July Changes to Lake Shore and Capitol Limited Dining

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No, I'm thinking of college. We were fearless in those days
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Devil's Advocate said:
Nobody drinks Bacardi Superior neat unless it's part of a dare or suicide pact.

Perhaps you're thinking of Limon or Anejo?
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While the Boars Head branding and menu are still present in the cafe car, yesterday's 449 was stocked with Fresh Direct (I think it was) products, or at least the chicken wrap and breakfast sandwich I ate were. They were both pretty good. I appreciated that the breakfast sandwich was made with a single egg instead of a blended egg patty.

Incidentally, the business class soft product includes one free alcoholic drink, unlimited soft drinks, and an amenity kit with a blanket, neck pillow, eye mask, and earplugs. It seems to be popular, sold out leaving Albany and still mostly full when I left in Toledo.
 
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cpotisch said:
Holy crap. It’s not even close. The short rib has 91 grams of fat. That’s 140% of your daily recommended intake. Dear god.
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It's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The traditional meal facts are for the entree only. The new meal data is for the entire dinner: including roll, butter, salad, salad dressing, and dessert.
 
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PRR 60 said:
cpotisch said:
Holy crap. It’s not even close. The short rib has 91 grams of fat. That’s 140% of your daily recommended intake. Dear god.
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It's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The traditional meal facts are for the entree only. The new meal data is for the entire dinner: including roll, butter, salad, salad dressing, and dessert.
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Plus everything in moderation. It's ok to eat "bad" foods as long as it not a mainstay in your diet.
 
Dakota 400 said:
railiner said:
The more you drink, the less you will care about the difference between the "good stuff" and "the rest"...
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LOL! May I add what I hope others will see as a bit of humor as a follow-up to this post?

During an Alaskan cruise, a whale was spotted near the ship during Happy Hour. Everyone rushed to the windows with the hope of seeing the whale. Most of us were disappointed. Then, a Lounge Steward said in a very loud voice,"The more you drink, the more whales you'll see!"
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Makes me wonder if there actually was a whale in the first place...
 
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Maverickstation said:
jis said:
It tastes very nice though [emoji57].

There is very little that is not a nutritional disaster in the Amtrak offerings involving meats even in the Diner anyway.
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Actually no, the Flat Iron steak served on the trains with a full diner winds up looking like health food compared to the Short Rib from dietary hell.

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-31.pdf
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Which is generally true when typical short ribs served in restaurants are compared with grilled steak. Neither are health food but one is considerably worse than the other.
It would be nice of course if there were more choices in the menu.
 
jis said:
It tastes very nice though [emoji57].

There is very little that is not a nutritional disaster in the Amtrak offerings involving meats even in the Diner anyway.
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Yes, but part of the whole song-and-dance with this mess was that the options would be at least marginally healthier than before.

The steak isn't bad and the salmon is really only bad in terms of cholesterol (which seems to be the bane of these meals in general...anyone got an idea as to why that's such an issue?).
 
Anderson said:
jis said:
It tastes very nice though [emoji57].

There is very little that is not a nutritional disaster in the Amtrak offerings involving meats even in the Diner anyway.
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Yes, but part of the whole song-and-dance with this mess was that the options would be at least marginally healthier than before.

The steak isn't bad and the salmon is really only bad in terms of cholesterol (which seems to be the bane of these meals in general...anyone got an idea as to why that's such an issue?).
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Is it? I though it was mostly about fresher. I think there is no getting past the fact that Americans just do not like healthier food in general, and menu in a train Diner (a mode of transportation which is not exactly popular to start with) is hardly the way to fix that.

I bet the Shot Ribs itself is not much different whether it is served in a box, on a plate or in a restaurant. When freshly prepared there is more control on the details of how much cooked it is etc. but not too much on the nutrition levels as it would appear (unless one goes out of ones way to make it worse). The darn thing is just fattier than lean steak.

