The Polar Vortex

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I don't think I've ever seen a preemptive LSL cancellation before. The tracks between Buffalo and Cleveland are going to stay open no matter what, so I find it a bit odd... perhaps there is worry about the equipment not being able to handle the cold (since the Empire Service and Capitol Limited, which are still running, both use different types of cars)?

There has been brutal weather lately, particularly for Michigan. Lansing, Michigan is just recovering from the ice storm.
 
OK, so I notice that Amtrak has been substituting Superliners for single-level equipment due to freezing...

What exactly is the story with the "freezing problems" on each different types of rolling stock? These problems are supposed to be addressed with the Viewliner II design, right? (So as soon as Viewliner coaches replace Amfleets and Horizons all will be well? ;) )
 
SarahZ said:
NW probably meant "below zero", not "below freezing".
Click to expand...
Damn the Standard Units confusion

Saturday 0400 CDT was above freezing was 33F 0C

Now - too cold to think about -- -21F -29C and wind chill is -46°F (-43°C)

What worries me is not the cold - we MT, ND, MN, WI, north IL. MI are used to this.

The border states - southern IL, OH. WV, and Kentucky, Tennessee that have no Amtrak service -- and will be freezing their tails off -

"what? gramps? you say a water line can freeze solid? Naah!

Not really Amtrak related - but - hoping for rail service in Tennessee and Kentucky - and hoping this "big freeze" kills as few people as can in the unprepared border states.
 
NW cannonball said:
SarahZ said:
NW probably meant "below zero", not "below freezing".
Click to expand...
Damn the Standard Units confusion

Saturday 0400 CDT was above freezing was 33F 0C

Now - too cold to think about -- -21F -29C and wind chill is -46°F (-43°C)

What worries me is not the cold - we MT, ND, MN, WI, north IL. MI are used to this.

The border states - southern IL, OH. WV, and Kentucky, Tennessee that have no Amtrak service -- and will be freezing their tails off -

"what? gramps? you say a water line can freeze solid? Naah!

Not really Amtrak related - but - hoping for rail service in Tennessee and Kentucky - and hoping this "big freeze" kills as few people as can in the unprepared border states.
Click to expand...
I too, hope for rail service in TN and KY! Preferably all the way down the I-81 corridor, from Harrisburg, PA, through VA to eastern TN! From where I sit in western NC, I can just about see the TN border across the Spring Creek valley. Or could if it weren't snowing so hard right now.

As for "unprepared": Here in the border states, those of us living in so-called primitive conditions, with limited modern "conveniences," are perhaps BEST prepared to cope with the weather we're having this week.

For example: We heat with wood, and have plenty of firewood stacked up, ready for me to feed into the woodstove. Electricity? We're a mile from the nearest power lines ... and our PV panels will do just fine once the sun comes out tomorrow; until then, we've got a generator for back-up.

Our iffiest infrastructure is water: friends from Maine and Michigan laugh at our spring-fed system, with pipes barely buried, and a short length actually exposed :eek: to open air where the spring pools. Works fine for us nearly all the time. Remains to be seen how our usual cold-weather workaround will work at MINUS 4 (which definitely calls for all CAPS hereabouts). When that exposed bit of pipe freezes, we usually run a spare length from spring to underground water tank, fill tank, disconnect and drain pipe ... and repeat daily as needed. We're not at all sure that spare won't freeze solid this week--it's never been this cold here! In any case, I've got MANY gallons of water stockpiled inside the house, in case needed.

More detail than y'all probably need on a train-oriented forum. But since this thread seems to be primarily about weather (and not the only thread here where trains are only semi-related :p ) I thought a post about how some of us in the southern mountains are coping with the weather wouldn't be too out of place. Aside from some grumbling about "if I wanted to live in the North, I'd move there," so far so good.
 
So Amtrak, and the rest of the US, knows about this Polar Vortex days in advance, and does WHAT? Canx trains. That is SUCH B.S.

I'm sorry, it truly is. You can claim "Host RR suggested we do so" all day long, but unless the host RR actually prohibit Amtrak from running, Amtrak should run, not hide under the covers.

