Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I wouldn't call the LSL route particularly indirect. Sure, it goes a bit north, but at less than 20 hours, it's still pretty quick (by Amtrak LD standards).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?
No. Just use the link called the New York or Pittsburgh Subway at Zoo, like the real PRR Broadway did. Much faster than futzing around Reading and Allentown.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?
No. Just use the link called the New York or Pittsburgh Subway at Zoo, like the real PRR Broadway did. Much faster than futzing around Reading and Allentown.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

Would it stop at North Philly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?
No. Just use the link called the New York or Pittsburgh Subway at Zoo, like the real PRR Broadway did. Much faster than futzing around Reading and Allentown.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

Would it stop at North Philly?

 

That's what the PRR did...the only New York-Chicago train serving 30th Street Station was the Pennsylvania Limited, which went backwards between New York and Philly....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?

 

 

Restoring passenger rail service to Pennsylvania's third and fifth-largest cities would be glorious. Philadelphia passengers could transfer to the Keystone Service in Harrisburg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?

 

 

Restoring passenger rail service to Pennsylvania's third and fifth-largest cities would be glorious. Philadelphia passengers could transfer to the Keystone Service in Harrisburg.

 

Running a separate train, on the slower New York-Allentown-Reading-Harrisburg route, and having those passengers transfer to the thru train at Harrisburg would be the better way to do it..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.

 

But oh so slow due to mountains and curves. In 1956-1960, the 20th Century Limited got from NY to Chicago in 15:45 via the water level route, while the Erie-Lackawanna (and Nickel Plate) competing train took 22 hours via the southern tier. That's slower than today's LSL! Running a train slower than Amtrak does now took some doing...

 

Ainamkartma

Edited by ainamkartma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.

 

But oh so slow due to mountains and curves. In 1956-1960, the 20th Century Limited got from NY to Chicago in 15:45 via the water level route, while the Erie-Lackawanna (and Nickel Plate) competing train took 22 hours via the southern tier. That's slower than today's LSL! Running a train slower than Amtrak does now took some doing...

 

Ainamkartma

 

Is there any chance of service ever returning to that region of New York?

Edited by railgeekteen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.

 

But oh so slow due to mountains and curves. In 1956-1960, the 20th Century Limited got from NY to Chicago in 15:45 via the water level route, while the Erie-Lackawanna (and Nickel Plate) competing train took 22 hours via the southern tier. That's slower than today's LSL! Running a train slower than Amtrak does now took some doing...

 

Ainamkartma

 

Is there any chance of service ever returning to that region of New York?

 

Certainly, as long as New York state pays for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.

 

But oh so slow due to mountains and curves. In 1956-1960, the 20th Century Limited got from NY to Chicago in 15:45 via the water level route, while the Erie-Lackawanna (and Nickel Plate) competing train took 22 hours via the southern tier. That's slower than today's LSL! Running a train slower than Amtrak does now took some doing...

 

Ainamkartma

 

Is there any chance of service ever returning to that region of New York?

 

Certainly, as long as New York state pays for it.

 

Am aware of that, but has there been any serious talk from anyone about service coming back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you said "any chance" not "are there serious discussions about..."

 

In any case, "serious talk" to New York's Souther Tier would have to include financing from the State of New York, as it would not be part of the National Network train but subject to PRIIA 750 mile state/local funding requirements. So that necessary precondition is not entirely flippant.

Edited by zephyr17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you said "any chance" not "are there serious discussions about..."

 

In any case, "serious talk" to New York's Souther Tier would have to include financing from the State of New York, as it would not be part of the National Network train but subject to PRIIA 750 mile state/local funding requirements. So that necessary precondition is not entirely flippant.

Like have any local leaders mentioned or lobbied for service?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All serious proposals for Southern Tier rail service -- and there have been several -- run in a different direction.

 

Hoboken-Scranton (via Lackawanna Cutoff) - Binghamton. Schumer supported extending that Binghamton-Cortland-Syracuse. There is an active local group trying to get service to Binghamton-Elmira-Corning... but like everyone else, it's clear to most of them that the Erie route is no good and it would have to go via Scranton and the Lackawanna Cutoff.

 

The Lackawanna Cutoff would open up a lot of options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To get back to the original premise of this thread -- what is the most direct.... We all look at a map from above to determine the most direct. But you also need to look at it from the side. A railroad that goes up and down hills may be just as long as the railroad that goes around those hills. So, of course the most direct railroad is the one that goes through the hills. And nothing like that was ever built between Chicago and New York -- except for Interstate 80. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps if they were building it today, and weren't much concerned with going thru the middle of 'nowhere', with no business potential, they could follow the French TGV model, and go in a straight line just to serve the end points....but airplanes would still do much better over that great a distance...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I guess the Pennsylvanian/Capitol Limited route is the most direct, the Cardinal's is the prettiest but longest, and the Lake Shore is the best for Massachusetts and New York.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I guess the Pennsylvanian/Capitol Limited route is the most direct, the Cardinal's is the prettiest but longest, and the Lake Shore is the best for Massachusetts and New York.

