1st Trip and Last Trip, If That

[JustToBeMe2]

Made reservations in April for Sept 29 from SOP(NC) to KIS (Fl). For the heck of it I went online to see what the fares were yesterday and I see a bus picture. Come to find out Amtrak didn't feel the need to let me know that due to work on a bridge we'd have to get off the train around 7 am and ride a bus for 4 hours AFTER riding the train for over 7 hours. I have WC transfer seat and I am wondering just how the heck they are going to do that. I hate buses but the main thing is they didn't EVEN notify me. This is bad business.

 

[caravanman]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about the bus problem, I guess you should call Amtrak and ask what to do. I love riding trains, but I know that Amtrak customer relations are pretty dire... Seems lucky you looked on line, at least you now have advance warning. I just looked and it appears that the bridge work is only on for a couple of days, maybe you can alter your travel date a little?

Ed

 

[fairviewroad]

One more thought is that maybe the work is scheduled to be finished by the time you take your trip? The Amtrak website is a bit unsophisticated, and can show "alerts" even when the track work is on a different day to the one you need.

Doubtful, in this case. It appears the OP had the bad luck of booking a trip on one of just two days that all train service is cancelled south of Jacksonville due to

a bridge replacement undertaken by the owners of the track.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&p=1237608345018&cid=1251622516947

The OP should be glad s/he is not going all the way to Miami: That would be a 10hr bus ride. OTOH, the OP makes a good point about not being notified. It's possible

that notification is still on its way, since the travel dates are still more than a month away. And technically, there's nothing about this that would effect the OP's schedule,

since the bus is scheduled to arrive KIS at the same time as the train.

To the question about the wheelchair, virtually every single bus these days has a lift, so theoretically that's not an issue. Inconvenient, yes. But from Amtrak's

point-of-view, they'll get you there. No one likes a bustitution, but in this case the track closure is not Amtrak's fault, and the alternative would simply have been

to cancel the service altogether. I bet a lot of people prefer the substitute bus to nothing at all. But, yeah, here on AU we feel your pain.

 

[sitzplatz17]

One more thought is that maybe the work is scheduled to be finished by the time you take your trip? The Amtrak website is a bit unsophisticated, and can show "alerts" even when the track work is on a different day to the one you need.

Doubtful, in this case. It appears the OP had the bad luck of booking a trip on one of just two days that all train service is cancelled south of Jacksonville due to

a bridge replacement undertaken by the owners of the track.

http://www.amtrak.co...d=1251622516947

The OP should be glad s/he is not going all the way to Miami: That would be a 10hr bus ride. OTOH, the OP makes a good point about not being notified. It's possible

that notification is still on its way, since the travel dates are still more than a month away. And technically, there's nothing about this that would effect the OP's schedule,

since the bus is scheduled to arrive KIS at the same time as the train.

To the question about the wheelchair, virtually every single bus these days has a lift, so theoretically that's not an issue. Inconvenient, yes. But from Amtrak's

point-of-view, they'll get you there. No one likes a bustitution, but in this case the track closure is not Amtrak's fault, and the alternative would simply have been

to cancel the service altogether. I bet a lot of people prefer the substitute bus to nothing at all. But, yeah, here on AU we feel your pain.

Hmmm what's the Auto Train going to do? or is it not affected?

Shame they can't just re-route the Silvers on to FEC

 

[fairviewroad]

Hmmm what's the Auto Train going to do? or is it not affected?

AutoTrain is covered under a separate service advisory:

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&p=1237608345018&cid=1251622517072

The main difference is that there will be no alternate transportation provided for the Auto Train. I guess theoretically Amtrak

could hire a fleet of 18-wheelers to take the cars, and take AT pax from Lorton to JAX and then bus them to Sanford, but considering

the logistics involved in that, I'd say it's a safer bet to simply cancel the service for a few days. Fortunately late September is not peak season for the AT.

 

[sitzplatz17]

Hmmm what's the Auto Train going to do? or is it not affected?

AutoTrain is covered under a separate service advisory:

http://www.amtrak.co...d=1251622517072

The main difference is that there will be no alternate transportation provided for the Auto Train. I guess theoretically Amtrak

could hire a fleet of 18-wheelers to take the cars, and take AT pax from Lorton to JAX and then bus them to Sanford, but considering

the logistics involved in that, I'd say it's a safer bet to simply cancel the service for a few days. Fortunately late September is not peak season for the AT.