Make staff work over-time, run trains late, but RUN them, load extra provisions. PLAN for disasters and crew changes...

Back in the winter of 78, there was a massive blizzard in Michigan, but Amtrak RAN, 5 hours late, but they RAN. Roads/Interstates were closed, airports closed, but the RAILROAD RAN.

I blame staff attorneys and PR type(s). Many companies are just TOO G.D. cautious these days, afraid of thier own farts. Yeah, the train will be late, it might even be cold, but it WILL GET YOU THERE.

No more. Amtrak wimps out at the slightest FORECAST of "improper weather". Since this IS the only National Rail Passenger company, with no competition, it makes it EZ to say, "In the interest of our employee's (and because it's the EZ way out) safety, we've decided to roll over and play dead during this latest weather incident......."

"The public won't raise a ruckus, because there is NO OTHER rail option, so they will think, 'we must be right'....."

Railroads used to be a dependable form of transportation when all other modes were shut down. Now, just another chicken-sh%t excuse to take a day off. (That's a bit of an extreme statement, but that's the emotion I feel when I read about these train canx, due to weather...)

Apologist, feel free to pile on with the reasons.............
 
So - it's smart to run a train that you KNOW will be so late that you'll have to reimburse everyone on the train, essentially making it a free ride? If they had a chance at keeping within a 2 hr window of the schedule, I'd agree. And what do PR types have to do with this? Attorneys, I can understand.

The Cardinal just got stuck outside Indianapolis. Trip is truncated. Think the passengers are happy about that? Happy about a bustitution? Happy about paying out of pocket for accomodations? Maybe stuck on a train for 5 hours without moving?

I dunno - I think I'd rather be inconvenienced at home rather than inconvenienced enroute...

...unless I was in a sleeper. :D
 
Venture: Most carriers today have no responsibility if weather forces their hand, that is if the train is five hours late, at least they are there. (Years ago, I chose NOT to get on the Twilight Limited in Kalamazoo, my roommate did, and I was "stuck" in Kalamazoo for three days, while he was home with his parents in Ann Arbor, albeit 5 hours late...)

So yes, unless there is "imminent danger" to the train, crew, or pax, run the damn thing. I know my view is not-politically correct.

If things continue along the same path, someday soon the USPS will stop delivering the mail, if the forecast calls for a "chance of showers..........." (If US Mail delivery is still relevant in the future)
 
tricia said:
NW cannonball said:
SarahZ said:
NW probably meant "below zero", not "below freezing".
Click to expand...
Damn the Standard Units confusion

Saturday 0400 CDT was above freezing was 33F 0C

Now - too cold to think about -- -21F -29C and wind chill is -46°F (-43°C)

What worries me is not the cold - we MT, ND, MN, WI, north IL. MI are used to this.

The border states - southern IL, OH. WV, and Kentucky, Tennessee that have no Amtrak service -- and will be freezing their tails off -

"what? gramps? you say a water line can freeze solid? Naah!

Not really Amtrak related - but - hoping for rail service in Tennessee and Kentucky - and hoping this "big freeze" kills as few people as can in the unprepared border states.
Click to expand...
I too, hope for rail service in TN and KY! Preferably all the way down the I-81 corridor, from Harrisburg, PA, through VA to eastern TN! From where I sit in western NC, I can just about see the TN border across the Spring Creek valley. Or could if it weren't snowing so hard right now.

As for "unprepared": Here in the border states, those of us living in so-called primitive conditions, with limited modern "conveniences," are perhaps BEST prepared to cope with the weather we're having this week.

For example: We heat with wood, and have plenty of firewood stacked up, ready for me to feed into the woodstove. Electricity? We're a mile from the nearest power lines ... and our PV panels will do just fine once the sun comes out tomorrow; until then, we've got a generator for back-up.