Indeed. It would be possibly a few miles shorter than the LSL. Via Fort Wayne was 50 miles shorter than the LSL route, but now it has to travel up all the way to Cleveland to then follow the LSL route, so the difference is probably quite a bit less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, the “best” route is the current LSL, but the “best to add” would be a slightly longer route that travels southern Michigan instead of northern IN. It has the greater potential to add ridership both ways. The only significant city bypassed is South Bend IN (already served by LSL/CL), and you add Detroit - Dearborn - Ann Arbor - Battle Creek - Kalamazoo and less rail traffic headaches. The only big issue is DET-TOL, which is a short section the state of MI could purchase for upgrade.

 

Where it travels east of Cleveland I’ll leave it to others to debate the LSL route vs the BL/TR route. If Philly complains about 2 extra hours through MI, he can always take the Cardinal instead :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, the “best” route is the current LSL, but the “best to add” would be a slightly longer route that travels southern Michigan instead of northern IN. It has the greater potential to add ridership both ways. The only significant city bypassed is South Bend IN (already served by LSL/CL), and you add Detroit - Dearborn - Ann Arbor - Battle Creek - Kalamazoo and less rail traffic headaches. The only big issue is DET-TOL, which is a short section the state of MI could purchase for upgrade.

 

Where it travels east of Cleveland I’ll leave it to others to debate the LSL route vs the BL/TR route. If Philly complains about 2 extra hours through MI, he can always take the Cardinal instead :)

 

I have no problem with the extra 2 hours if it brings in the extra ridership/revenue from Michigan. 2 hours is not a substantial penalty for more R/R. Also Amtrak owns a lot of the track on the Michigan line and can achieve higher speeds on the line. I think it would be great to have a train from Michigan to the East Coast and have it go through Pittsburgh/Philly. I have suggested this several times. PA gets its one seat ride to Chicago and MI gets its one seat ride to Philly/NY. Both sides win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

So I guess the Pennsylvanian/Capitol Limited route is the most direct, the Cardinal's is the prettiest but longest, and the Lake Shore is the best for Massachusetts and New York.

Indeed. It would be possibly a few miles shorter than the LSL. Via Fort Wayne was 50 miles shorter than the LSL route, but now it has to travel up all the way to Cleveland to then follow the LSL route, so the difference is probably quite a bit less.
Here are the distances for all current routes:

925-Capitol Limited to Pennsylvanian

959-Lake Shore Limited

1005-Capitol Limited to NEC

1147-Cardinal

 

Here are the approximate travel times for a through train on each route:

19:05-Capitol Limited to Pennsylvanian

19:29-Lake Shore Limited

21:47-Capitol Limited to NEC

27:45-Cardinal

Edited by brianpmcdonnell17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

So I guess the Pennsylvanian/Capitol Limited route is the most direct, the Cardinal's is the prettiest but longest, and the Lake Shore is the best for Massachusetts and New York.

Indeed. It would be possibly a few miles shorter than the LSL. Via Fort Wayne was 50 miles shorter than the LSL route, but now it has to travel up all the way to Cleveland to then follow the LSL route, so the difference is probably quite a bit less.
Here are the distances for all current routes:

925-Capitol Limited to Pennsylvanian

959-Lake Shore Limited

1005-Capitol Limited to NEC

1147-Cardinal

Here are the approximate travel times for a through train on each route:

17:29-Lake Shore Limited

19:05-Capitol Limited to Pennsylvanian

21:47-Capitol Limited to NEC

27:45-Cardinal

Lake Shore Limited is almost 20 hours, not 17.

 

And the CL/NER from CHI NYP is actually 1006 miles.

(Yes, Im a jerk)

Edited by cpotisch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

So I guess the Pennsylvanian/Capitol Limited route is the most direct, the Cardinal's is the prettiest but longest, and the Lake Shore is the best for Massachusetts and New York.

Indeed. It would be possibly a few miles shorter than the LSL. Via Fort Wayne was 50 miles shorter than the LSL route, but now it has to travel up all the way to Cleveland to then follow the LSL route, so the difference is probably quite a bit less.
Here are the distances for all current routes:

925-Capitol Limited to Pennsylvanian

959-Lake Shore Limited

1005-Capitol Limited to NEC

1147-Cardinal

Here are the approximate travel times for a through train on each route:

17:29-Lake Shore Limited

19:05-Capitol Limited to Pennsylvanian

21:47-Capitol Limited to NEC

27:45-Cardinal

Lake Shore Limited is almost 20 hours, not 17.

 

And the CL/NER from CHI NYP is actually 1006 miles.

(Yes, Im a jerk)

You are correct about the LSL; it was a typo. As to the CL/NER, the difference is probably just due to a rounding error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AA Shuttle....733 :giggle:

 

And the last flight I took from ORD to LGA lasted 1 hour and 31 minutes, gate to gate 1 hour and 48 minutes... :)

Edited by railiner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AA Shuttle....733 :giggle:

 

And the last flight I took from ORD to LGA lasted 1 hour and 31 minutes, gate to gate 1 hour and 48 minutes... :)

Whoah. Usually takes me about 2 1/2 hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×