Vermonter derailment 2015-10-05

shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Shop deals on ebay
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
The heavy crane which is part of a wreck train is called a derrick. Because of the slope involved, it might me necessary to use two of them. However, because of the distance from the track to the engine, it might be necessary to use mobile cranes, if there is any way for them to access the engine and set up.

I saw a movie once of the cleanup effort for a similar derailment. Two derricks could not pull the engines back up the hill. So they anchored a monster block and tackle into the cliff above the tracks and used a bulldozer to pull the cable through the pulleys and dragged the engine up the hill. Amazing!

jb
 
Saw a picture of one coach badly damaged. Just wondering if that sort of damage can or will be repaired??
 
http://vtdigger.org/2015/10/06/cleanup-begins-following-amtrak-derailment-in-northfield/

Article about cleanup. NTSB is on the scene, but no indication of human error or anything but really bad luck, though a formal report won't come for several months. Service is expected to resume within a week. Boardman and other Amtrak officials traveled to VT. Possibly the most important people from Washington DC to visit the state in recent history (outside of our representatives).
 
neroden said:
CCC1007 said:
Looks like warped frame

No repairing that
Click to expand...
Well, at least there isn't really a shortage of Amfleet Is. Hope the locomotive is repairable; Amtrak is getting quite short on those.
Click to expand...
There is indeed a shortage of Amfeet Is.

PRR 60 said:
The word from a poster at Trainorders is that the P42 (#102) is a total loss and may be scrapped on-site.
Click to expand...
If they are unable to raise the locomotive (which is problematic), the locomotive will have to be cut up on site to be removed. If that happens, obviously the engine will not be reassembled.
 
It always comes down to money. Locomotives have been successfully recovered from worse spots before, but that distance off the right-of-way and down an embankment will be complex, requiring multiple cranes and more extensive preparation, and therefore more expensive. That's an important consideration for an engine you probably won't repair and would just be scrapped eventually anyway. They ought to be able to drag the locomotive (and coach) back up the hill, but then you will be doing even more damage to something which is likely already marginally uneconomic to repair.

On the other hand, there is already a shortage of diesel locomotives at Amtrak (among other agencies), and there are few or no options for a design you can order for delivery in the near term. Amtrak could probably order some F125's or Siemens Chargers, but even then delivery is likely to take time, and they are not necessarily the best choice for long-distance trains anyway (you don't need a high-speed diesel in off-corridor operations, among other considerations).
 
The Chargers as currently designed are not an option. Their fuel capacity is not suitable for long distance service.
 
Thirdrail7 said:
The Chargers as currently designed are not an option. Their fuel capacity is not suitable for long distance service.
Click to expand...
The Siemens contract includes an option for up to 150 locomotives in "long distance" configuration with a 2,200 gallon fuel capacity. That was in the RFP right from the start for the Next Gen diesel bid. The quotation marks around "long distance" are mine, because I expect the Chargers with extra fuel capacity might also be used for the medium/longer range state support corridor services.
 
Thirdrail7 said:
There is indeed a shortage of Amfeet Is.
Click to expand...
They keep managing to come up with extras when they need them, even for buffering non-revenue moves, and they're able to assemble a bunch for specials. Maybe they need to convert a few more cafes to coaches. But it's not like:

-- the Amfleet IIs, where they're sufficiently short of them that they intermittently substitute Amfleet Is...

-- the Metroliner cab cars...

-- the Viewliner sleepers, where money is being left on the table...

-- the Heritage baggage cars, where Amfleet I cafes were being used as substitutes...

-- the Heritage dining cars...

Several Amfleet Is will be released from California & Midwest service in a couple of years, relieving any pressure on them.

