July Changes to Lake Shore and Capitol Limited Dining

[cpotisch]

That I don't know. Im also not sure if the viewliner diners even have a microwave.

As the_traveler has iterated many times, Amtrak doesn't microwave anything. They use convection ovens or a proper oven, but never a microwave.

 

[cpotisch]

But I think if Amtrak is planning on making changes to F&B on all the LD trains it needs to do something different on the longer trains. I think the longer trains where end to end customers have more meals need more choices.

Agreed. What works well enough on two relatively short single night routes likely can't be easily scaled to multiple night ultra long distance routes. As I iterated a while ago, I can't have the exact same breakfast and lunch/dinner four days in a row.

 

[cpotisch]

Is the term "Sleeper Lounge" something Amtrak is officially using or is it more just an unofficial term people are using to differentiate from the full-service diners? From what I've seen Amtrak still seems to refer to them as "dining cars" in official remarks about the new LSL/CL F&B service. I have seen the term "private dining car" used since it is no longer open to coach passengers. Just curious if its an official/unofficial thing.

They're officially using it. It shows up in all the press releases about the new system.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

That I don't know. Im also not sure if the viewliner diners even have a microwave.

As the_traveler has iterated many times, Amtrak doesn't microwave anything. They use convection ovens or a proper oven, but never a microwave.

Well since this is a new menu item within a new type of service I didn't want to make any claims.

I know you were referring to the diner but "Amtrak doesn't microwave anything" is not true, they do use microwaves in the cafe car.

 

[neroden]

For those with reactive allergies, it could be life or death.

For me, death is unlikely, but being violently ill for three weeks is a likely consequence of allergen consumption.
The lack of ingredients lists is flat-out unacceptable.

 

[TinCan782]

For those with reactive allergies, it could be life or death.

For me, death is unlikely, but being violently ill for three weeks is a likely consequence of allergen consumption.
The lack of ingredients lists is flat-out unacceptable.

Some allergens are listed but not a complete ingredient list...

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/lp.do?sk=310327471DC2AF37072079B3DCBD67BF19BB691FE7E1694E&EV=2

 

[pennyk]

For those with reactive allergies, it could be life or death.

For me, death is unlikely, but being violently ill for three weeks is a likely consequence of allergen consumption.
The lack of ingredients lists is flat-out unacceptable.

Inside each box is a list of ingredients. I have food allergies and was able to read prior to consuming.

 

[cpotisch]

That I don't know. Im also not sure if the viewliner diners even have a microwave.

As the_traveler has iterated many times, Amtrak doesn't microwave anything. They use convection ovens or a proper oven, but never a microwave.

Well since this is a new menu item within a new type of service I didn't want to make any claims.

I know you were referring to the diner but "Amtrak doesn't microwave anything" is not true, they do use microwaves in the cafe car.

Maybe I should have clarified that I was referring to diners, but since you just admitted that's the case, why are you bothering to correct me?

 

[jis]

That I don't know. Im also not sure if the viewliner diners even have a microwave.

As the_traveler has iterated many times, Amtrak doesn't microwave anything. They use convection ovens or a proper oven, but never a microwave.

Well since this is a new menu item within a new type of service I didn't want to make any claims.

I know you were referring to the diner but "Amtrak doesn't microwave anything" is not true, they do use microwaves in the cafe car.

Maybe I should have clarified that I was referring to diners, but since you just admitted that's the case, why are you bothering to correct me?

You know? You really ought to grow a thicker skin.

Are you going to weep and moan each time someone picks on a detail in your postings?

 

[Skyline]

For those with reactive allergies, it could be life or death.

For me, death is unlikely, but being violently ill for three weeks is a likely consequence of allergen consumption.
The lack of ingredients lists is flat-out unacceptable.

Inside each box is a list of ingredients. I have food allergies and was able to read prior to consuming.

I imagine a lot of people would not read that list of ingredients until it was too late. But even if they did read it, are there alternatives available from Amtrak (AraMark?) that won't hurt them?

It would be better if pax could easily obtain the list ahead of travel and filter out what they cannot or should not eat. Of course, again, there needs to be alternatives available.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Made a day trip to Temple today on #22/#21.

The Crew told me that the Chicago Base employees are convinced that Fresh and Contemporary Dining will be coming to the Texas Eagle and City of New Orleans by Fall.

Today's Eagles were Full, with No Slots for Dinner in the Diner for Coach Passengers!

They also told me that #21/421 is leaving Chicago short of items listed on the Menu.

Prices for Sleepers and Rail Fare are mostly High Bucket on most Eagles!

 

[cpotisch]

Made a day trip to Temple today on #22/#21.

The Crew told me that the Chicago Base employees are convinced that Fresh and Contemporary Dining will be coming to the Texas Eagle and City of New Orleans by Fall.

Today's Eagles were Full, with No Slots for Dinner in the Diner for Coach Padsengers!

They also told me that #21/421 is leaving Chicago short of items listed on the Menu.

Prices for Sleepers and Rail Fare are mostly High Bucket on most Eagles!

This is really getting sad. Even if it's not confirmed yet, I'm gonna be pretty surprised if the Eagle has full dining service for much longer. It really is becoming harder and harder to justify any long distance Amtrak trip anymore.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

That will be a win for the city of New Orleans though.

 

[MikeM]

Made a day trip to Temple today on #22/#21.

The Crew told me that the Chicago Base employees are convinced that Fresh and Contemporary Dining will be coming to the Texas Eagle and City of New Orleans by Fall.

Today's Eagles were Full, with No Slots for Dinner in the Diner for Coach Padsengers!

They also told me that #21/421 is leaving Chicago short of items listed on the Menu.

Prices for Sleepers and Rail Fare are mostly High Bucket on most Eagles!