Our iffiest infrastructure is water: friends from Maine and Michigan laugh at our spring-fed system, with pipes barely buried, and a short length actually exposed :eek: to open air where the spring pools. Works fine for us nearly all the time. Remains to be seen how our usual cold-weather workaround will work at MINUS 4 (which definitely calls for all CAPS hereabouts). When that exposed bit of pipe freezes, we usually run a spare length from spring to underground water tank, fill tank, disconnect and drain pipe ... and repeat daily as needed. We're not at all sure that spare won't freeze solid this week--it's never been this cold here! In any case, I've got MANY gallons of water stockpiled inside the house, in case needed.

More detail than y'all probably need on a train-oriented forum. But since this thread seems to be primarily about weather (and not the only thread here where trains are only semi-related :p ) I thought a post about how some of us in the southern mountains are coping with the weather wouldn't be too out of place. Aside from some grumbling about "if I wanted to live in the North, I'd move there," so far so good.
Click to expand...
Yeah - sorry if my post implied that border states people have no clue about weather - how stupid would that be -- or that us "Northern honcho winter masters" are the only people that have a clue about weather.

"If I wanted to live in the South" with all the damned bugs --

yeah yeah.

No really, I do worry with this "ION" thing that people on the edge of the storm don't know how to deal with the cold and wind.

And I really hope that the benefits of passenger rail transport reach Kentucky and Tennessee.

Paducah is on my "got to visit" places.
 
In MSP, I think Amtrak is worried about the health of passengers. Though frankly, Union Depot would be a great shelter from the bitter cold. If the train doesn't come there yet, then the little station on Transfer, if open, could hold a lot of freezing people. I'd probably call a cab if I HAD to go, but my last experiences with Empire Builder timeliness assures I wouldn't take train trips in January. A train would be a very bad place to be in any sort of power failure scenario.
 
Hopefully Amtrak and the Host Railroads will use this Event as a focus to come up with a Gameplan for when it happens again and be much more ready with a system wide response that will see more trains running their full routes at least close to on time. Freight will get through and so will passengers.

These Winters are going to continue to worsen and most Climatologists who are honest to their science and not politics will confirm this.
 
At MSP it is "seasonably cold" -19F -28C -- totally normal. No snow falling (if there was snow it would be worthless, too cold to make snowballs or snowmen)

No reason whatever to cancel trains. Totally normal winter weather.

No "event". Cold - sure. Use 3 layers of clothing - as always.

Me honcho Norwegian macho -- not really -- normal winter weather here -

Southeast from here may be people unaccustomed to freezing temps. This too will pass. No biggie.
 
Yesterday's Toledo newspaper had a front page article talking about travel delays, primarily flights. However, it did interview a gentleman who had came in on the LSL because his flights were cancelled. The train was late to Toledo, and they took an extended stop in Cleveland to allow everyone to use the restroom. Apparently all but two of the train toilets had frozen up. That may have something to do with the cancellation, they're trying to thaw cars out.

On another front, has anyone heard anything about a train being stranded in Missouri today or yesterday with both engines "frozen up"? My wife had heard a news story about this earlier today but wasn't sure which train it was. Per the story, Amtrak was trying to get an engine to pick up the train, meantime hopefully passengers have been moved off. Not sure if Amtrak keeps spare engines in KC or not?
 
I read the post from the employee who used to repair wiring with his bare hands in subzero weather (because the wiring work couldn't be done with gloves on) and yes, even trains are affected by temp extremes, although not as much as airplanes are. I don't think Amtrak is using adverse weather as an excuse to "give people a day off." In fact the employees on duty end up working much harder for longer hours. Finally, there are regs affecting crew rest for those who work onboard.. if it's anything like the airlines, there is a minimum rest period and when delays start to pile on, the crews will start to time out. Maybe the public doesn't care about this and maybe some will see this as being an "apologist" but I remember that by the time airline crews run up against their duty limits... that's not much rest they are getting. I imagine it's similar for the rail crews. At some point it does become a safety issue, which is another thing I think a lot of people don't think about until an accident happens.

Oh, and to that person in the first sentence, you have my admiration. That is even more manly than the Green Bay football team playing without sleeves last night.
 
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