PRR 60 said:
The word from a poster at Trainorders is that the P42 (#102) is a total loss and may be scrapped on-site.
Click to expand...
That's very unfortunate.
 
afigg said:
Thirdrail7 said:
The Chargers as currently designed are not an option. Their fuel capacity is not suitable for long distance service.
Click to expand...
The Siemens contract includes an option for up to 150 locomotives in "long distance" configuration with a 2,200 gallon fuel capacity. That was in the RFP right from the start for the Next Gen diesel bid. The quotation marks around "long distance" are mine, because I expect the Chargers with extra fuel capacity might also be used for the medium/longer range state support corridor services.
Click to expand...
As I indicated, as CURRENTLY designed, they are not suitable. When you see the specifications of not just the fuel capacity but the projected fuel economy Affigatt, let me know.

neroden said:
Thirdrail7 said:
There is indeed a shortage of Amfeet Is.
Click to expand...
They keep managing to come up with extras when they need them, even for buffering non-revenue moves, and they're able to assemble a bunch for specials. Maybe they need to convert a few more cafes to coaches. But it's not like:

-- the Amfleet IIs, where they're sufficiently short of them that they intermittently substitute Amfleet Is...

-- the Metroliner cab cars...

-- the Viewliner sleepers, where money is being left on the table...

-- the Heritage baggage cars, where Amfleet I cafes were being used as substitutes...

-- the Heritage dining cars...

Several Amfleet Is will be released from California & Midwest service in a couple of years, relieving any pressure on them.

PRR 60 said:
The word from a poster at Trainorders is that the P42 (#102) is a total loss and may be scrapped on-site.
Click to expand...
That's very unfortunate.
Click to expand...
Actually Neroden, what you're seeing buffering the non revenues is projected in the fleet numbers. Some are non revenue cafes. What you're missing is when there is a push needed, there aren't always AM1s available. This results in leaving money on the table. Sure, a lot of specials are running but it would be nice if you could run the specials AND add the additional cars that are needed to the existing trains. Lost in all of the conversation about the Autumn Express is the fact that there is dependence of a lot shop count....for the Acela sets for that weekend, because to compensate for a lack of Amfleets, a few NYP-WAS are going to use Acela sets. This is in addition to trains that typically operate with 8 cars operating with 7, 9 car trains operating with 8 etc.

One of the big reasons for combining 89/181 and 198/90 is to save a few cars and disperse them. 188's set is still completely out if service and don't expect to see three out the five cars from the Vermonter for quite some time. You may not see two of them ever again and two of them were the newly modified bike rack Amfleets.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thirdrail7 said:
Lost in all of the conversation about the Autumn Express is the fact that there is dependence of a lot shop count....for the Acela sets for that weekend, because to compensate for a lack of Amfleets, a few NYP-WAS are going to use Acela sets.
Click to expand...
Ohhh, I had not heard that. That does make it clear that there's a coach shortage now. Though it does seem like there are still cafes to spare. (There must have been a period when trains ran with way more cafes than they do now; I guess I've heard people talk about two-cafe trains in the past.)

This is in addition to trains that typically operate with 8 cars operating with 7, 9 car trains operating with 8 etc.
Click to expand...
One of the big reasons for combining 89/181 and 198/90 is to save a few cars and disperse them. 188's set is still completely out if service and don't expect to see three out the five cars from the Vermonter for quite some time. You may not see two of them ever again and two of them were the newly modified bike rack Amfleets.
Click to expand...
:-(
The release of the California/Midwest Amfleets and Horizons should help a lot with single-level coachnumbers, but with the bilevel coach order delayed due to an engineering design screwup... we probably won't see any of them until 2017....
 
Locomotive 102 was trucked through Northfield this evening, still on its side for vertical clearance purposes. A photo was tweeted by WPTZ reporter Hannah M.

" @HannahWPTZ: Derailed #Amtrak engine driving through Northfield #VT. Went off the track Monday. http://t.co/BwqIX03pgU "
 
So if they were able to keep it in one piece, does that indicate they plan to fix it? Or will it be doomed to sit rusting away at beach grove?
 
I doubt they would ship it all the way out there if they don't think there is at least a chance that it is fixable.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top