Amtrak stations, best and worst

[afigg]

In Charlotte, the streetcar (CityLynx Gold Line) will be running between the Lynx Blue Line station and the new Amtrak station location.

Years before the new Amtrak station actually gets built. The streetcar extension is funded and under construction, unlike the Amtrak station.

Well, that's the theory. Phase II of the Gold line (which passes by the future Amtrak site) is supposed to be in operation by August 2020. It's funded and a contract has been signed, but construction hasn't actually started yet. My guess is that they won't make the schedule -- but with no progress in sight on the Amtrak station, your point is well taken.

NC DOT received a $25 million TIGER grant for the Charlotte Gateway station. So the state has a pot of federal funding to combine with state funds towards building the new station. A quick search turned up a city website for the Gateway station project and a link to a November, 2016 21 page public presentation for the proposed design of the new station.

The schedule in the November, 2016 presentation projects building track and signal infrastructure as phase 1 from 2018-2021 and TBD for building the station and transportation connections as phase 2. If the street car line is completed by late 2020, the Gateway project will likely be built out sometime after that. What concerns me about the viewgraphs is the emphasis on building an "iconic" station and on retail & civic use. That's all fine in principle, but the politicians and all the various public committees can lose sight of the goal of building a train station which is easy for people to access and transfer (with luggage in tow) between the trains and local transit options.

 

[afigg]

INDIANAPOLIS IN is the WORST Amtrak station.

Paired with Greyhound it is open 24/7. Given the absence of social services in IN (thank you Hoosiers + Mike Pence) it is a major facility for the homeless and destitute who camp out there, occupy all the seats, sleep on the floor, over-utilize the facilities and park their possessions wherever. There is no place to sit while you wait for a train, and to access the tracks you have to step over people sleeping on the floor.

Nice one Amtrak.

Does Amtrak own the station and all of that is something Amtrak has any control over??

Or is it like most stations Amtrak trains stop at, and the station is owned by another entity.

Easy enough to look up the ownership of the station, platforms, and any parking facilities at the Great American Stations website. Page for the IND station shows that the City of Indianapolis owns the station and platforms. The picture on the website for IND of the "station" showing the van and Greyhound may tell one all they really need to know about the IND station.

 

[John Bobinyec]

In Charlotte, the streetcar (CityLynx Gold Line) will be running between the Lynx Blue Line station and the new Amtrak station location.

Years before the new Amtrak station actually gets built. The streetcar extension is funded and under construction, unlike the Amtrak station.

Well, that's the theory. Phase II of the Gold line (which passes by the future Amtrak site) is supposed to be in operation by August 2020. It's funded and a contract has been signed, but construction hasn't actually started yet. My guess is that they won't make the schedule -- but with no progress in sight on the Amtrak station, your point is well taken.

NC DOT received a $25 million TIGER grant for the Charlotte Gateway station. So the state has a pot of federal funding to combine with state funds towards building the new station. A quick search turned up a city website for the Gateway station project and a link to a November, 2016 21 page public presentation for the proposed design of the new station.

The schedule in the November, 2016 presentation projects building track and signal infrastructure as phase 1 from 2018-2021 and TBD for building the station and transportation connections as phase 2. If the street car line is completed by late 2020, the Gateway project will likely be built out sometime after that. What concerns me about the viewgraphs is the emphasis on building an "iconic" station and on retail & civic use. That's all fine in principle, but the politicians and all the various public committees can lose sight of the goal of building a train station which is easy for people to access and transfer (with luggage in tow) between the trains and local transit options.

Unless I'm mistaken, the money for the Charlotte station was diverted to either double tracking projects now underway or to the Raleigh station.

