why can't food be better

I read part of another discussion about french toast.

Why can't Amtrak have great food that is made totally fresh? I said a while back if the food trucks in Philly can make fresh food, why can't Amtrak? It's pathetic. And I say that as someone who loves trains and supports amtrak.

Congressman Mica doesn't want "taxpayers" subsidizing "rich" Amtrak passengers.

Simple, because the government doesn't take Amtrak seriously, despite the fact more and more people are riding it. They also don't have the guts to properly fund it. I would say something much worst then that, but I'm not looking to get in trouble. Give Amtrak $10 billion a year in subsidies and I guarantee it you'll see a different system and better food being supplied.

What's probably needed to sensitize the people with the purse strings [the government] is more clamor from the populace :mellow:

Agree with Caeser La Rock. If our government would subsidies Amtrak like they do the trucking and air industries things would be considerably better for Amtrak (equipment, food, etc.) maybe then the home railroads would give Amtrak some respect even when there freight traffic rebounds. Our politicians should try to bring this countries train travel up a few notches by investing more (money) towards it.

Caesar La Rock said:

Simple, because the government doesn't take Amtrak seriously, despite the fact more and more people are riding it. They also don't have the guts to properly fund it. I would say something much worst then that, but I'm not looking to get in trouble. Give Amtrak $10 billion a year in subsidies and I guarantee it you'll see a different system and better food being supplied.

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If Amtrak got an increased subsidy I would sure hope they would put it toward more trains than better food.

If you surveyed passengers (or potential passengers) on what they disliked most about Amtrak; frequency, OTP, and better equipment would be the first priorities long before better food.

Outside of the railfan crowd is the food situation generating lots of complaints by those who are riding the train for transportation? (yes, here I am including the LD's too, just not the "land cruise" segment of the ridership which is by no means all of the ridership)

That said, if they want to save money on food service they need to stop touting it as a reason for people to ride.

Caesar La Rock said:

Simple, because the government doesn't take Amtrak seriously, despite the fact more and more people are riding it. They also don't have the guts to properly fund it. I would say something much worst then that, but I'm not looking to get in trouble. Give Amtrak $10 billion a year in subsidies and I guarantee it you'll see a different system and better food being supplied.

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Congress under funds Amtrak and then hollers "Look how bad it is!"

Here's the sad part... Amtrak doesn't have to make food fresh to have some great food!

The Lamb Shank, Mahi Mahi Filet, Beechers Cheee Mac & Cheese, and Crab Cakes (the previous ones from a few years ago) were all excellent!

I'm sure these dishes are a little more expensive for Amtrak to buy, but they obviously come from the same supplier and can

be prepared on board using whatever "quick and easy" methods are necessary.

Food trucks don't make fresh food. Most of it is prepared (or partially prepared) well in advance and basically reheated. They all have kitchen facilities in a permanent location.

BCL said:

Food trucks don't make fresh food. Most of it is prepared (or partially prepared) well in advance and basically reheated. They all have kitchen facilities in a permanent location.

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Doesn't dispute my point. Set up a small kitchen in NYP or wherever along the route to do the prep. Then load up the train and do it. I think the real excuse must be poor funding combined with bureaucratic nonsense. Either way, no real excuse. They did it in the past (before I had a chance to ride).

northnorthwest said:

Why can't Amtrak have great food that is made totally fresh? I said a while back if the food trucks in Philly can make fresh food, why can't Amtrak? It's pathetic. And I say that as someone who loves trains and supports amtrak.

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There are lots of reasons actually, both logistical and cultural, but it wasn't that long ago that things were actually improving. Even a consummate cynic such as yours truly was lauding the improvement. And then...

MikefromCrete said:

Congressman Mica doesn't want "taxpayers" subsidizing "rich" Amtrak passengers.

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^ This happened. More specifically John Mica helped start what Bill Shuster and fellow colleagues continue to grow. Namely, the staunchly anti-Amtrak congressional caucus.

Caesar La Rock said:

Simple, because the government doesn't take Amtrak seriously, despite the fact more and more people are riding it. They also don't have the guts to properly fund it. I would say something much worst then that, but I'm not looking to get in trouble. Give Amtrak $10 billion a year in subsidies and I guarantee it you'll see a different system and better food being supplied.

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The administration in the Executive Branch has been more than willing to fully fund Amtrak for nearly eight years now. The minority in the Legislative Branch is also more than willing to fund Amtrak. Even the Judicial Branch hasn't done anything to seriously undermine Amtrak in recent memory. Most of Amtrak's serious detractors are limited to a single anti-government political party so let's not get stuck in a low effort false equivalency trap.