Glad they chose that weekend and not the one before, I'm taking it on the 15th of September!

 

[VentureForth]

Hmmm what's the Auto Train going to do? or is it not affected?

AutoTrain is covered under a separate service advisory:

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&p=1237608345018&cid=1251622517072

The main difference is that there will be no alternate transportation provided for the Auto Train. I guess theoretically Amtrak

could hire a fleet of 18-wheelers to take the cars, and take AT pax from Lorton to JAX and then bus them to Sanford, but considering

the logistics involved in that, I'd say it's a safer bet to simply cancel the service for a few days. Fortunately late September is not peak season for the AT.

It's not necessarily coming up as a service advisory, though. It's just simply saying not available if you try to book it and it is defaulting you to Oct. 1, much like it does if you try to book a tri-weekly service on an off date.

 

[TampAGS]

From the description, it sounds like this is the bridge which crosses the St. Johns River at the north end of Lake Monroe. This bridge has been problematic in the past, so while I sympathize with the OP, I am glad to learn that the bridge is going to be replaced.

 

On December 23, 2009, the bridge broke in the up position and it took then-owner CSX something like 12 hours to repair it. The 98, 92, and Auto train were all loaded with holiday travelers and were horribly delayed. I was on the 92, which fortunately spent the hours-long delay parked at the Orlando station (my destination was DeLand, so I was able to call my family and have them pick me up in ORL). The 98 was parked just south of the bridge, and north of the Auto-Train station, so passengers were stuck on the train for the duration.

 

It seems the new track owners don't want the possibility of a similar snafu delaying the new SunRail service.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Made reservations in April for Sept 29 from SOP(NC) to KIS (Fl). For the heck of it I went online to see what the fares were yesterday and I see a bus picture. Come to find out Amtrak didn't feel the need to let me know that due to work on a bridge we'd have to get off the train around 7 am and ride a bus for 4 hours AFTER riding the train for over 7 hours. I have WC transfer seat and I am wondering just how the heck they are going to do that. I hate buses but the main thing is they didn't EVEN notify me. This is bad business.

1. I don't think Amtrak posts a bus picture on their website. Don't know what you are talking about.

2. Hey, buses aren't that bad, it really depends on what type of bus, the company, and stuff like that. Buses are really hit-and-miss sometimes.

3. I agree that they should have notified you, but even if they didn't I wouldn't be as angry as you about it.

 

[fairviewroad]

It's not necessarily coming up as a service advisory, though. It's just simply saying not available if you try to book it and it is defaulting you to Oct. 1, much like it does if you try to book a tri-weekly service on an off date.

Interestingly, if you book a random date before the AutoTrain service outage, you do get the service alert notice while booking, even though the service alert

would have no effect on you. But like you said, when you try booking the outage, it simply shunts you over to Oct. 1 while giving the cryptic blue "there is a problem

with your itinerary" notice with no additional information. Only Amtrak would think this is a rational way of disseminating information about a service outage.

 

[fairviewroad]

1. I don't think Amtrak posts a bus picture on their website. Don't know what you are talking about.

Amtrak always uses a bus logo on the booking page when one part of the journey involves a bus. That's a good thing since it reduces

the chance that someone will not know they're on a bus until they arrive at the station. In the OP's case, of course, the bus logo did not

appear initially since the bustitution was implemented long after the ticket was purchased.

 

[Alice]

I also use a wheelchair and have had notoriously bad service on Amtrak buses. On scheduled buses, the lifts do not all work. Once it got me up partway and stopped. Once the lift got me in but not out. On several the driver just says my lift doesn't work, take another. On a bustitution to the Seattle gathering, staff loading the buses did not know anyone had a wheelchair and had not obtained any buses with lifts. Keep in mind my wheelchair was on the manifest. They called an accessible limousine, let some others in it who didn't need it and took up the "real" seats, leaving me and another person sharing a single seatbelt. (My wheelchair isn't safe to stay in on cars.) The driver was terrible.

Amtrak has lost numerous ADA lawsuits. There is a new class action suit this year over inaccessible stations despite being given an extra 20 years to fix all of them (ending in 2010), and in 2009 was denied their request to be given until 2015.

