Amtrak Ink Released

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/960/223/Amtrak-Ink-Aug-Sept-2012.pdf?audienceId=4332455&tiid=47649&rtTracking=1

Noticed that the full dome will be on the Cardinal Oct 27-Nov 16.

Also, the article from Boardman is all about how important the LD trains are.

Thanks for posting that link. Hope Boardman really believes what he said about the LD network. It almost could have been copied right off posts on here.

Noticed on page ?11? that they said the new viewliner sleepers would augment, not replace, the sleepers. Is the plan to take the current sleepers out as new ones come on and convert them (remove the roomette toilets)? Just curious.

Great read, thanks for sharing.

Random thoughts/notes:

165 MPH testing in Jersey? Awesome!

Really awesome picture of Seattle King Street station.

Someone put a F(#$(# BABY on the tracks! NOT awesome.

Kind of depressing that the "Amtrak history" note at the end commemorates the termination of several trains in 1981.

AmtrakBlue said:

Noticed on page ?11? that they said the new viewliner sleepers would augment, not replace, the sleepers. Is the plan to take the current sleepers out as new ones come on and convert them (remove the roomette toilets)? Just curious.

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Don't see how saying that the new CAF sleepers will augment the existing fleet has any meaning towards the reported plan to overhaul and modify the 50 existing Viewliner sleepers. I don't recall any information on when the 50 Viewliners would be converted, but I doubt they would do right away as the new ones from CAF are delivered and are certified for revenue service. Think Amtrak would want to build up the single level sleeper fleet size first, then start the overhaul program to pull a couple of the 50 original Viewliners out of service at a time for overhaul and conversion.

The plan to do 165 mph testing of the Acela between Trenton and New Brunswick in September is a surprise. Don't know what the testing accomplishes, unless they want to get new baseline data on Acela stability and the tracks & catenary responses before starting the project to upgrade the tracks and replace the catenary on the 24 mile segment.

afigg said:

AmtrakBlue said:

Noticed on page ?11? that they said the new viewliner sleepers would augment, not replace, the sleepers. Is the plan to take the current sleepers out as new ones come on and convert them (remove the roomette toilets)? Just curious.

Click to expand...

Don't see how saying that the new CAF sleepers will augment the existing fleet has any meaning towards the reported plan to overhaul and modify the 50 existing Viewliner sleepers. I don't recall any information on when the 50 Viewliners would be converted, but I doubt they would do right away as the new ones from CAF are delivered and are certified for revenue service. Think Amtrak would want to build up the single level sleeper fleet size first, then start the overhaul program to pull a couple of the 50 original Viewliners out of service at a time for overhaul and conversion.

Click to expand...

Ok, I probably mis-remembered things I've read here on AU. I'm not so much of a rail fan that I remember all the details discussed here. But I do enjoy reading what is posted (most of the time :unsure: ). And I do enjoy riding trains!!

1 out of 2 is not bad!

afigg said:

The plan to do 165 mph testing of the Acela between Trenton and New Brunswick in September is a surprise. Don't know what the testing accomplishes, unless they want to get new baseline data on Acela stability and the tracks & catenary responses before starting the project to upgrade the tracks and replace the catenary on the 24 mile segment.

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I sort of knew about this back in Feb but was not at liberty to talk about it in public fora. Heard of it in private conversations with among others the Chief Engineer of the NEC HSR Project.

This is to progress the work in getting Acela sets FRA certified for operating at 160mph. Currently they are certified only for 150mph. The track incidentally is already maintained at a level that would allow 160mph operation as far as track structure goes. It is likely that initially tests will be carried out with full track possession under appropriate waiver so that signaling system upgrades won't be necessary to carry out such tests. That is what was done when Acelas were originally tested and also way back when Metroliners and Turbo Trains were tested on the same track segment for high speed tests.

The photo in the cover is captioned incorrectly. The Cap Ltd is westbound.

jis said:

It is likely that initially tests will be carried out with full track possession under appropriate waiver so that signaling system upgrades won't be necessary to carry out such tests. That is what was done when Acelas were originally tested and also way back when Metroliners and Turbo Trains were tested on the same track segment for high speed tests.

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Full track possession is a testing environment that I assume has the following special conditions:

1. all four tracks will be sealed, 'quarantined' if you will, so that if anything (including the train itself) comes off the tracks, it won't take another with it.

2. passenger platforms on all the stations in between New Brunswick and Trenton, which are Jersey Ave., Princeton Jct., and Hamilton, will be off limits for the same reason, and also for safety against vulnerable catenary snapping (although I have observed the planned addition of new catenary poles or upside down "U" structures going up in between the present structures; to quicken the ability of the wires to handle these speeds while Amtrak gangs replace them with constant tension; then the old stuff comes down and the new ones are the new permanents).

