GoldenSpike
Lead Service Attendant
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1976 AMTRAK Map
- Thread starter GoldenSpike
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ns4eva
Train Attendant
If only they still ran through Bluefield, WV as it shows they did, then I'd only have an hours drive to a station instead of 4. 
Anyone know what the train name was for the route that went through Roanoke, VA and Bluefield, WV/VA or any other info?
Anyone know what the train name was for the route that went through Roanoke, VA and Bluefield, WV/VA or any other info?
If only they still ran through Bluefield, WV as it shows they did, then I'd only have an hours drive to a station instead of 4.
Anyone know what the train name was for the route that went through Roanoke, VA and Bluefield, WV/VA or any other info?
VentureForth
Engineer
While there are a lot of sad bygones (ie: Laredo to Newton, Denver to Ogden through Cheyenne, and of course Chicago to Jaxsonville via Birmingham), I see some marked improvements, too, like ... umm ... ok - never mind. Just one. The Carolinian connecting Salisbury to Rocky Mount through Raliegh is good stuff.
Interesting map. Thanks!
Interesting map. Thanks!
Hanno
OBS Chief
I was really surprised to see how different it is today as compared to 1977!
frj1983
OBS Chief
I think a more direct Chicago-Florida train like the one on the map would be excellent. I know there's a problem with the current trackage and that thought might indeed be a pipe-dream, but it would be neat if we could get Louisville and Nashville back on the map somehow!
ns4eva
Train Attendant
http://www.filehive.com/files/090520/Hilltopper.jpgIf only they still ran through Bluefield, WV as it shows they did, then I'd only have an hours drive to a station instead of 4.
Anyone know what the train name was for the route that went through Roanoke, VA and Bluefield, WV/VA or any other info?
HOLY COW! Thanks! I take that back about Bluefield, WV, only 40 minutes to Welch, WV. A darn shame it's gone.
Maybe again one day in the distant future.printman2000
Engineer
Notice the Crescent is still being run by Southern. It is a non-Amtrak route.
wayman
Engineer
And note that this means in 1976 Lynchburg still had two separate train stations! The Hilltopper stopped at 5100 Woodall Rd, which is four miles away from the Southern Rwy's Kemper St Station (where the Crescent stopped then and still stops today).
Link to a Google Map. Also note that the former N&W station was on the "double-wye"!
Rafi: Knowing Amtrak had a "Hilltopper" running (NEC)-LYH-ROA once upon a time, this is now my favorite name for the new LYH (and eventually ROA) extended Regional. Sure, it's on different trackage (WAS-LYH instead of WAS-RVM?-LYH; and ROA-BST? instead of ROA-XBG?) but ... great name. The right name. Also... when they extend to Roanoke, I hope they add a Bedford stop. The station's still there, I believe, as a restaurant. Adding adjacent minimal station facilities nearby wouldn't be hard.
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Those were some odd call times for the endpoints. And odd endpoints too. Can't imagine there being lots of ridership. Did it by chance connect with the Cardinal at Tri-State station?
wayman
Engineer
Well, note the numbers: this was 66/67, so overnight on the NEC just like today, but back then it kept going. Perfectly reasonable times all the way to Williamson WV, the next-to-last stop on the line--a very nice local day-train through western VA and WV!
Comparing yesteryear's Hilltopper to today's Cardinal...
Westbound Hilltopper (1976) at Catlettsburg, 12:45 AM
Westbound Cardinal (2009) at Ashland, 9:58 PM
... so no connection "today", but note the Cardinal's stop in Ashland was 11:53 PM in the April 2005 timetable, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were another 90-120 minutes later in 1976 to accommodate this connection, giving folks from Richmond, Lynchburg, Roanoke, etc, a more direct route to Chicago.
Eastbound Cardinal (2009) at Ashland, 6:29 AM
Eastbound Hilltopper (1976) at Catlettsburg, 5:33 AM
... so also no connection "today", ... and the Cardinal's stop in Ashland was 8:04 AM in the April 2005 timetable, which is a shift in the wrong direction. Huh. Still, there are thirty years of schedule changes for the Cardinal between 1976 and 2005.
So my bet is that the 1976 Cardinal made this connection. Can we see a schedule for it? I just can't see why they'd bother going to Catlettsburg (essentially Ashland) without trying to make that connection work.
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I would enjoy seeing a Chicago-Florida train again too...maybe routed via Cincinnti because of better track conditions. Or how about a Midwest Auto train, out of lets say Beech Grove in Indianapolis. They have plenty of spare land around the area that could be developed, its close to the Interstate...It's central to many midwest cites...and what better place to maintain the train, with you main Superliner shop right next door.I think a more direct Chicago-Florida train like the one on the map would be excellent. I know there's a problem with the current trackage and that thought might indeed be a pipe-dream, but it would be neat if we could get Louisville and Nashville back on the map somehow!
wayman
Engineer
There were no Pioneer or Desert Wind in 1976! That was a surprise to me.
I have now learned that the Pioneer started in June 1977, and the Desert Wind in October 1979, per Wikipedia--both new LD services started by Amtrak. Of course, these routes saw service up until A-Day: The Pioneer's route was covered by two daily UP trains per day until 1971, then nothing until 1977; and the Desert Wind's route was covered by the UP/C&NW City of Los Angeles until 1971, then nothing until 1979.
How many other LD trains were killed on (or before) A-Day and after a service gap were more-or-less re-instated by Amtrak?