So you see where their heads are. I like the trains, most of the staff really believe in access and do what they can, but I try to avoid buses. I walk a little so can get around their screwups. If you don't, I recommend either planning extra time (and documenting everything for complaints to customer service and a partial refund), or changing your travel date. Amtrak will eventually get you to your destination somehow but it might take a lot of patience and desire for adventure on your part.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

1. I don't think Amtrak posts a bus picture on their website. Don't know what you are talking about.

Amtrak always uses a bus logo on the booking page when one part of the journey involves a bus. That's a good thing since it reduces

the chance that someone will not know they're on a bus until they arrive at the station. In the OP's case, of course, the bus logo did not

appear initially since the bustitution was implemented long after the ticket was purchased.

So it was just a logo. I got confused there for a sec.

 

[JustToBeMe2]

Sorry about the double thread. Yes I didn't see it so I thought perhaps the captcha didn't work correctly and so re-posted a new thread.

We can't change our plans (days) because my husband can't get off on Friday. His vacation starts after work that Friday (had to put in for it 6 months ahead) and lasts for one week and if you know anything about Disney the Vacation it has to be paid for 45 days in advance. All direct flights are booked or are being sold as business class or what's left is has us coming in missing a paid for day. So it's a done deal. We're stuck. Our bad luck, yes but it still stinks they didn't let us know. I'd really like to know when they knew this was going to happen.

We have talked it over and we are going to try it. I was so looking forward to all the good things I have read about the train. I need space to move around and shift a bit (5 back surgeries and car sickness) being cramped and having to sit in a bus seat I feel is going to be painful. Sitting in an airline seat gets to me also but it's for a lot less time.I am still very annoyed that they didn't let me know and that I had to find this out myself and call them to verify what I was seeing.

It feels like they did/do it so it would be too late to book/make other arrangements. You know booking an airline less than 30 days out cost much more. We have to save for our vacations and it's a pain in the behind to have to use a scooter/wc. I'm on the roster as getting a transfer seat (whatever that means to them) on the train but wondering if that would equate to anything on the bus.

My biggest hope is the bus will not be crowded and I can have 2 seats so I can shift around, sit sideways, etc. with hubby across or in front of me. We'll see.

I was so looking forward to boarding the train, getting a little sleep (recliner is the only comfortable place for me, not even the bed), get some breakfast, freshening up and being ready for the day. But it is not to be.

Alice, I will definitely keep a notebook and record of any mishaps if there are any with names and times. I am hoping things go smoothly. Do they move your things from train to bus for you?Thank you for the info.

To the PP, yes it's a bus logo and I am glad they use it also because as a person who has never ridden the train before I wouldn't have known or understood what it was about.

Just know my anger/annoyance with this is based on being relatively comfortable not on just an inconvenience. I'm not trying to hate the train but there is something wrong with the Amtrak system of notification it seems. Very bad business.

And from the previous post. I have met very nice people on an airplane that I have wonderful conversations with (and had the screaming baby drama too).

 

[Trainut]

One more thought is that maybe the work is scheduled to be finished by the time you take your trip? The Amtrak website is a bit unsophisticated, and can show "alerts" even when the track work is on a different day to the one you need.

Doubtful, in this case. It appears the OP had the bad luck of booking a trip on one of just two days that all train service is cancelled south of Jacksonville due to

a bridge replacement undertaken by the owners of the track.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&p=1237608345018&cid=1251622516947

The OP should be glad s/he is not going all the way to Miami: That would be a 10hr bus ride. OTOH, the OP makes a good point about not being notified. It's possible

that notification is still on its way, since the travel dates are still more than a month away. And technically, there's nothing about this that would effect the OP's schedule,

since the bus is scheduled to arrive KIS at the same time as the train.

To the question about the wheelchair, virtually every single bus these days has a lift, so theoretically that's not an issue. Inconvenient, yes. But from Amtrak's

point-of-view, they'll get you there. No one likes a bustitution, but in this case the track closure is not Amtrak's fault, and the alternative would simply have been

to cancel the service altogether. I bet a lot of people prefer the substitute bus to nothing at all. But, yeah, here on AU we feel your pain.

The question about the wheelchair, virtually every single bus these days has a lift, so theoretically that's not an issue. Inconvenient, yes.

NOT TRUE, the three buses that were sent to Chicago from Saint Paul, on the 19th of July did NOT have anything for wheelchairs or scooters. You must be thinking of city buses. I have not seen very many over the road buses that do have them.