The problem that precipitated the diversion of funds was the question of what to do with the NS-CSX crossing south of the Amtrak station. The original, super expensive, proposal was to depress the CSX in a trench so that it ran underneath the NS. Besides the expense factor, I don't think CSX was too happy with taking that line out of service for an extended period of time. So back to the drawing board that project went. In the meantime, the TIGER funds had expiration dates, so the money was diverted to ongoing projects.

jb

jb

 

[afigg]

NC DOT received a $25 million TIGER grant for the Charlotte Gateway station. So the state has a pot of federal funding to combine with state funds towards building the new station. A quick search turned up a city website for the Gateway station project and a link to a November, 2016 21 page public presentation for the proposed design of the new station.

Unless I'm mistaken, the money for the Charlotte station was diverted to either double tracking projects now underway or to the Raleigh station.
The problem that precipitated the diversion of funds was the question of what to do with the NS-CSX crossing south of the Amtrak station. The original, super expensive, proposal was to depress the CSX in a trench so that it ran underneath the NS. Besides the expense factor, I don't think CSX was too happy with taking that line out of service for an extended period of time. So back to the drawing board that project went. In the meantime, the TIGER funds had expiration dates, so the money was diverted to ongoing projects.

jb

You are thinking of the 2010 ARRA grants which were reallocated and shuffled around. The $25 million is from a FY2015 TIGER grant award which is specifically for the Charlotte Gateway station. Whether the $25 million is enough to get NC and the city to stay on course to building the new station with matching state and local funds, we will find out over the next several years.

 

[alang]

Best stations I have been to include:

1. Glenwood Springs, CO ...we love the view.

2. Grand Junction, CO ...we always have Ice Cream!

3. Union Station, Denver, CO ...the renovation was worth the wait and the Amshack across the street.

Same route but still each one a great stop and station.

 

[west point]

The CSX-NS grade crossing in Charlotte may be a moot problem with CSX diverting most traffic away with the downgrading of the Clinchfield subdivision ?

 

[seat38a]

My vote for the best would be LA Union Station. Its a station with a Metropolitan Lounge, places to eat inside the station, a BAR!!!, and the best of all, NO KINDERGARTEN walk boarding process. Plus the easy connection to the ever expanding Metro Rail system plus Metrolink trains without having to leave the main station building. Once the regional connector comes on line, one will only have to walk to track 1 and catch the whatever new letter designation they are going to give the trains to Santa Monica without having to do the Red/Purple to 7th and Metro. San Diego only makes number 2 due to the line up outside boarding process they have for all Amtrak trains.

 

[neroden]

The problem that precipitated the diversion of funds was the question of what to do with the NS-CSX crossing south of the Amtrak station. The original, super expensive, proposal was to depress the CSX in a trench so that it ran underneath the NS. Besides the expense factor, I don't think CSX was too happy with taking that line out of service for an extended period of time. So back to the drawing board that project went. In the meantime, the TIGER funds had expiration dates, so the money was diverted to ongoing projects.

Nah, CSX was happy to get a grade separation for free. The problem was the Archer Daniels Midland mill which is located *right in the middle of the crossing*. The original plan was to move it, but according to public documents, ADM absolutely refused to move, flat out refused, and threatened to fight any eminent domain proceedings. There seems to be no way to do a grade separation while retaining all existing rail service to ADM. They were trying to come up with one, but time ran out for the ARRA money while they were trying.
The problem is not as bad as it used to be because traffic has declined substantially on the CSX line since the original plans were made, so it may be possible to do nothing and leave the grade crossing. I believe this is the new plan.

 

[xyzzy]

NC DOT received a $25 million TIGER grant for the Charlotte Gateway station. So the state has a pot of federal funding to combine with state funds towards building the new station. A quick search turned up a city website for the Gateway station project and a link to a November, 2016 21 page public presentation for the proposed design of the new station.

The schedule in the November, 2016 presentation projects building track and signal infrastructure as phase 1 from 2018-2021 and TBD for building the station and transportation connections as phase 2...

