Police End Inquiry into Train/Car Collision

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transit54

Conductor
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
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Many of you likely remember the tragic crash about a month and a half ago where five teenagers were killed after their car was driven around lowered grade crossing gates. It appears the police have concluded the investigation, finding the driver at fault.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090827/ME...train/car-crash

The story also includes the video from the locomotive's camera system. Nothing graphic, but you can see the collision.
 
rnizlek said:
Many of you likely remember the tragic crash about a month and a half ago where five teenagers were killed after their car was driven around lowered grade crossing gates. It appears the police have concluded the investigation, finding the driver at fault.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090827/ME...train/car-crash

The story also includes the video from the locomotive's camera system. Nothing graphic, but you can see the collision.
Click to expand...
How terrible. There is no way the engineer could have stopped in time. I feel bad for all the people/staff on the train, & the ones who died as a result of the driver.
 
Yeah, I don't think stopping in time was even considered, it was after the crossing you hear the emergency brakes. He didn't even have any reaction time. Geesh. How sad. For all those involved.
 
A friend and I were on the evening Wolverine the day after this happened but knew nothing of it until our cabbie at ARB mentioned it. The Conductor you see in the video was our Conductor on the return trip to CUS; when he saw my scanner he mentioned he was on that crew. From the video it is obvious the Engineer could do absolutely nothing and was giving plenty of warning for the crossing.
 
The Conductor you see in the video was our Conductor on the return trip to CUS; when he saw my scanner he mentioned he was on that crew.
Click to expand...
What is the procedure for giving train crews time off immediately after a fatal accident?
 
DET63 said:
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
DET63 said:
The Conductor you see in the video was our Conductor on the return trip to CUS; when he saw my scanner he mentioned he was on that crew.
Click to expand...
What is the procedure for giving train crews time off immediately after a fatal accident?
Click to expand...
They have it on the table, nothing holding them to it.
Click to expand...
So it's optional, not mandatory?
Click to expand...
Optional. Its generous and probably a good idea just to take what you need, but still--
 
Wow, I've never seen a video like that before. I'm kind of surprised they put it on the web like that. I can't even imagine how terrible this is for the engineer and the conductor who has to go out and see what the situation is. Just watching that video from the engineer's POV made me think "worst day of my life".

It seems these events are sadly not that uncommon. I wonder how many train engineers have been witness to a fatal crash like this.

I didn't know cars had "black boxes" that record the speed, use of seat belts and traffic signals, etc. Sounds like the next step should be PTC for cars that will shut a car down when near an activated train crossing.
 
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
DET63 said:
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
DET63 said:
The Conductor you see in the video was our Conductor on the return trip to CUS; when he saw my scanner he mentioned he was on that crew.
Click to expand...
What is the procedure for giving train crews time off immediately after a fatal accident?
Click to expand...
They have it on the table, nothing holding them to it.
Click to expand...
So it's optional, not mandatory?
Click to expand...
Optional. Its generous and probably a good idea just to take what you need, but still--
Click to expand...
BTW, our return trip was six days after the collision.
 
rnizlek said:
Many of you likely remember the tragic crash about a month and a half ago where five teenagers were killed after their car was driven around lowered grade crossing gates. It appears the police have concluded the investigation, finding the driver at fault.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090827/ME...train/car-crash

The story also includes the video from the locomotive's camera system. Nothing graphic, but you can see the collision.
Click to expand...
From what I observed the driver was racing the train,ran around the gates and bang/bang!Nothing the engineer could do of course,its too bad some kids had to die,I know when cops and paramedics are involved in terrible incidents they get time off and counseling,Im pretty sure train crews do too,if not they should!PTSS is real,not just soldiers have it!Good thing the train didnt derail too or there could have been more deaths!Anyone that opposes train whistles and harder grade crossings should watch this video a few times!
 
jimhudson said:
rnizlek said:
Many of you likely remember the tragic crash about a month and a half ago where five teenagers were killed after their car was driven around lowered grade crossing gates. It appears the police have concluded the investigation, finding the driver at fault.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090827/ME...train/car-crash