 

[fairviewroad]

NOT TRUE, the three buses that were sent to Chicago from Saint Paul, on the 19th of July did NOT have anything for wheelchairs or scooters. You must be thinking of city buses. I have not seen very many over the road buses that do have them.

The ADA guidelines for motorcoach accessibility are complex and vary with the size of the bus company and the type of service they provide (fixed route/charter, etc.).

For large "fixed-route" companies (Greyhound, MegaBus, etc.) all NEW buses must be accessible and all old non-accessible buses must either be retired or retrofitted by October of this year. So starting

in October you should theoretically be guaranteed to have a wheelchair accessible bus with a fixed-route company. To NOT have one would be a federal violation and it should be

reported.

For charter companies, there is no such fleet-wide requirement. Neither is there for "small" fixed-route companies.

However, in ALL cases the bus company MUST provide accessible service with a 48-hour advance notice. Since the OP has already indicated to Amtrak that she is using a WC, then this

should not be an issue. But yes, in real life people screw up. If they fail to provide accessible service, they should be reported

To the OP: Best wishes on your journey and please do report back to us afterward to let us know how things went.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Reporting the bad apples is all well and good, but is there anything else the OP can do to help ensure they get everything they need before the staff has a chance to forget about them?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

NOT TRUE, the three buses that were sent to Chicago from Saint Paul, on the 19th of July did NOT have anything for wheelchairs or scooters. You must be thinking of city buses. I have not seen very many over the road buses that do have them.

At least Greyhound is retrofitting all buses with wheelchair lifts and more comfortable seats. The bus should not be too bad if it's a Greyhound, but all bets are of if it isn't. Charter buses are usually less comfortable than line-haulers in my expierience, line-haulers usually have larger seats but not exactly more legroom.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

1345746408[/url]' post='389082']

1345691347[/url]' post='388981']NOT TRUE, the three buses that were sent to Chicago from Saint Paul, on the 19th of July did NOT have anything for wheelchairs or scooters. You must be thinking of city buses. I have not seen very many over the road buses that do have them.

At least Greyhound is retrofitting all buses with wheelchair lifts and more comfortable seats. The bus should not be too bad if it's a Greyhound, but all bets are of if it isn't. Charter buses are usually less comfortable than line-haulers in my expierience, line-haulers usually have larger seats but not exactly more legroom.

The Thruway busses operated directly by Amtrak California are very nice, so there is no truth to that. In addition, many not offered by Amtrak California are nice, because just yesterday the Westwood-Bakersfield via VNC bus was a t VNC and it was a Coach America, which are nice.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

NOT TRUE, the three buses that were sent to Chicago from Saint Paul, on the 19th of July did NOT have anything for wheelchairs or scooters. You must be thinking of city buses. I have not seen very many over the road buses that do have them.

At least Greyhound is retrofitting all buses with wheelchair lifts and more comfortable seats. The bus should not be too bad if it's a Greyhound, but all bets are of if it isn't. Charter buses are usually less comfortable than line-haulers in my expierience, line-haulers usually have larger seats but not exactly more legroom.

The Thruway busses operated directly by Amtrak California are very nice, so there is no truth to that. In addition, many not offered by Amtrak California are nice, because just yesterday the Westwood-Bakersfield via VNC bus was a t VNC and it was a Coach America, which are nice.

I didn't just say Greyhound buses, I said all line-haulers. It seems that you do not know what line-haulers are, but that's OK. Amtrak California buses are line-haulers 'cause they run on a fixed route with fixed schedule. Don't know where Westwood is and I don't know much about Coach America, but at least try out a Greyhound D4505 sometime, they're much better then the old Greyhounds managed by Laidlaw.

 

[Nathanael]

Amtrak has lost numerous ADA lawsuits. There is a new class action suit this year over inaccessible stations despite being given an extra 20 years to fix

all of them (ending in 2010), and in 2009 was denied their request to be given until 2015.

Not really an "extra 20 years"; Amtrak was the ONLY passenger train provider which was required to make all its stations accessible. Every other existing train operator was allowed to only make "key stations" accessible, and has taken full advantage.

Unfortunately the Amtrak management prior to Boardman didn't seem to take the mandate seriously; around the time Boardman entered office was the first time Amtrak made a serious attempt to even start to upgrade all its stations. I think they've been doing their best since then, given the lack of Congressional funding for a mandate which applies ONLY to Amtrak.

