Increased Prices Have Shut Me Down, Again.

[rrdude]

I used to be able to "justify" the WAS to CHI, even with a sleeper, on the Cap. Not even using AmSang. But no mas.

$93 for Coach, add $321 for sleeper, deduct a bit for AAA or other, and it's still over an $800 RT. Sucks.

So what do you do? Fly BWI to MKE, take the Hiawatha to CHI. After biz in CHI is over, take Michigan Service to ARB (where I grew up and still have family) and fly out of DTW to BWI. Still get a few points (200+) for AGR, but not as nice as ~1,600. Plus, I haven't been on the Michigan Service in years and years. (Used to work it when I was a kid working for Amtrak as an LSA) Will be nice to go over 100MPH somewhere out of NCR.

Ah well, I'm taking the LSL back from a trip to Green BayMilwaukee later this spring, those "off-the-beaten" path airports (GRB) still cost a pretty penny to fly into, so I can "match" the airfare with Amtrak/Sleeper.

 

[MikeM]

I feel your pain. I had a meeting in AZ, was going to try and take the SWC out of Newton and then rent a car or take the connecting bus to Phoenix. Ended up the cost was going to be very close to $1K, plus I'd be both getting on and off of the train in the wee hours of the night. Dang. Wish our group would have more meetings in Chicago, at least that way there's car rental at the station and one end of the trip is during normal waking hours...

 

[rrdude]

Well, in one sense it's "Good for Amtrak" that they can charge higher prices, and still keep capacity at high levels.

Bad for you and me. But I'd rather HAVE trains, and have to pay MORE, than have FEWER train choices, but pay less...........

 

[Texan Eagle]

Well, in one sense it's "Good for Amtrak" that they can charge higher prices, and still keep capacity at high levels.

Well, in one sense it's "Good for Amtrak" that they can charge higher prices, and still keep capacity at high levels.

I keep hearing this argument again and again, can someone please explain what is Amtrak's definition of "running at high capacity"? I am not as well traveled as some of you folks, but on the half a dozen long distance trips I've taken, each time I noticed the coaches and sleepers both were fairly empty, as in, yes lost of seats are occupied, but nowhere close to chock-a-bloc full with nearly every seat taken. On Texas Eagle, Sunset Limited, Southwest Chief and Coast Starlight when I traveled, every time I walked the length of the train multiple times and found all the coach cars always had significant number of empty seat pairs and lots of passengers using two seats to sprawl out. Somehow my brain refuses to believe this is anything close to "sold out", more like 60-70% occupancy. Each time I wondered, if Amtrak lowered their fares, wouldn't they be able to fill up all these empty seats? And the answer I get from folks here is, "oh never mind, trains are running at full capacity so no need to reduce fares" What gives?

 

[dart330]

I only take 2 or 3 long distance trips a year, all of which are funded by AGR. Each time the sleepers are close to or completely sold out. On the TE the sleeper is on the rear when we take it, so we walk through all the coach cars and it can be packed.

The only train I can think of that wasn't full was the CZ from DEN to SAC last May. It seemed much less crowded, even the SSL. But my understanding is it is usually pretty empty between Denver and Reno.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I only take 2 or 3 long distance trips a year, all of which are funded by AGR. Each time the sleepers are close to or completely sold out. On the TE the sleeper is on the rear when we take it, so we walk through all the coach cars and it can be packed.
The only train I can think of that wasn't full was the CZ from DEN to SAC last May. It seemed much less crowded, even the SSL. But my understanding is it is usually pretty empty between Denver and Reno.

Since the TE is my Home Train, I feel your Pain!! As has been said, the Eagle has it's Fares and Rates set by an Independent Board, not Amtrak, and since the Passenger Totals have been Increasing Steadily on this Route, they have adjusted the Price Up/Up/Up!! Also with the High Prices on the SWC,EB and the Zephyr, lots of Folks from CHI have started to take the Eagle/Sunset Route Southwest and Northeast on #421/#422 Days! The Starlight is also a Seasonal Train, but Weekends tend to always be High Bucket!!

As to the other LD Routes, the LSL, Cap and Cardinal seem to always be High Bucket and/or Sold Out, the Other LD Trains such as the Silver Service and Auto Train seem to be more of a Seasonal Thing! The Crescent tends to always be Full @ High Buckets between WAS and ATL but much Less so from ATL-NOL! YMMV (amsnag.net is still a great tool if your Travel Plns are Flexible!)