Flashy charts, but the truth of the matter is that they still don't know where construction funding will come from. No private developer has stepped up. Project cost is likely to be in the $100-200 million range. Charlotte's budget is stressed by the LYNX construction, NCDOT doesn't have the money, and $25M from TIGER is nowhere near enough. My guess is 2025-2030 before it opens. And if John Bobinyec is prophetic that an additional station will be built for access to the northeast extension of the LYNX Blue line -- sounds to me like frustration on the part of NCDOT -- the impetus for the Gateway station could be undercut.

 

[John Bobinyec]

NC DOT received a $25 million TIGER grant for the Charlotte Gateway station. So the state has a pot of federal funding to combine with state funds towards building the new station. A quick search turned up a city website for the Gateway station project and a link to a November, 2016 21 page public presentation for the proposed design of the new station.

The schedule in the November, 2016 presentation projects building track and signal infrastructure as phase 1 from 2018-2021 and TBD for building the station and transportation connections as phase 2...

Flashy charts, but the truth of the matter is that they still don't know where construction funding will come from. No private developer has stepped up. Project cost is likely to be in the $100-200 million range. Charlotte's budget is stressed by the LYNX construction, NCDOT doesn't have the money, and $25M from TIGER is nowhere near enough. My guess is 2025-2030 before it opens. And if John Bobinyec is prophetic that an additional station will be built for access to the northeast extension of the LYNX Blue line -- sounds to me like frustration on the part of NCDOT -- the impetus for the Gateway station could be undercut.

I don't think anyone is talking about a new station up at the university Lynx stop - probably just a platform.

jb

 

[Uncle Dick]

Based on my limited experience...

Best:

1) LAUS (LAX) - for all the reasons already mentioned

2) Flagstaff (FLG) - Great location right in the middle of a lively downtown. SWC arrival/departure times are pretty good for weekend trips to and from LA.

3) Bakersfield (BFD) - A bit of a dark horse, but the station building is modern and spacious and conveniently located next to the convention center. Hassle-free bus transfers. Food is nearby but could be closer.

Worst:

1) Stockton (SKN) - Located deep in the ghetto. Bus transfer point is too close to platform, resulting in overcrowding and confusion. Security bars everywhere ruin an otherwise aesthetically pleasing historic station.

2) Williams Junction (WMJ) - Terrible location for the historic rail gateway to the Grand Canyon. Should be co-located with the Grand Canyon Railway (although I understand why this can't happen).

 

[Manny T]

INDIANAPOLIS IN is the WORST Amtrak station.

Paired with Greyhound it is open 24/7. Given the absence of social services in IN (thank you Hoosiers + Mike Pence) it is a major facility for the homeless and destitute who camp out there, occupy all the seats, sleep on the floor, over-utilize the facilities and park their possessions wherever. There is no place to sit while you wait for a train, and to access the tracks you have to step over people sleeping on the floor.

Nice one Amtrak.

Does Amtrak own the station and all of that is something Amtrak has any control over??

Or is it like most stations Amtrak trains stop at, and the station is owned by another entity.

Easy enough to look up the ownership of the station, platforms, and any parking facilities at the Great American Stations website. Page for the IND station shows that the City of Indianapolis owns the station and platforms. The picture on the website for IND of the "station" showing the van and Greyhound may tell one all they really need to know about the IND station.

Thank you KmH and afigg for your posts. Imo lack of ownership doesn't absolve Amtrak of responsibility. As lessee of the facilities, Amtrak must have some say in its operation and state of maintenance and could certainly make itself heard on the issues of passenger comfort, safety and convenience--if it wanted to. Even if it means creating a separate waiting area for Amtrak ticketed passengers only, Amtrak could improve the experience for its PAX who are forced to use this sub-standard facility.

 

[railiner]

Peachtree Station in Atlanta was built circa 1910 as a convenience stop for residents on the northern fringe of civilization at the time. It was never meant to replace Terminal Station downtown, but that's exactly what happened in 1970.

Amazing that this station is sufficient for rail traffic when Atlanta's Airport is one of the busiest in the world with over 100 Million passengers a year.