I had it, and it was delicious. The salad was fresher than anything I have had in the Diner in a long time. See PRR's note above on why there is more of everything in the listed nutritional data for the boxes than for the stuff on the Diner menu.
 
jis said:
I think there is no getting past the fact that Americans just do not like healthier food in general, and menu in a train Diner (a mode of transportation which is not exactly popular to start with) is hardly the way to fix that.
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It's not about "fixing" America's death wish diet. It's about giving those passengers who want to eat healthier a practical option for doing so. Other than the Silver Star every revenue sleeper passenger is already paying for a meal and there should be at least a few hot options that appeal to healthy people as well. Is that really too much to ask? Nobody expects Amtrak to fix a society so ignorant about nutrition that it includes sugar and fat on its food pyramid and considers a heart attack to be a "wakeup call" rather than near death experience caused by a lifetime of willful ignorance.

AmtrakBlue said:
PRR 60 said:
cpotisch said:
Holy crap. It’s not even close. The short rib has 91 grams of fat. That’s 140% of your daily recommended intake. Dear god.
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It's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The traditional meal facts are for the entree only. The new meal data is for the entire dinner: including roll, butter, salad, salad dressing, and dessert.
Click to expand...
Plus everything in moderation. It's ok to eat "bad" foods as long as it not a mainstay in your diet.
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The problem is that unhealthy foods remain the "mainstay" of Amtrak dining. Healthy eating on today's Amtrak is a lot like fasting. Which might be fine if Amtrak discounted tickets for passengers who decline the meal plan and if Amtrak stations had some genuine variety. But they don't so in my view it's on Amtrak to provide those options. If they want healthier folks to "book the cook" 24 hours before departure that would be a reasonable compromise in my opinion.
 
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Hey, I was against including meals in absurdly increased fares when it was introduced in the '90s and have never changed my mind about it. So as far as I am concerned you are singing to the choir here. IMHO Amtrak should discontinue including food in fares and simply revert back to how things were before they introduced this in the '90s. While at it, they could also revert back to offering welcome wine (or non-alcoholic) and cheese upon boarding in Sleeper, and such other minor niceties, and offering reasonable quality food that people would actually want to buy. They could offer and hospitality package for sale which includes all food to those that wish to partake of such.

The current scheme of including food only encourages the likes of me to blow my daily calorie quota unless I am darned careful, and forces me to pay a higher fare for stuff I will never use.
 
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I wouldn't mind a Silver Star approach to all the LD trains. Upgrade the cafe menus and it would work well, while giving the passengers the choice of what they want to do.
 
jis said:
Hey, I was against including meals in absurdly increased fares when it was introduced in the '90s and have never changed my mind about it. So as far as I am concerned you are singing to the choir here. IMHO Amtrak should discontinue including food in fares and simply revert back to how things were before they introduced this in the '90s. While at it, they could also revert back to offering welcome wine (or non-alcoholic) and cheese upon boarding in Sleeper, and such other minor niceties, and offering reasonable quality food that people would actually want to buy. They could offer and hospitality package for sale which includes all food to those that wish to partake of such.

The current scheme of including food only encourages the likes of me to blow my daily calorie quota unless I am darned careful, and forces me to pay a higher fare for stuff I will never use.
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I completely agree. Given that meals were 'included' in the sleeper prices was merely a financial 'trick' to show X amount of dollars as income in the diner to offset the cost of having the diner there in the first place. Put another way, the old way of sleeper passengers pay for their meals be it in the diner or lounge makes sense to me. There have been times I wasn't really hungry for a full meal, so I got a pizza and a Coke in the lounge car, effectively pricing my lounge car meal at $30-35 when the included meal cost is part of what I paid up front.

It would be interesting to see if Amtrak could go back to the 'old way'. For starters, it would force Amtrak to put point-of-sale screens in the diner and the wait staff use touch screens to enter what was ordered, etc...just like they do in most TGI Fridays and other casual restaurants. That would greatly simplify the end-of-the-run inventory taking and cash handling. It would also eliminate what happened to me a couple months ago and others as well. I ordered a steak, but it came as the surf & turf, which I presume the waiter marked on the meal order form I signed. Perhaps they had too many 'surf's and had to get rid of them. I'm not sure what the extra 'surf' expense does to the diner finances nor sleeper finances. I'll let the bean counters figure it out. But, if it was the 'old' way and I'd be presented with a computer printed & itemized list of what was to pay for, if a 'surf' got added in, I'd refuse to pay the price differential.