 

[Nathanael]

Somehow my brain refuses to believe this is anything close to "sold out", more like 60-70% occupancy. Each time I wondered, if Amtrak lowered their fares, wouldn't they be able to fill up all these empty seats? And the answer I get from folks here is, "oh never mind, trains are running at full capacity so no need to reduce fares" What gives?

Do you travel in February? I saw that kind of load in Februarys on the LSL, CZ, Southwest Chief. The Coast Starlight was pretty full (south of Sacramento) even in February.
Now, January and February are Amtrak's lowest-ridership months. When I travelled in June or July or August, the trains I took (LSL, EB, CZ) were *jam-packed*. The sleepers were actually selling out weeks in advance, and the coaches were selling out on some days.

Certain trains definitely have particular seasonal patterns, and some trains have segments with lower ridership, such as the CZ, which is routinely packed full east of Denver, but not packed between Denver and Reno. (The LSL also tends to have weak ridership from Albany to Boston.)

 

[June the Coach Rider]

In February and early March I traveled on the CZ, CS both northbound and southbound and the TE from LAX to CHI. Each of these had coach at probably 80% or more from the major stations, of course between Denver and Reno the CZ seemed less full, but it filled up again as soon as we got to Reno. The TE all the way was 80% or more all the way. I was booked downstairs because of my disability, but when I walked thru upstairs, there were NO empty pairs and very few individuals in two seats. most of the time it was two in each seat.

The lower level was always full on all the routes except the final section of the TE which was about 75% after the bridge bus in Longview.

 

[KrazyKoala]

This is the highest I've seen the CL. I keep checking every couple hours to see if the prices have gone down yet. (Which they have a lot of the times in the past.)

Last CL trip I took a couple weeks ago was $241 each way.

 

[chakk]

I have seen very few routings in my travels where Amtrak was less expensive than airplanes, IF the airplanes are booked far enough in advance to get excursion fares. Still, I will often ride Amtrak on trips of duration 30 hours or less for the enjoyment factor, as I like trains and have so since the mid-'50s.

And, if I have accumulated enough AGR points, I will ride Amtrak (for free!) on trips greater than 30 hours. Such as my ATL->DEN booking next year in a roomette (duration: 3 nights) using points. Amtrak shows the current price would be about $1200. And if I didn't have enough points, I would most certainly be flying it, for a couple hundred dollars, max.

 

[KrazyKoala]

I have seen very few routings in my travels where Amtrak was less expensive than airplanes, IF the airplanes are booked far enough in advance to get excursion fares. Still, I will often ride Amtrak on trips of duration 30 hours or less for the enjoyment factor, as I like trains and have so since the mid-'50s.
And, if I have accumulated enough AGR points, I will ride Amtrak (for free!) on trips greater than 30 hours. Such as my ATL->DEN booking next year in a roomette (duration: 3 nights) using points. Amtrak shows the current price would be about $1200. And if I didn't have enough points, I would most certainly be flying it, for a couple hundred dollars, max.

The nice thing about Amtrak is you can book a trip same day or next day and it's cheaper than flying.

 

[dlagrua]

Amtrak Coach- usually less expensive than flying

Amtrak Bedroom or Roomette- usually more expensive than flying coach but can equal first class fares.

If you want to see what crowded is, try riding the Autotrain during the time when snowbirds migrate North in spring or South in fall. The train is an absolute madhouse and fares bedrooms and roomettes all sell at a premium sky high bucket even months out. Amtrak knows when peak demand is and they gouge the crap out of you as much as they can. The outfit is very greedy if you ask me. No different that those shysters that run the airlines BUT people are paying it, sometimes.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Somehow my brain refuses to believe this is anything close to "sold out", more like 60-70% occupancy. Each time I wondered, if Amtrak lowered their fares, wouldn't they be able to fill up all these empty seats? And the answer I get from folks here is, "oh never mind, trains are running at full capacity so no need to reduce fares" What gives?

Do you travel in February? I saw that kind of load in Februarys on the LSL, CZ, Southwest Chief. The Coast Starlight was pretty full (south of Sacramento) even in February.