3. to ensure that the 'quarantined' tracks have a minimal disruption to normal operations and traffic, these tests will occur at night?

I would love to watch this live, history unfold if you will, and would be willing to sit in Princeton Jct.'s parking lot on a blanket (if dates are provided, other AU members welcome!! let's talk!!!). Wow...

I presume the testing will take place on the short section of Track 3 between west of Princeton Junction and east of Hamilton that has constant tension catenary.

NE933 said:

jis said:

It is likely that initially tests will be carried out with full track possession under appropriate waiver so that signaling system upgrades won't be necessary to carry out such tests. That is what was done when Acelas were originally tested and also way back when Metroliners and Turbo Trains were tested on the same track segment for high speed tests.

Click to expand...

Full track possession is a testing environment that I assume has the following special conditions:

1. all four tracks will be sealed, 'quarantined' if you will, so that if anything (including the train itself) comes off the tracks, it won't take another with it.

2. passenger platforms on all the stations in between New Brunswick and Trenton, which are Jersey Ave., Princeton Jct., and Hamilton, will be off limits for the same reason, and also for safety against vulnerable catenary snapping (although I have observed the planned addition of new catenary poles or upside down "U" structures going up in between the present structures; to quicken the ability of the wires to handle these speeds while Amtrak gangs replace them with constant tension; then the old stuff comes down and the new ones are the new permanents).

3. to ensure that the 'quarantined' tracks have a minimal disruption to normal operations and traffic, these tests will occur at night?

I would love to watch this live, history unfold if you will, and would be willing to sit in Princeton Jct.'s parking lot on a blanket (if dates are provided, other AU members welcome!! let's talk!!!). Wow...

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Depending on the days and times, I'd be willing to make the trip as well. I'm with you...there's an ineffable, irreplaceable value to being there at the right time.

jis said:

This is to progress the work in getting Acela sets FRA certified for operating at 160mph. Currently they are certified only for 150mph. The track incidentally is already maintained at a level that would allow 160mph operation as far as track structure goes. It is likely that initially tests will be carried out with full track possession under appropriate waiver so that signaling system upgrades won't be necessary to carry out such tests. That is what was done when Acelas were originally tested and also way back when Metroliners and Turbo Trains were tested on the same track segment for high speed tests.

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Would these test runs be done with a 8 car Acela consist or would they use a special 10 car long consist to get data for the extended Acelas with the new coach cars?

I don't know anything beyond what I have already shared. If I happen to run into my friends I'll ask, but at present no such meeting is planned or scheduled for the near future.

afigg said:

AmtrakBlue said:

Noticed on page ?11? that they said the new viewliner sleepers would augment, not replace, the sleepers. Is the plan to take the current sleepers out as new ones come on and convert them (remove the roomette toilets)? Just curious.

Click to expand...

Don't see how saying that the new CAF sleepers will augment the existing fleet has any meaning towards the reported plan to overhaul and modify the 50 existing Viewliner sleepers. I don't recall any information on when the 50 Viewliners would be converted, but I doubt they would do right away as the new ones from CAF are delivered and are certified for revenue service. Think Amtrak would want to build up the single level sleeper fleet size first, then start the overhaul program to pull a couple of the 50 original Viewliners out of service at a time for overhaul and conversion.

The plan to do 165 mph testing of the Acela between Trenton and New Brunswick in September is a surprise. Don't know what the testing accomplishes, unless they want to get new baseline data on Acela stability and the tracks & catenary responses before starting the project to upgrade the tracks and replace the catenary on the 24 mile segment.

Click to expand...

The plan is that once the 25 new sleepers are in and running, they'll start taking the original 5o out of service and give them a mid-life refurbishment, which will include sliding out the existing modules and sliding in the new style room modules. When each car returns to service then, it will have 11 revenue rooms, no in room toilets for the roomettes, and 2 public bathrooms where the attendant's room currently is.

Assuming that delivery goes well, I'd expect that the first cars from the original 50 would start going into Beech Grove by the end of 2015. Best guess is that it will probably take about 2 years to cycle all 50 through Beech Grove for the work.

I fail to see the practical benefit of increasing the Acela maximum speed to 160mph. The time savings of running 160mph verses 150mph over the approximately 30 mile segment that is being upgraded in NJ is about 30 seconds. Why bother to re-certify Acela's top speed (and perhaps spend more money for modifications) just to realize a 30 second run time benefit? It seems like a case of image over substance. If the time came that more mileage was being upgraded, then maybe that would be the time to look at higher speeds, but for an extra 10mph over 30 miles is it really worth it?