This is really getting sad. Even if it's not confirmed, I'd be pretty surprised if the Eagle keeps full dining service for much longer. It's becoming harder and harder to justify any long distance Amtrak trip anymore.

What makes me sad is that, in my past couple of trips on the Eagle, I've found the diner to be very well run. Even though they're operating a cross-country cafe car, the crews put out good consistent meals, the staff is attentive, and the food quality pretty good all things considered. For me, the diner is the highlight of the trip in that it gets you visiting with random others on the train, and you get interesting perspectives. It makes me sad to think that in the future, what we are going to be doing is eating random convenience food from a box in an empty diner, with little variety.

The real question I ask now is how long will this "diner / sleeper lounge" program last? At what point does Amtrak management decide that they don't "need" diners, so everything comes from the lounge car.

I was reading an older article the other night in the UP Historical Society magazine about diner operations on the UP in the final years of passenger service. One thing that struck me was how they kept innovating to offer diner service to ALL passengers on the train, at all price points. Use of simpler entrees, luncheon cars that had stool seating (think Waffle Hut on rails...) that could operate with fewer employees and a smaller kitchen, etc. I think there is an arguement to be made that Amtrak should be working to generate more diner business, including coach passengers, by utilizing every table in the car, maybe split half/half between sleeper and coach passengers, and offer some inexpensive dining options for those on a budget.

I did go ahead and cancel my trip on the Eagle in late September after reading here and elsewhere about the impending change, which appears imminent in early September. My biggest hope is that the current administration at Amtrak sees the support that passenger rail has in congress (thinking about the push on the Southwest Chief funds) and that a drop in passenger counts drives some realization that this isn't the way to go. In the meantime, I just don't want to deal with it. I can manage around older cars, iffy HVAC, and inconvenient stations, but this is a bridge too far for me.

 

[cpotisch]

That will be a win for the city of New Orleans though.

In some respects, yes. But not in every way. Now coach passengers won't be able to dine, and at least at this point, there will still be the issue of such limited menu options. However I'm more concerned about this becoming the standard for LD trains, rather than the CONO itself getting the treatment. And for the TE, it 100% will be a big step down, since that offers significantly better meal service than even the LSL did before it get all contemporary.

 

[cpotisch]

Even though they're operating a cross-country cafe car, the crews put out good consistent meals, the staff is attentive, and the food quality pretty good all things considered.

Something a lot of people often forget is that the CCC has the exact same kitchen and cooking facilities as the standard Superliner diners. It's got a new interior set up to serve as both a diner and cafe, but there aren't any differences under the hood.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Yes exactly, the CCC design is actually a pretty smart design in my opinion for a railroad with a limited supply of rolling stock. The CCC cars can easily function as a full diner, a full cafe lounge, or a lounge.

May be worth pointing out that the "Cross Country Cafe" was the "fresh choices" of 10 or so years ago. It eliminated staff members by combining the diner and the lounge service into one car. It was begun as a "test" on the 2 trains, the city and the Texas Eagle. That test lasted about 6 months? And then they switched the cars back to regular full service diners when the test didn't go as planned.

 

[cpotisch]

Yes exactly, the CCC design is actually a pretty smart design in my opinion for a railroad with a limited supply of rolling stock. The CCC cars can easily function as a full diner, a full cafe lounge, or a lounge.

Not really. An SSL has a full upper level of panoramic windows and a downstairs cafe. A standard Superliner diner has 18 four person tables on the upper-level. When the CCC is used as both, it replaces all of that with 10 tables in the dining car section, and six tables and booths for the cafe section, all with normal size windows. So I do not think it can replace a dining car and an SSL, since it doesn't have nearly enough capacity or a proper layout to serve that role.

 

[cpotisch]

Thanks for posting this, we need more as these actual reports from the road (as opposed to speculation, or I heard from the friend of my cousin.....).

The consistent issue that is being reported lately is poor stocking of those trains that still offer traditional dining car service.

Some items are being reported as short stocked, and others not available at all.

Ken

Maybe they're just trying to bomb proper meal service so that they can justify more "fresh choices."

 

[PVD]

It is not uncommon to see the CCC car used as the diner, with an SSL still in the consist. At times I have seen the cafe open in the CCC with downstairs closed in the SSL, and also the other way around with the downstairs in use.

 

[cpotisch]

It is not uncommon to see the CCC car used as the diner, with an SSL still in the consist. At times I have seen the cafe open in the CCC with downstairs closed in the SSL, and also the other way around with the downstairs in use.

It's not just not uncommon for a CCC to serve alongside an SSL, but it's actually been exclusively that way for several years. When they had first introduced the CCCs, they replaced the SSL with it, but when that was found to be absolutely disastrous, they brought back the proper lounge car. If I recall correctly, snacks are typically served in the SSL on the CONO and Texas Eagle, whereas on the Capitol, the SSL is usually unmanned and snacks are purchased in the CCC.

 

[jis]

Stocking problem is no0t something that suddenly appeared over the last six months. It has been an ongoing problem for at least the last five years if not more.

 

[cpotisch]

Stocking problem is no0t something that suddenly appeared over the last six months. It has been an ongoing problem for at least the last five years if not more.

Though the premise is nothing new, it sounds like it's been getting worse recently. I've seen a lot more trip reports of late where the diner hadn't been stocked and multiple items were gone only a short way into the trip, so it just seems like it's become more of an issue in the past couple months. Just the sense I get.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The last few times I've been on the city, the CCC served as both diner and cafe with the lower level of the ssl closed.

 

[Bob Dylan]

cpotisch is correct. In addition CCCs sometimes replace the SSL, so you have 2 in a consist, which sucks!

Even worse is to just have 1 that serves as the Diner and Lounge as the original plan intended, which sucks even more!