I have now learned that the Pioneer started in June 1977, and the Desert Wind in October 1979, per Wikipedia--both new LD services started by Amtrak. Of course, these routes saw service up until A-Day: The Pioneer's route was covered by two daily UP trains per day until 1971, then nothing until 1977; and the Desert Wind's route was covered by the UP/C&NW City of Los Angeles until 1971, then nothing until 1979.
How many other LD trains were killed on (or before) A-Day and after a service gap were more-or-less re-instated by Amtrak?
October 1978 Table showing Cardinal and Hilltopper.
transit54
Conductor
If only the Montrealer were still around...I'd probably fly 1/4 or less of the flights that I do now.
The Hilltopper replaced the Mountaineer which Amtrak started in 1974. The Mountaineer provided through service from Chicago to Norfolk (Lambert's Point), VA. N&W had run the Pocahantas on a similar schedule from Cincinnati to Norfolk until April 30, 1971 when Amtrak started. The cities along the N&W line were clamoring for a return of service, but didn't support the train very well.http://www.filehive.com/files/090520/Hilltopper.jpgIf only they still ran through Bluefield, WV as it shows they did, then I'd only have an hours drive to a station instead of 4.
Anyone know what the train name was for the route that went through Roanoke, VA and Bluefield, WV/VA or any other info?
HOLY COW! Thanks! I take that back about Bluefield, WV, only 40 minutes to Welch, WV. A darn shame it's gone.
NativeSon5859
Conductor
Is that the National Limited I see there? That route served some nice sized markets. I heard the on time performance was very poor which attributed to low ridership.
I rode the National limited a couple of time in the 70's, once behind E-8's and steam heated equipment, and later after it went F-40 HEP and Amfleet. Both times I rode the train was very full. But by then the old Pennsy Panhandle division was suffering from Penn Central maintenance...or lack there of, and most of what once was 80 MPH track was down to 60 or worse. With lots of slow orders. Now much of the route from Indianapolis to Columbus Ohio is gone completely. If the train was somehow ever brought back it would need a new route. Maybe Indy to Cleveland on the ex NYC "B-line" and then over to Pittsburgh.
VentureForth
Engineer
Tri-State station looks like a WAY cool place to train watch. I would LOVE to take the Hilltopper or The Mountaineer! I guess I'll have to settle for the Cardinal.
A photo of the Hilltopper. Wow - one BC/Cafe car and a coach? That's it? That's a lot of power, then again, maybe it wasn't...
As for the schedule, the Hilltopper made pretty good sense - at least to Tri-State, but should have gone on through Cincinatti and on to Chicago. The Mountaineer had a LOUSY route, taking nearly 25 hours and covering 1000 miles to hit only two major population centers (that are only 280 miles apart) connecting to two minor population centers on the other end (Roanoke and Norfolk - Norfolk? HUH???)
I really like the current Cardinal route. Takes the best of all the seemingly dumb ideas and make a good route of it.
A photo of the Hilltopper. Wow - one BC/Cafe car and a coach? That's it? That's a lot of power, then again, maybe it wasn't...
As for the schedule, the Hilltopper made pretty good sense - at least to Tri-State, but should have gone on through Cincinatti and on to Chicago. The Mountaineer had a LOUSY route, taking nearly 25 hours and covering 1000 miles to hit only two major population centers (that are only 280 miles apart) connecting to two minor population centers on the other end (Roanoke and Norfolk - Norfolk? HUH???)
I really like the current Cardinal route. Takes the best of all the seemingly dumb ideas and make a good route of it.
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The Floridian too suffered from Penn Central lack of track maintenance between Chicago and Louisville. The trip often took 12 hours or more to travel just over 300 miles. In 1975, they permanantly shifted it to the former Monon line from Chicago to Louisville after some temporary reroutes over the C&EI/L&N between Chicago and Nashville. Most of the through Chicago - Florida passengers were long gone after horrible delays of the first 4 years of Amtrak. The right of ways would need to be updated from Chicago to Jacksonville so travel time would be similar to the City of Miami/SouthWind of the early 1950s to attract any through passengers from Chicago to Florida. You would also have to convince CSX or NS that the upgrades and running a passenger train would be a positive move for them.
Here is the first Amtrak table from 1971.
the_traveler
Engineer
Looking at the 2 maps, it looks like the CS bypassed SAC on both! Is this correct? :huh: And if so, what route did it take?
GoldenSpike
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
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Having traveled the EB many times going to MSP or CHI, the route I enjoyed in '76 is the one the NP used to take: SEA-YAK, on to Pasco, Missoula, etc.
Applying it to the present, I don't get the logic of bypassing all the population centers in MT. Instead they use the northern route busing pax south to select cities. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
GoldenSpike
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2009
- Messages
- 319
Pocahantas? Did you mean Powhatan Arrow? which was pre-AMTRAK?The Hilltopper replaced the Mountaineer which Amtrak started in 1974. The Mountaineer provided through service from Chicago to Norfolk (Lambert's Point), VA. N&W had run the Pocahantas on a similar schedule from Cincinnati to Norfolk until April 30, 1971 when Amtrak started. The cities along the N&W line were clamoring for a return of service, but didn't support the train very well.http://www.filehive.com/files/090520/Hilltopper.jpgIf only they still ran through Bluefield, WV as it shows they did, then I'd only have an hours drive to a station instead of 4.
Anyone know what the train name was for the route that went through Roanoke, VA and Bluefield, WV/VA or any other info?
HOLY COW! Thanks! I take that back about Bluefield, WV, only 40 minutes to Welch, WV. A darn shame it's gone.
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