I saw someone post a picture of herself and her infant sitting on a railroad track. Granted it may not be used much or at all but it kind of gave me the creeps. This was also in this magazine.

That section in NJ isn't 150 MPH now, right?

So if you're going to upgrade it, what's the cost difference between 135->150 and 135->160?

Will the certification also allow the 150 MPH segments up north to also be run at 160? How much time savings will that bring?

Why? Don't you see, it's a cornerstone, a barrier breaking event intended for more miles later on. Let's hope there will be energy, funding, and ambition to pull it all off. We desperately need something uplifting now more than ever. Where additional track fixing makes sense is the rumble strips maze in Philadelphia, between Zoo and the Frankford Jct. One beaten up turnout after another, and some route in between, whose jointed gapped rails causes all trains to crawl. The idea is to fuel some semblance of momentum. Don't forget there was virtually no track upgrades after the original NEC Improvement Project of the 80's NY - DC. After three decades of nearly zero TLM activity, we can't work it fast enough. Other places that the route can handle 150mph is Elizabeth to Rahway / Linden and the various Delaware stretches. Good for Acela, also good for LD, Regional, and commuter.

Ryan said:

That section in NJ isn't 150 MPH now, right?

So if you're going to upgrade it, what's the cost difference between 135->150 and 135->160?

Will the certification also allow the 150 MPH segments up north to also be run at 160? How much time savings will that bring?

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The New Jersey section being upgraded is 135mph today and, assuming the geometry works (and it does), the differential cost of upgrading to 160 vs 150 is negligible. No arguement there.

My point is whether the cost to re-certify the Acela trainsets for 160mph operation verses using the sets as is with the present 150mph maximum speed in worth the effort. In order to achieve the extra 10mph, the sets have to go through a new testing program. Maybe that is not a big deal, or maybe it is. It just seems like a waste of effort for an extra 10mph which amounts to 30 seconds of schedule improvement for the NJ section (and about another 30 seconds of improvement if the RI-MA 150mph sections were also upgraded to 160mph). Thirty seconds is background noise in either the WAS-NYP or NYP-BOS schedules.

The actual value of the NJ work does not come from the speed increase. It comes from all the ancillary improvements to the electric traction system and the track, interlockings and signals. Those are major improvements, but they exist behind the scenes and it's hard to get the public excited about new substations (except maybe me). The speed improvement is nice from a PR perspective, but for this short a segment, is of little real value as transportation enhancement. Re-certifying trainsets to shave 30 seconds off a 165 minute trip is more for image than substance and seems like a waste of precious resources.

PRR 60 said:

The New Jersey section being upgraded is 135mph today and, assuming the geometry works (and it does), the differential cost of upgrading to 160 vs 150 is negligible. No arguement there.

My point is whether the cost to re-certify the Acela trainsets for 160mph operation verses using the sets as is with the present 150mph maximum speed in worth the effort. In order to achieve the extra 10mph, the sets have to go through a new testing program. Maybe that is not a big deal, or maybe it is. It just seems like a waste of effort for an extra 10mph which amounts to 30 seconds of schedule improvement for the NJ section (and about another 30 seconds of improvement if the RI-MA 150mph sections were also upgraded to 160mph). Thirty seconds is background noise in either the WAS-NYP or NYP-BOS schedules.

The actual value of the NJ work does not come from the speed increase. It comes from all the ancillary improvements to the electric traction system and the track, interlockings and signals. Those are major improvements, but they exist behind the scenes and it's hard to get the public excited about new substations (except maybe me). The speed improvement is nice from a PR perspective, but for this short a segment, is of little real value as transportation enhancement. Re-certifying trainsets to shave 30 seconds off a 165 minute trip is more for image than substance and seems like a waste of precious resources.

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Don't underestimate the marketing aspects of the increase. To both the public (take the 160 mph Acela!) and to the politicians, the political types & media honchos who take Amtrak between WAS and NYP. To sell the plan for the Next Gen HSR NEC with 220 mph speeds, it helps to show that Amtrak is increasing operating speeds on the current NEC.

The recently released revised NEC Vision plan calls for 4 additional 160 mph segments between Trenton and Baltimore by 2025 in the Stair Step 3 & 4 phases. Yes, the combined effect of 160 mph over 150 mph is small and the real speed improvements will come from the new tunnels, bridges, additional tracks, track & signal improvements and upgrades from 125/135 to 150/160, but 160 mph helps as a sales tool. If Amtrak can achieve the goal of a 2:12 WAS-NYP trip time by 2025 on the current NEC, the Acela replacement HSR train-sets will be selling a lot of tickets.

