EB to CS No Longer Supported

[Devil's Advocate]

Several folks indicated that Amtrak can't do much of anything about the EB's performance.

Maybe they're right, but I can think of five potential improvements I'd like to see pursued.

1. Change the EB's schedule to reflect the new reality.

2. Adjust the CS so it's still a usable connection on most days.

3. Allow folks on AGR trips to arrange their own hotels without doubling up awards.

4. Petition the STB and/or FRA for some relief and/or recovery from BNSF's dispatching.

5. Throw BNSF under the bus whenever some hypocrite like John Mica starts whining about revenue.

I have no idea how practical these improvements would be but it's starting to look less and less likely this situation can be resolved by simply but cutting all connections and waiting for it to improve on its own.

 

[mwmnp]

BNSF has problems, but Canadian Pacific may need to share some of the blame with regard to the EB mess. They too have had business increases to contend with, plus the addition of Hunter Harrison as President and CEO in mid-2012. One of his ways of pleasing shareholders by turning around finances has been the method he perfected during his past tenure as President of Canadian National, whereby as many individual trains as feasible are combined into one super-long train that may near two miles in length. Fewer crews are needed, reducing personnel costs, but the super-long trains tend not to be particularly speedy or even capable of fitting into all possible sidings. Needless to say, trying to run a railroad this way while also accommodating a short, fast passenger train can be tricky.

 

[Anderson]

A schedule change would require cooperation from BNSF, and likely some sort of "spring back" agreement (so that when traffic loads are back under control, either through additional capacity or reduced demand) that will let Amtrak "reclaim" something along the lines of the present schedule if/when the North Dakota mess begins to resolve itself would be a necessary component. Also, since Amtrak would arguably be conceding something in the reduced average speeds, it might be worth trying to negotiate for something else in the process (maybe tag-team with Washington State about a slot for a Spokane-Seattle daytime train slot?).

As to the legal connection business, I'm on it over on FlyerTalk.

Edit: I sent Anthony a PM there suggesting a few tweaks/changes, including raising the specter of having Arrow (if not AGR) waive the 23:30 limit for the Builder to avoid entirely disconnecting it from the rest of the national system.

 

[yarrow]

what a "solution" to the problem. the eb will be the train that connects to nowhere.

 

[fairviewroad]

That's what they did for the Empire Builder - no connections off of it except for the LSL (and who knows how long that will last?).

Connections to Cascades train and Thruway service in SEA and PDX are still available. The MCT appears to be longer than

before. You used to be able to connect from 7 to 513 in SEA...now you'll have to wait until 507 leaves a couple of hours later.

Likewise in PDX the first bookable southbound connection is a Thruway bus at 3:30, whereas before you could book the 11:40 a.m.

Thruway bus (as well as the CS, obviously). [in practice, a same-day ticket on any Thruway bus south from PDX is good on any

departure, space permitting.]

 

[Devil's Advocate]

As to the legal connection business, I'm on it over on FlyerTalk. I sent Anthony a PM there suggesting a few tweaks/changes, including raising the specter of having Arrow (if not AGR) waive the 23:30 limit for the Builder to avoid entirely disconnecting it from the rest of the national system.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling. I hope Anthony is able to allow an ongoing exception for this.

 

[fairviewroad]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amtrak-guest-rewards/1541911-agr-redemption-travel-connecting-empire-builder.html

AGR redemption travel connecting from the Empire Builder
As you may be aware, some previously guaranteed connections from the Empire Builder were suspended/removed by Amtrak this week due to excessive delays. We have decided to allow an overnight(s) at the customer's expense, as part of the same redemption, at PDX or CHI to catch the next run of these trains that were previously guaranteed connections from the Builder. This exception would remain in effect until/unless the guaranteed connections are restored or modified. The contact center leadership is aware of the decision and should be allowing this exception as of yesterday. If the individual agent is unaware of the exception, please ask him/her to consult with a lead agent or supervisor who would have the information available.

Examples:
8/28 to 30 (at CHI) - can overnight once to next run of 30
8/28 to 50 (at CHI) - can overnight until next run of 50
8/28 to 59 (at CHI) - can overnight once to next run of 59
8/28 to 48/448 - same-day connection remains; no overnight permitted
27 to 11 (at PDX) - can overnight once to next run of 11


Anthony Rizos
Program Manager
Amtrak Guest Rewards

 

[Bob Dylan]

Outstanding! Another Tip of the Hat to Anthony and the AGR/Amtrak Team!! :hi:

 

[yarrow]

Outstanding! Another Tip of the Hat to Anthony and the AGR/Amtrak Team!! :hi:

very much agree. nice to see a problem taken care of quickly and in a reasonable and above board way

 

[montana mike]

Bravo--making at least some lemonade out of a whole bunch of lemons!!!!!!!!!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Outstanding! Another Tip of the Hat to Anthony and the AGR/Amtrak Team!! :hi:

very much agree. nice to see a problem taken care of quickly and in a reasonable and above board way

Bravo--making at least some lemonade out of a whole bunch of lemons!!!!!!!!!

That's truly excellent news. Thanks to Anthony and to Anderson as well!

 

[Ispolkom]

I'm so pleased that AGR did this. Amtrak can't control what BNSF is doing on the Hi Line, but this is something they do control, and I'm glad they did it.

 

[cav1865]

Amtrak just called me too; they no longer will accommodate Empire Builder passengers who miss connection in Chicago to Capitol Limited. In the past, Amtrak would put you up for the night in Chicago at their expense if they miss connection. Amtrak said they now put passengers on the Lake Shore Limited to New York, then down to Washington D.C. and not foot the hotel bill for passengers.