My mind goes to European airports, like Fiumicino and Schiphol as well as both Narita and Haneda in Japan that have major rail terminals attached to the airport. The only two I can think of in the US are BWI and EWR. Several are connected to light metro rail systems but very few have Amtrak or commuter terminals.

How about the Philadelphia airport?Not Amtrak, but SEPTA's regional rail station is right in the terminal--no need for a connecting shuttle or light rail ride like Baltimore and Newark require...

 

[Don Newcomb]

How about the Philadelphia airport?

Not Amtrak, but SEPTA's regional rail station is right in the terminal--no need for a connecting shuttle or light rail ride like Baltimore and Newark require...

I've never flown through Philadelphia and was not aware of the rail station.

I'd suppose there could be four classes:

1) Amtrak station at airport. (e.g. BWI)

2) Commuter rail at airport. (Philly)

3) Metro light rail connection at airport (e.g. JFK, DCA)

4) No rail at airport. (e.g. MSY. IAD)

 

[xyzzy]

I don't think anyone is talking about a new station up at the university Lynx stop - probably just a platform.

I wonder if NCDOT stored the shed and later the temporary station that it used in Durham.

 

[BCL]

INDIANAPOLIS IN is the WORST Amtrak station.

Paired with Greyhound it is open 24/7. Given the absence of social services in IN (thank you Hoosiers + Mike Pence) it is a major facility for the homeless and destitute who camp out there, occupy all the seats, sleep on the floor, over-utilize the facilities and park their possessions wherever. There is no place to sit while you wait for a train, and to access the tracks you have to step over people sleeping on the floor.

Nice one Amtrak.

Does Amtrak own the station and all of that is something Amtrak has any control over??
Or is it like most stations Amtrak trains stop at, and the station is owned by another entity.

Easy enough to look up the ownership of the station, platforms, and any parking facilities at the Great American Stations website. Page for the IND station shows that the City of Indianapolis owns the station and platforms. The picture on the website for IND of the "station" showing the van and Greyhound may tell one all they really need to know about the IND station.

Thank you KmH and afigg for your posts. Imo lack of ownership doesn't absolve Amtrak of responsibility. As lessee of the facilities, Amtrak must have some say in its operation and state of maintenance and could certainly make itself heard on the issues of passenger comfort, safety and convenience--if it wanted to. Even if it means creating a separate waiting area for Amtrak ticketed passengers only, Amtrak could improve the experience for its PAX who are forced to use this sub-standard facility.

I wouldn't call Amtrak a lessee. As far as I understand it, Amtrak doesn't pay to use stations that it doesn't own. They can make all the requests to a station owner they want, but what leverage do they truly have with an entity that may consider it a low priority?

About the only thing I think Amtrak might be able to do is provide Amtrak Police.

 

[AlamoWye]

Maybe not the worst, but the Austin, Texas station is so hidden that unless you take Amtrak or own one of the super-expensive condos nearby, it is invisible. Most people in Austin would be hard-pressed to tell you where in the world it is, even though it is almost downtown.

And even though it has good parking, no bus connections are nearby so you must call a taxi or a friend (no Uber in Austin).

 

[Joeker]

What no mention of Buffalo NY as the worst Amtrak station?

Its dark dingy under a highway with the a leaky roof and no amenities.

 

[Manny T]

BCL, it seems unlikely to me that Amtrak would not pay rent to occupy and utilize space in Union Station in Indy. The station is owned by the city and managed by Browning Investments. A recent article on the status of the station reported the rental situation this way:

"In the ensuing years, the structure, still owned by the city but managed by Indy mainstay Browning Investments, has filled up with a grab bag of tenants. The Greyhound bus terminal. Amtrak. Offices for groups ranging from Music for All to the Japan-America Society. “It’s pretty much all rented,” says Browning property manager Kristy Carter. “We have only a small vacancy.”

You can read the report at http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/city-buzz/who-killed-union-station/with the title Who Killed Union Station?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Alamo Wye: you are correct about the Austin Station (UP owned) being "Hidden" and hard to get to/from.

