancelled! Needless to say I was furious over this! Five hours of needless driving down the drain. This was just the beginning of a unwanted travel odyssey I will never forget. Two days later after several road detours in South Carolina I arrived in the Lorton area. Amtrak dropped the ball on this one and I learned a lesson. Go with your gut and not trust Amtrak to do the right thing.

 

[Ryan]

Because it's totally inconceivable that the best information Amtrak had from CSX indicated that the train would run, and the situation on the ground changed at the last minute made that impossible.

Much easier to pass judgement with half of the story.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think that Amtrak could do a better job of managing expectations by simply explaining that they have no direct control over their long distance schedule keeping and few if any workarounds for serious disruptions. They could include this as a warning on their tickets and on their marketing materials as well. That way everyone knows the score before they invest their time and money.

 

[A Voice]

I think that Amtrak could do a better job of managing expectations by simply explaining that they have no direct control over their long distance schedule keeping and few if any workarounds for serious disruptions. They could include this as a warning on their tickets and on their marketing materials as well. That way everyone knows the score before they invest their time and money.

Are you trying to run off all the passengers or something? Surprisingly, effective marketing doesn't emphasize all the things that might possibly go wrong, but seldom do, but rather tells you the positive aspects of travel by train and why you ought to give it a try.

Have you seen a commercial for a new automobile? They typically tell you how well built the vehicle is, how much fun it is to drive, how innovative and stylish the car is and you'll be the envy of all your neighbors for owning one. They don't seem to much mention how the thing barely passed its crash test and you have a high chance of dying in a side collision, that the gas mileage is the worst of any car in its class, and that it will depreciate faster than a lead balloon.

You want to be honest and open with your passengers, but there is no reason to list all the things that might go wrong, but won't 99% of the time.