In addition to just certification, I understand there is some desire to study how far the MAS can be pushed without increasing track center distance. Amtrak and FRA have been having some discussions in that area too, since increasing track center is a hugely expensive proposition. I am not sure that the September tests have anything to do with the latter though. They have also been having discussions about allowing mixing of Tier II and Tier III rolling stock in areas that have control system in place to enforce positive separation of trains.

BTW, the detail plan document shows that at least one curve in the high speed section will be realigned to permit higher speed. it currently has a 130mph limit for Acelas. Of course complete reconstruction of Midway interlocking after first digging down to the base and rebuilding from there with improved drainage will also smooth out the travel across that interlocking and remove the perennial waterlogging and related damage in the substructure problems there too.

I don't believe that the test runs will be limited to the two miles of test CT catenary near Hamilton. Catenary issues for test runs can be handle by just setting catenary tension to optimum for the conditions on the day that the tests are run on the track on which it is run. The Metroliner tests at similar speeds were run using the then yet to be modified catenary. The catenary was actually modified following those tests based on a Volpe Center study, to make it mores stable at higher speeds. So it is kind of funny when people go on and on about how the catenary has not changed since it was installed by PRR.

Yes, in part it's a sales tool but more importantly, it's a milestone. During the X2000 and ICE testing (which ironically, is twenty years ago -- 1992, so this is a meaningful anniversary celebration) the then next generation Metroliners (that's the name that was used on X2000 brochures in explaining what was supposed to come down the road) were to operate greater than 150. When Acela's design issues flowered, that speed number was seen as the mark of a failure of design and not an accomplishment. Getting Acela to 160 is like getting a paraplegic to walk. The steps are small but more than just Madison Ave. ink, it is putting a man on the moon, a change in the collective soul and zeitgeist. And if the trainsets will hit that speed in NJ and Delaware, you can bet that Amtrak will (and should) do the same for RI and MA.

jis said:

In addition to just certification, I understand there is some desire to study how far the MAS can be pushed without increasing track center distance. Amtrak and FRA have been having some discussions in that area too, since increasing track center is a hugely expensive proposition. I am not sure that the September tests have anything to do with the latter though.

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What is the current track spacing between Trenton and New Brunswick (or Newark)?

jis said:

BTW, the detail plan document shows that at least one curve in the high speed section will be realigned to permit higher speed. it currently has a 130mph limit for Acelas. Of course complete reconstruction of Midway interlocking after first digging down to the base and rebuilding from there with improved drainage will also smooth out the travel across that interlocking and remove the perennial waterlogging and related damage in the substructure problems there too.

Click to expand...

Is there a publicly available detailed plan document on what Amtrak proposes to do for the $450 million grant? As for digging out Midway interlocking down to the base and rebuilding from there, that sounds rather difficult to do while keeping 2 or 3 of the 4 tracks open.

afigg said:

jis said:

In addition to just certification, I understand there is some desire to study how far the MAS can be pushed without increasing track center distance. Amtrak and FRA have been having some discussions in that area too, since increasing track center is a hugely expensive proposition. I am not sure that the September tests have anything to do with the latter though.

Click to expand...

What is the current track spacing between Trenton and New Brunswick (or Newark)?

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I don't know the exact number. At present FRA has decreed that to go faster than 160mph spacing has to be 15' or more, and the current spacing is much less than that. The joint study is to see if that can be stretched a bit I suppose, but again treat as hearsay.

jis said:

BTW, the detail plan document shows that at least one curve in the high speed section will be realigned to permit higher speed. it currently has a 130mph limit for Acelas. Of course complete reconstruction of Midway interlocking after first digging down to the base and rebuilding from there with improved drainage will also smooth out the travel across that interlocking and remove the perennial waterlogging and related damage in the substructure problems there too.

Click to expand...

Is there a publicly available detailed plan document on what Amtrak proposes to do for the $450 million grant? As for digging out Midway interlocking down to the base and rebuilding from there, that sounds rather difficult to do while keeping 2 or 3 of the 4 tracks open.

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The entire interlocking is going to be replaced by higher speed moving frog switches, just like they did at County. Digging down to the base just adds a little more effort. They are experts at doing such keeping the railroad running, taking one track out at a time.

I just have a paper copy of a slideset that was presented in Feb at TransAction. It has a pretty detailed diagram showing what is going to be done where. I'll see if I can scan it in and post it somewhere, but it will take a bit of time.