But since Lyft and Uber left in a snit after losing the referendum here,there are now Six so called "Ride Share" companies operating along with Four Taxi Companies.

Taxis do meet the two Daily Eagles and are easy to call, as are the Ride Share Companies.

Capitol Metro, our Bus and Commuter Rail Operator ( the Red Line) is a joke, it's poorly run, a money pit and very under used due to inconvienent routes and schedules.

 

[MARC Rider]

How about the Philadelphia airport?

Not Amtrak, but SEPTA's regional rail station is right in the terminal--no need for a connecting shuttle or light rail ride like Baltimore and Newark require...

I've never flown through Philadelphia and was not aware of the rail station.

I'd suppose there could be four classes:

1) Amtrak station at airport. (e.g. BWI)

2) Commuter rail at airport. (Philly)

3) Metro light rail connection at airport (e.g. JFK, DCA)

4) No rail at airport. (e.g. MSY. IAD)

The BWI Amtrak station is not at the airport, it's a 10 minute shuttle bus ride. If you want to pick up a rental car, you have to ride the shuttle bus to the airport terminal, and then ride another shuttle bus to the rental car center, even though the rental car center is fairly close to the train station.

 

[BCL]

BCL, it seems unlikely to me that Amtrak would not pay rent to occupy and utilize space in Union Station in Indy. The station is owned by the city and managed by Browning Investments. A recent article on the status of the station reported the rental situation this way:

"In the ensuing years[/size],[/size] the structure, still owned by the city but managed by Indy mainstay Browning Investments, has filled up with a grab bag of tenants. The Greyhound bus terminal. Amtrak. Offices for groups ranging from Music for All to the Japan-America Society. [/size]“It’s pretty much all rented,” says Browning property manager Kristy Carter. “We have only a small vacancy.”[/size]

You can read the report at [/size]http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/city-buzz/who-killed-union-station/with the title Who Killed Union Station?

The station building seems to be rented out by many businesses. Most aren't transportation related. I'd think Greyhound is probably paying, but I doubt Amtrak is. Getting a rent-free, maintenance provided facility seems to be Amtrak's MO One of the few places where I'd think Amtrak is a paying tenant is ironically enough their bus station in San Francisco. They were paying rent for a building next to the Ferry Building, and now they're paying to share Greyhound's building at the Temporary Transbay Terminal.

 

[John Bobinyec]

How about the Philadelphia airport?

Not Amtrak, but SEPTA's regional rail station is right in the terminal--no need for a connecting shuttle or light rail ride like Baltimore and Newark require...

I've never flown through Philadelphia and was not aware of the rail station.

I'd suppose there could be four classes:

1) Amtrak station at airport. (e.g. BWI)

2) Commuter rail at airport. (Philly)

3) Metro light rail connection at airport (e.g. JFK, DCA)

4) No rail at airport. (e.g. MSY. IAD)

The BWI Amtrak station is not at the airport, it's a 10 minute shuttle bus ride. If you want to pick up a rental car, you have to ride the shuttle bus to the airport terminal, and then ride another shuttle bus to the rental car center, even though the rental car center is fairly close to the train station.

Can't you go from Baltimore (proper) station to BWI airport via light rail?

jb

 

[zephyr17]

Amtrak and Greyhound are in the same station facility in Indianapolis. It is in the old Railway Express Agency space on the other side of the tracks and across Illinois St from the station headhouse. They use one of the old Union Station platforms. What a lot people here would like to see happen is Amtrak relocated into the station proper.

 

[greatcats]

Uncle Dick- I don't think WILLIAMS Junction is so bad at all. Granted, the shuttle arrangement and setting is somewhat unconventional, but it takes one to and from a comfy hotel lobby, sort of a staffed station. The eastbound Pre dawn departure I would say is a drawback. But starwatching at WILLIAMS Junction out in the ponderosa forest has much to say for it!