The story also includes the video from the locomotive's camera system. Nothing graphic, but you can see the collision.
Click to expand...
From what I observed the driver was racing the train,ran around the gates and bang/bang!Nothing the engineer could do of course,its too bad some kids had to die,I know when cops and paramedics are involved in terrible incidents they get time off and counseling,Im pretty sure train crews do too,if not they should!PTSS is real,not just soldiers have it!Good thing the train didnt derail too or there could have been more deaths!Anyone that opposes train whistles and harder grade crossings should watch this video a few times!
Click to expand...
That's NOT what happened...

There was an SUV stopped at the crossing when the victim car was speeding at 70mph a little bit behind them. They slowed and swerved around the stopped SUV and into the crossing to meet the train.

They were going so fast I doubt they even wondered about the train signals.
 
In addition to having the option to be relived at the scene, both the engineer and the conductor also have the option to seek counsel to help deal with the horrors of such an accident.

Even then, those images will without a doubt be indelibly stenciled into their minds forever.
 
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
They were going so fast I doubt they even wondered about the train signals.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. I could have brought my car to a dead halt in the distance the store camera covered for that run up to the SUV- let alone the distance between the rear bumper of the SUV and the tracks. Infact, I could have done it from a much higher speed than 70 and without engaging the ABS, either. Granting that I drive a Mercedes and that a Ford Fusion won't have the quality of brakes or the stability of a Merc, or my experience with road rallying, the kid could still have stopped the car.

That is not what the various videos or his black box indicated. It indicated he had very deliberately slowed with the car down with the specific intent of swerving around the gates and manuvering out the other side. The bloody fool was expecting a freight train.

I deeply sympathize with the 4 passengers in that car, assuming they were not encouraging him. I very deeply sympathize with those passengers families. I have even more sympathy for the T&E people who had to live through this. I have very limited sympathy for the fools family- they let him drive without a license- and I have nothing by the utmost contempt for the driver.
 
Green Maned Lion said:
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
They were going so fast I doubt they even wondered about the train signals.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. I could have brought my car to a dead halt in the distance the store camera covered for that run up to the SUV- let alone the distance between the rear bumper of the SUV and the tracks. Infact, I could have done it from a much higher speed than 70 and without engaging the ABS, either. Granting that I drive a Mercedes and that a Ford Fusion won't have the quality of brakes or the stability of a Merc, or my experience with road rallying, the kid could still have stopped the car.

That is not what the various videos or his black box indicated. It indicated he had very deliberately slowed with the car down with the specific intent of swerving around the gates and manuvering out the other side. The bloody fool was expecting a freight train.

I deeply sympathize with the 4 passengers in that car, assuming they were not encouraging him. I very deeply sympathize with those passengers families. I have even more sympathy for the T&E people who had to live through this. I have very limited sympathy for the fools family- they let him drive without a license- and I have nothing by the utmost contempt for the driver.
Click to expand...
I didnt know the details when I posted,just looking @ the video my impressions were just as you said GML.I couldnt have said it better!
 
Green Maned Lion said:
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
They were going so fast I doubt they even wondered about the train signals.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. I could have brought my car to a dead halt in the distance the store camera covered for that run up to the SUV- let alone the distance between the rear bumper of the SUV and the tracks. Infact, I could have done it from a much higher speed than 70 and without engaging the ABS, either. Granting that I drive a Mercedes and that a Ford Fusion won't have the quality of brakes or the stability of a Merc, or my experience with road rallying, the kid could still have stopped the car.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying the driver is totally nuts, I just think he was pissed off at the driver who came to a dead stop as he was going 70mph behind him.

If you watch the signal video he approaches at full speed and brakes suddenly and swerves to avoid rear ending the stopped car?

Was he speeding, yes.

Did he ignore the signal, yes.

Was he trying to outrun the train, I doubt it.

Think about it GML. If you are trying to beat the train why would you slow down from 70 to 25 as you approach the tracks?
 