BCL said:

Food trucks don't make fresh food. Most of it is prepared (or partially prepared) well in advance and basically reheated. They all have kitchen facilities in a permanent location.

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That sounds like a distinction without a difference. I've visited numerous food trucks across multiple cites and states and never once have I found a single food truck that resembled Amtrak's bland and stale commissary chow.

It's my impression the kitchen on a Amtrak train is quite busy, even with lots of commissary pre-prepared items - like pre-cooked bacon.

I think on the LD trains the kitchen staff is the Chef and just one or 2 Food Specialists.

On a LD train those 2 or 3 have a long day preparing breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Define "made totally fresh".

Small kitchens along all the various route would require quite a few additional employees. Employees that wouldn't actually be needed on a full-time basis.

Unless the drastically overhauled the kitchens; the equipment onboard should be quite adequate to cook quite good fresh meals on board. It's more a matter of staff & supplies.

That all being said it is perfectly possible to have good & cheap pre-prepared food on board a train, Amtrak has just decided (and I'm not certain it really is much of a financial reason, yes that's what they'll claim...) to go for the cheap cafeteria type food.

peter

There's really no good-enough FUNDING excuse for the poor quality of Amtrak food.

I personally, on multiple occasions, have seen two volunteers (sometimes one!) produce delicious, nutritious meals for 50-100 or more at camps, outdoors, supplied with nothing more than a random assortment of donated or scavenged food plus a few staples, using primitive propane stoves or campfires and nothing but coolers for refrigeration.

Of course you don't get steak dinners on a zero budget. But I'd trade any number of meals I've eaten, prepared as noted above, for almost anything I've eaten out of an Amtrak kitchen.

Not to put words in DA's mouth, but the chief "cultural" problem I see is with whoever's in charge of running Amtrak's food service. They could do a LOT better with the same money or possibly even less. Compare, for example, the turkey shank that used to be served on some trains, with the sad beef stewish option currently being served on the CONO. I doubt that the ingredients for the former cost more than those for the latter.

And don't get me started on the sorry, soggy state of the vegetables. :wacko:

Amtrak could do so much better, even without spending more money. Heck, I'm sure that if they bought more INGREDIENTS and fewer packaged heat-and-serve concoctions, they could spend LESS on better-quality food--perhaps enough less to be able to afford to pay properly trained staff to prepare and cook the stuff.

OK, end of rant. I love traveling on Amtrak, but am approaching the point where I dread the dining car.

I'm with DA and Tricia on this one! Two years ago Amtrak food was really getting better, enter Mica with his Witch hunt and Mr. Boardman's impossible to keep pledge to eliminate losses on food and beverage services, and voila!, today's bland National menu!

My personal gripe is with the change in deserts, which used to be excellent( ever have that delicious Bourbon Pecan Pie on the CONO or the Crescent?),and of course what they did with the Star and CONO is a disgrace! YMMV

Whenever Amtrak is told to "cut dining costs" by idiots in Congress, the management even-more-idiotically cuts the quality and quantity of the *FOOD*. Which is a tiny fraction of the costs of operation of the dining service; the costs are mostly staff salaries, car maintenance, etc. When Amtrak does cut staffing it does so in an idiotic way which slows down service and decreases turnover.

Really the way to "cut dining costs" is to sell more food and turn tables over faster -- higher volume with the same expenses, generating more revenue to *cover* the costs.. But there's been a myopic focus on costs, while ignoring efficiency.

There is one Mexican restaurant in my town which I swear must have the best profit margin of any restaurant in town. They fill up not only for dinner but also for lunch, and they're busy all day every day, even Mondays. They turn tables over faster than any other sit-down restaurant in town, because they take orders fast, they deliver orders fast, and they bring the check fast. The kitchen internally is organized in assembly-line fashion, though each dish is prepared by a single person -- the chefs each walk around in a continuous circle from station to station. The ingredients are high quality; the sauces are pre-prepared (in the morning before opening for lunch) as are the fillings (this is also when they cook the chips and shred the cheese); it's assemble, cook, deliver. They have rather high-quality food and rather low prices. They also have a lot of waiters and a lot of people in the kitchen, and by all accounts they're unusually well paid. But they've figured out how to *mass produce food quickly*: by feeding two parties in the time other restaurants would feed one party, and handling a huge number of tables out of a small kitchen, they make money on volume. Obviously their exact model wouldn't work for Amtrak (I think people would be annoyed by nothing but Mexican food) but you get the idea.

There is a fresh cooked, locally sourced breakfast but you will have to head across the pond to enjoy.