 

[tomfuller]

It seems as if Amtrak has given up on any connection at Portland to any train going south. If you try to book from CHI to EUG the first choice is the CZ to SAC with a 9+ hr layover followed by the Midnight Coast Starlight. If you want to go to Salem, you can take the EB and the next bus south either Amtrak Cascades or Greyhound (Greyhound is across the street).

If you get dropped in Portland after the CS has left, you can walk to the HI Hostel at 18th Ave & Glisan St. It is only $21/bed. From the station walk south on Broadway and then west on Glisan about .6 mi.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Outstanding. I'm definitely going to take advantage of this. It's actually BETTER in so many ways, since you no longer have to worry about making the connection - until the EB starts running 24 hours late...

 

[Anderson]

Outstanding. I'm definitely going to take advantage of this. It's actually BETTER in so many ways, since you no longer have to worry about making the connection - until the EB starts running 24 hours late...

I actually tend to agree with this. There are far worse things in life than a night in Chicago.

 

[the_traveler]

You mean I have to spend a night in PDX with friends! The horrors.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Outstanding. I'm definitely going to take advantage of this. It's actually BETTER in so many ways, since you no longer have to worry about making the connection - until the EB starts running 24 hours late...

I actually tend to agree with this. There are far worse things in life than a night in Chicago.

In my case, I'll be spending a night in Portland. I've been looking at hotel prices, and I've found plenty of 3-star hotels for $75 or so. I've never been to Portland, and I've always wanted to see Powell's Books. $75 for a hotel, a sightseeing stop, and my "guaranteed connection" went from being "meh, it's possible" to "nearly guaranteed". I'll take it for sure.

 

[Bob Dylan]

You mean I have to spend a night in PDX with friends! The horrors.

Not that you'd spring for a Hotel Unless it was with Points!

 

[fairviewroad]

I can see the advantage of the "guaranteed overnight" in Chicago or Portland.

But talk like this frankly reinforces the notion of Amtrak being "land-cruise" style transportation. I mean, we all say that if you're in a hurry,

you shouldn't take an Amtrak LD train. But there's a big difference between taking 28 hours to go from Spokane to Sacramento (for example)

and taking 52 hours (as is now the case).

 

[yarrow]

I can see the advantage of the "guaranteed overnight" in Chicago or Portland.

But talk like this frankly reinforces the notion of Amtrak being "land-cruise" style transportation. I mean, we all say that if you're in a hurry,

you shouldn't take an Amtrak LD train. But there's a big difference between taking 28 hours to go from Spokane to Sacramento (for example)

and taking 52 hours (as is now the case).

very true.

 

[Ispolkom]

I can see the advantage of the "guaranteed overnight" in Chicago or Portland.

But talk like this frankly reinforces the notion of Amtrak being "land-cruise" style transportation. I mean, we all say that if you're in a hurry,

you shouldn't take an Amtrak LD train. But there's a big difference between taking 28 hours to go from Spokane to Sacramento (for example)

and taking 52 hours (as is now the case).

But if the reality is that you're not going to make the connection in Portland, I'm glad that AGR is reflecting that reality. I wish things were better on the Hi Line, and I wish that BNSF hadn't stuffed the line with traffic, but if wishes were fishes...

 

[fairviewroad]

I can see the advantage of the "guaranteed overnight" in Chicago or Portland.

But talk like this frankly reinforces the notion of Amtrak being "land-cruise" style transportation. I mean, we all say that if you're in a hurry,

you shouldn't take an Amtrak LD train. But there's a big difference between taking 28 hours to go from Spokane to Sacramento (for example)

and taking 52 hours (as is now the case).

But if the reality is that you're not going to make the connection in Portland, I'm glad that AGR is reflecting that reality. I wish things were better on the Hi Line, and I wish that BNSF hadn't stuffed the line with traffic, but if wishes were fishes...

Yes, but other than the hellish "Polar Vortex" week, the Portland connection to the CS has actually been pretty reliable. It was easily made the last two days, and today's 27 is due in just 30 minutes late. [Granted, with the BNSF derailment in ND mentioned in another thread, all bets are off again in the coming days.]

 

[D.P. Roberts]

I can see the advantage of the "guaranteed overnight" in Chicago or Portland.

But talk like this frankly reinforces the notion of Amtrak being "land-cruise" style transportation.

I know that in the past Amtrak has taken a lot of flak for appearing to be a "land cruise" instead of transportation. But I'm not sure how well the analogy holds up when comparing Amtrak accommodations to its transportation competitor - a modern airplane.

I haven't taken an international flight in many years, but I was just comparing air fares with Amtrak fares in another thread, and got a good look at what "business class" looks like today.

Huge personal TV screens and movies at every seat, food that's now convection-cooked rather than reheated (sound familiar)?, wine pairings and fancy amenity kits... this isn't cruise stuff, this is modern aviation. And Amtrak can't match this, even in its so-called "first class". If Amtrak is supposed to compete as transportation, then why can't it match the amenities that airlines provide at similar levels/classes without being called a "land cruise"?

 

[Ispolkom]

Yes, but other than the hellish "Polar Vortex" week, the Portland connection to the CS has actually been pretty reliable. It was easily made the last two days, and today's 27 is due in just 30 minutes late. [Granted, with the BNSF derailment in ND mentioned in another thread, all bets are off again in the coming days.]

That's certainly true, but I'd imagine that most people making reservations now are doing so for the summer months, when we'll be back to big delays in western North Dakota and eastern Montana, and the strong possibility of sold-out sleepers on the Coast Starlight. A missed connection then would lead to a downgrade to coach.

In any case, AGR won't book a same-day connection between #27 and the Coast Starlight, so this is a great change in my opinion.