Aloha

One think I noticed from the sounds on this video, were about 2 seconds after the car is visable you hear the throttling back of the engine, thereby compressing the train and protecting his passengers to some degree. At about 8 seconds after the car was first visible is when you hear the emergency braking.

To me that say's a very attentive, and quick reaction time, on his part, and Minimized more injuries.

Mahalo

Eric
 
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
Think about it GML. If you are trying to beat the train why would you slow down from 70 to 25 as you approach the tracks?
Click to expand...
To avoid getting decapitated as I understeered into the far-side barrier.

Do you drive a car?

You can only be moving so fast- especially in a front-wheel-drive car such as a Fusion - before your car stops responding to the steering as you intend it to. The car continues in a straighter line than you intend and plows.

I don't drive particularly fast on public roads anymore- especially when there is traffic. However, I was a kid once too, and I did do that. I also rally-race a lot- I still hold the record for a naturally aspirated diesel for the NJ chapter of the MBCCA. Driving a car fast, as this kid apparently does, is not easy. It involves balancing steering, throttle, and brake, such that you use the kinetic energy of the physics involved to not just move your car, but to throw weight around the car's four wheels so as to maximize control and speed.

I know all about this- this is how I set records in a 134 hp, 3500 lb sedan. To negotiate around the barriers without smashing into them, he had to slow down. Do that at 70 mph and you end up on your roof, or with the barrier inside the drivers cabin, depending on various factors.
 
While I remain somewhat uneasy about the release of this video into the public domain, it could serve one important purpose, to show people just how frickin' long it takes for a train to slow and stop - even with the emergency brakes applied.
 
jamesbrownontheroad said:
While I remain somewhat uneasy about the release of this video into the public domain, it could serve one important purpose, to show people just how frickin' long it takes for a train to slow and stop - even with the emergency brakes applied.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with the release of the video. Period, the end. People need to know what the hell they risk when they pull a bullheaded move as demonstrated.
 
GG-1 said:
One think I noticed from the sounds on this video, were about 2 seconds after the car is visable you hear the throttling back of the engine, thereby compressing the train and protecting his passengers to some degree. At about 8 seconds after the car was first visible is when you hear the emergency braking.
Click to expand...
While I'm far from an expert on things, I don't believe that's what happened at all.

I'm pretty sure that the engineer hit the emergency button, after all that is what they're taught to do in an emergency. Hitting the button automatically throttles back the engine and activates the air brakes immediately. That loud whirring/whining noise that you hear a few seconds later is the engine's dynamic brakes engaging to further aid in stopping the train as rapidly as is possible. It takes a bit longer to setup the dynamic braking, even though it is still triggered by hitting the mushroom, which is why you don't hear the noise immediately. And you can also hear the noise gradually diminish as the trains comes to a stop. Air brakes don't do that when in emergency, they just blow out all the air and clamp down on the brakes.

Perhaps if Dutch or someone else who drives the GE Genesis model engines for a living see this topic and the video they can confirm or deny this, but that's what I believe happened from what I'm hearing and seeing.

Yes, the odds weren't good that anyone was going to survive in that car, but I can't imagine any engineer taking the chance that by performing a more normal stop that the extra travel doesn't end up killing someone who survived the initial impact. Anyone sitting in that chair under those circumstances is going to have one of two reactions, either they freeze for a few seconds before hitting the kill button or they immediately hit the kill button. You just don't perform a graduated stop, especially when the car is now unfortunately essentially a hood ornament, as that alone could derail the engine and take out the rest of the train with it.
 
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Boy do I feel for that poor conductor. You can just see it in his body language as he arrives in front and looks at that car, he knows that it's hopeless and that there is nothing that can be done. That poor guy! :(
 
I'm pretty heartless, but that video got to me too. Released? Yes, it does some good as a possible "Warning" for kids who see it. Sure as hell wish we had $$$ to fully protect all crossings, but alas, that is pipe dream even beyond Obama's budget.........
 
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