On the other hand, going to an all cash/debit/credit system will increase the likelihood of increased cash shortages and perhaps compromised credit card numbers. But then, that's no different than the casual dining restaurants do today.

Bottom line, moving the cost of meals back to the diner and out of the sleeper prices will most accurately reflect the economics of running the diner. And if I was a real cheapskate, I'd bring a couple sandwiches along instead of paying $12 for breakfast, etc. Unfortunately, as has been known since the creation of dining cars, they lose money. And as a loser, the Washington bean counters would say 'it has to go'. And that's where we are on the Lake Shore Ltd and Capitol Ltd today.

Unfortunately, as Amtrak learned the hard way 30 years ago when they downgraded the diners to horrible food served on paper plates with cheap plastic eating utensils, patronage on each of the LD trains dropped significantly. Obviously, by ignoring history, Amtrak management and Congress are doomed to repeat it.
 
I returned home on 48 today, and experienced the boxed meals for the first time. I would characterize it as one step forwards and one backwards. The breakfast was adequate. The fruit was properly fresh and crisp, the yogurt parfait was, well, nothing to object about, and the blueberry muffin was decent for a mass produced one. Huge, though. I think everyone is familiar with the idea of a granola bar, and I didn't eat it in any case. I was not left wanting more food, although I had had a large dinner the night before.

At apparent risk to life and health, I had the short ribs for lunch, which I thought were quite good. Much better than the reheated beef I had on the Cardinal a year or so ago, which was memorable mostly for being dry. This was much more moist and not (outwardly, anyway) excessively salty. The polenta and beans were equivalent to the diner's typical potatoes and beans, although I suppose there is less chance of getting the flaky instant potatoes that were occasionally found in the diner. The salad was properly crisp and fresh, although the tomatoes were smaller than the ones in the diner garden salad. It would have been nice if the roll had been heated. It is difficult to butter a cold roll with a cold pat of butter. The cheesecake was better than the recent one they had with blended fruit, although I do prefer fresh fruit or fruit sauce. This one was not too sweet, which is a common downfall of mass market cheesecake.

It is ironic that the breakfast is now the weaker meal in my opinion, when I always preferred it to lunch/dinner in the diner. Now it is the other way around. I don't at all understand why it was felt that for some reason it was worth offering choices for lunch and dinner but not for breakfast. Hopefully the rumored hot option appears (and is added, rather than replaces). I gathered that the whole process is still to some extent a work in progress, and among other things Amtrak's traditional inability to properly stock food is still very much the case, as the attendant said that she was out of the vegan wraps when I walked in, not particularly late, for lunch.

I also thought it was amusing that the box says it is a "sustainable option" and touts the salvaged/recycled materials, and then you open it and have individual plastic packaging on everything with single use napkins, etc. There were an awful lot of green boxes in trash bags on the platform in Albany.

If anyone is keeping track, the diner on 48 (22) was Jackson.
 
Look a few posts up...

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I had the short ribs for lunch, which I thought were quite good. Much better than the reheated beef I had on the Cardinal a year or so ago, which was memorable mostly for being dry. This was much more moist and not (outwardly, anyway) excessively salty. The polenta and beans were equivalent to the diner's typical potatoes and beans, although I suppose there is less chance of getting the flaky instant potatoes that were occasionally found in the diner. The salad was properly crisp and fresh, although the tomatoes were smaller than the ones in the diner garden salad. It would have been nice if the roll had been heated. It is difficult to butter a cold roll with a cold pat of butter. The cheesecake was better than the recent one they had with blended fruit, although I do prefer fresh fruit or fruit sauce. This one was not too sweet, which is a common downfall of mass market cheesecake."
 

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