The Great Western Railway offers this mouth watering offering on selected services from the west of England to London on their high speed service.

https://www.gwr.com/your-journey/journey-information/on-board/~/media/72e9fadadd474e59a97070cb17ff3f6a.ashx

You will note the price is an eye watering 18 pounds or $26.

If you are still hungry on the way home, they also offer a steak dinner for $41.

Outside the expense account riders on the NEC, not sure how much Amtrak would sell at those prices.

Last March myself and two other lucky sleeper passengers had a very good breakfast with Mark Murphy (Amtrak VP of LD routes). I had no complaints and neither did the others about the food on the Southwest Chief.

Earlier on the California Zephyr, I did have a fish meal that was about the worst I have ever eaten (anywhere not just Amtrak).

On both trips I was using Amtrak Guest Rewards points and could eat anything on the menu. I don't remember ever getting a bad steak.

I'm hoping that Mark has saved the route of the SWC through Raton for at least another year. He was on his way to a rail users meeting in Los Angeles last March.

philabos said:

There is a fresh cooked, locally sourced breakfast but you will have to head across the pond to enjoy.

The Great Western Railway offers this mouth watering offering on selected services from the west of England to London on their high speed service.

https://www.gwr.com/your-journey/journey-information/on-board/~/media/72e9fadadd474e59a97070cb17ff3f6a.ashx

You will note the price is an eye watering 18 pounds or $26.

If you are still hungry on the way home, they also offer a steak dinner for $41.

Outside the expense account riders on the NEC, not sure how much Amtrak would sell at those prices.

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It doesn't have to be that expensive. Let's get back to the Philly example. I can watch the person in the cart make bacon, eggs, and toast in front of me on the tiniest griddle. It tastes great and costs maybe 3.50 for a blt or similar. I can get a lot of other great stuff for $5 or less. I don't see why Amtrak can't make the same quality stuff in their comparably huge kitchen and charge more if they want.

As for the UK example, I don't think that is insanely expensive for an occasional thing if it's excellent. But no, I wouldn't do it on a regular basis!

No one here has probably seen the UK-version of Kitchen Nightmares with Ramsay; however over there in the show he much more concerned with the quality of the food keeping prices down and customers up rather then the emotional baggage they tout here in the US version. I'd love to see him do a UK-style Nightmares on Amtrak!

peter

I have, it's awesome. Way better than the crap version we get here in the US.

I have seen, over and over again, all the episodes of Kitchen Nightmares - UK and US. Ramsay's brilliance is that he changes the staff conviction to SERVE GOOD STUFF. Plain and simple. Unfortunately the Amtrak fish doesn't swim in that pond.. In the words of Dick Clark I would rate my overall Amtrak Dining experience as an 80, easy to dance to but sometimes the lyrics are fuzzy.

The success of any business is the willingness of the staff to provide good service. If you haven't got that you are navigating and estuary lacking any means or propulsion.

Father was an old swede who lived by doing the best with what you have. Rant about Micah et. al - that is not the fix. Getting good folk to do good stuff with what they have is the key. I lament the loss of the "specials" because they gave a good chef the chance to show his stuff. If folks care about what they do it will show in their work. Mother used to say "If you get to go to work you are OK, you are only in trouble when you have to go to work." Sadly that is the case with many people. You see it all the time.

I live five miles outside a town of 6,000. The high school has about 200 kids in a class. The superintendent used to whine he didn't have the facilities the kids need yet when I would attend a band concert the place was a pig sty . I told him that he couldn't' take care of what he had. The smart man would make sure the place shined every time every time the tourists (parents) showed up.

Simply put better ingredients no doubt would improve the quality of the currently slightly above average product but not to the level a committed staff would make. The way to do that is recognize and reward success, which is awkward in the current environment but if management wanted to they could. But I prefer not to start that rant,,,,,,

I am not a gourmand in any way, but I find Amtrak food is pretty dire. I have mostly enjoyed "ethnic" food offerings in America, over the usual pizza, hot dogs and burgers that are available nationwide. My perception is that although there are excellent food options in the USA, many folk seem to feel that a certain make of hot dog or crusty pizza is a premium meal, rather than junk food.

Railway catering is not great in the western world, and fresh cooked food is probably very rare... but the Amtrak fare is hard to swallow. Give me a food truck meal anytime!

Ed.

As a Trails and Rails volunteer for the past 2 years taking an average of five ATL-NOL round trips a year, I have no issues with the food. A few times it has been less than optimal, but the quality is generally pretty good and some things have been beyond that. IMO, they do a good job considering the constraints they have.

BCL said:

Food trucks don't make fresh food. Most of it is prepared (or partially prepared) well in advance and basically reheated. They all have kitchen facilities in a permanent location.

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Very, very, very, INCORRECT.