The most recent class action suit I know of was largely not about that, but about bad staff behavior, which rendered stations inaccessible which are listed as accessible on Amtrak's publications (including NY Penn). Obviously all Amtrak can do is settle the lawsuit and try, again, to retrain the troublesome members of its staff.

So you see where their heads are. I like the trains, most of the staff really believe in access and do what they can, but I try to avoid buses.

I agree that most of the staff really do what they can; the few that don't, however, can cause a huge amount of trouble, because so many of the stations, trains, and buses are not "passively accessible" without staff help. My fiancee can walk but not more than 100 feet or so without a break, and has great trouble with stairs. Most Amtrak staff have been very helpful but a few have forced me to walk great distances to drag supervisors out of their offices and yell at them until the staff does their jobs.

I walk a little so can get around their screwups. If you don't, I recommend either planning extra time (and documenting everything for complaints to customer service and a partial refund), or changing your travel date. Amtrak will eventually get you to your destination somehow but it might take a lot of patience and desire for adventure on your part.

In the Original Poster's case, with a very short number of days of bustitution, changing the travel date would be extremely wise. Amtrak customer service should be willing to help with that if you call them up and explain the situation with the wheelchair and not wanting to deal with the bus.

 

[Nathanael]

It feels like they did/do it so it would be too late to book/make other arrangements.

SunRail's track purchase and bridge replacement plans actually came with fairly short notice, so Amtrak is probably scrambling, too.

there is something wrong with the Amtrak system of notification it seems. Very bad business.

Indeed, Amtrak should probably have a procedure to promptly notify ticketed passenger of bus substitutions as soon as Amtrak finds out. I think they don't have such a system. It's worth writing to corporate head office about that.

 

[AlanB]

It feels like they did/do it so it would be too late to book/make other arrangements.

SunRail's track purchase and bridge replacement plans actually came with fairly short notice, so Amtrak is probably scrambling, too.

there is something wrong with the Amtrak system of notification it seems. Very bad business.

Indeed, Amtrak should probably have a procedure to promptly notify ticketed passenger of bus substitutions as soon as Amtrak finds out. I think they don't have such a system. It's worth writing to corporate head office about that.

Amtrak does have a system that notifies the customer when things like this happen. Agents call each person to inform them and to try to work with them to make arrangements if need be. It's not always immediate, as all to often the volume of people needing to be called for various issues is quite large. But they do call. However, it usually turns out that at least a few people didn't provide a valid phone number. Not suggesting that's what happened in the case of the OP, but it is a problem for Amtrak that far too often some people cannot be reached because of a bad phone number.

And when I talk about the volume of calls, it can often be a very big number. Amtrak calls for substitutions like this and major schedule changes too.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

1345758479[/url]' post='389125']

1345748509[/url]' post='389094']

1345746408[/url]' post='389082']

1345691347[/url]' post='388981']NOT TRUE, the three buses that were sent to Chicago from Saint Paul, on the 19th of July did NOT have anything for wheelchairs or scooters. You must be thinking of city buses. I have not seen very many over the road buses that do have them.

At least Greyhound is retrofitting all buses with wheelchair lifts and more comfortable seats. The bus should not be too bad if it's a Greyhound, but all bets are of if it isn't. Charter buses are usually less comfortable than line-haulers in my expierience, line-haulers usually have larger seats but not exactly more legroom.

The Thruway busses operated directly by Amtrak California are very nice, so there is no truth to that. In addition, many not offered by Amtrak California are nice, because just yesterday the Westwood-Bakersfield via VNC bus was a t VNC and it was a Coach America, which are nice.

I didn't just say Greyhound buses, I said all line-haulers. It seems that you do not know what line-haulers are, but that's OK. Amtrak California buses are line-haulers 'cause they run on a fixed route with fixed schedule. Don't know where Westwood is and I don't know much about Coach America, but at least try out a Greyhound D4505 sometime, they're much better then the old Greyhounds managed by Laidlaw.

I'm sorry. The line "The bus should not be too bad if it's a Greyhound, but all bets are off if it isn't" kinda makes me want to reply the way I did. Yes a Greyhound is a line-hauler, and sure Amtrak California buses are too, whatever. That just helps me because I am providing examples of line-haulers that aren't bad. I don't retract any of my statement.

 

[winterskigirl]

I hate "busstitutions"