Coast Starlight - February -> Coaches about 50-60% full, sleepers even less. At one point me and my friend were the only occupants of one entire sleeper car's upper level

Southwest Chief - November holiday season -> Coaches 60-70% full. I had luxury of two seats, in all three coaches if I wanted to, all the way

Sunset Limited - August -> Coach 60-70% full, my sleeper car always had at least two or more roomettes empty through the journey

Texas Eagle - Labor Day long weekend -> Boarded with one entire coach car to myself, no kidding, I have a photo to prove. Return journey coach was around 70% full, I had two seats all the way for myself

It seems my definition of what is "packed" is different from other folks here. I am still waiting to see an Amtrak LD train that is actually packed, as in, every seat taken and every roomette and bedroom occupied (or close to it)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Somehow my brain refuses to believe this is anything close to "sold out", more like 60-70% occupancy. Each time I wondered, if Amtrak lowered their fares, wouldn't they be able to fill up all these empty seats? And the answer I get from folks here is, "oh never mind, trains are running at full capacity so no need to reduce fares" What gives?

Do you travel in February? I saw that kind of load in Februarys on the LSL, CZ, Southwest Chief. The Coast Starlight was pretty full (south of Sacramento) even in February.

Coast Starlight - February -> Coaches about 50-60% full, sleepers even less. At one point me and my friend were the only occupants of one entire sleeper car's upper level

Southwest Chief - November holiday season -> Coaches 60-70% full. I had luxury of two seats, in all three coaches if I wanted to, all the way

Sunset Limited - August -> Coach 60-70% full, my sleeper car always had at least two or more roomettes empty through the journey

Texas Eagle - Labor Day long weekend -> Boarded with one entire coach car to myself, no kidding, I have a photo to prove. Return journey coach was around 70% full, I had two seats all the way for myself

It seems my definition of what is "packed" is different from other folks here. I am still waiting to see an Amtrak LD train that is actually packed, as in, every seat taken and every roomette and bedroom occupied (or close to it)

Sounds like your Timing has been Good, but try out the AutoTrain and Silvers in the Winter(Southbound/Spring(Northbound), the LSL Anytime, the Cap almost Every Day, and the Western trains in the Summer! (Not even mentioning the Eastern Trains on the NEC during the Thanksgiving and Christmas/New Years Holidays!) Its been a Couple of Years since I rode in a LD Train that wasnt Mostly Full or Sold Out during @ Least part of the Trip and ive ridden EVERY LD Route there is in the Past Couple of Years!!!

 

[crescent2]

We've ridden the Crescent many times ATL or ATN-NOL, and it never seemed very full. Sometimes we even had the table to ourselves in the dining car for both meals. I don't recall how crowded it was the one time we went to D.C.

And yes, we could've flown for much less.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Part of the issue here is that it's almost always going to be cheaper to fly when your starting and ending points are major cities with major airports.

Secondly, buying AGR points is almost always cheaper than buying rail fare. I max out my AGR account (10,000 points) whenever they have a good sale going, especially the 50% bonus.

Third, it helps if you're maxing out your zone distances. For one zone trips, you get more bang for your buck going north-south rather than east-west. WAS-CHI is no good, you're barely into your second zone there.

Also, traveling with a companion in your sleeper saves a ton.

In my case, I'm going to find myself traveling to Montana, probably once a year, from now on. From my experience, Montana & Wyoming are two of the most expensive places to fly into. A round trip in a roomette would be 40,000 points. With the 30% bonus they've been having frequently, that's about $825 round trip, for two people. I just checked on the airfare for the same time, and the cheapest I can find for two people would be $1400. So, flying is actually about twice as expensive as Amtrak, at least for us. And, that doesn't include luggage fees, change/cancellation fees, food onboard, and all the other benefits of traveling by train.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

Amtrak Coach- usually less expensive than flyingAmtrak Bedroom or Roomette- usually more expensive than flying coach but can equal first class fares.

If you want to see what crowded is, try riding the Autotrain during the time when snowbirds migrate North in spring or South in fall. The train is an absolute madhouse and fares bedrooms and roomettes all sell at a premium sky high bucket even months out. Amtrak knows when peak demand is and they gouge the crap out of you as much as they can. The outfit is very greedy if you ask me. No different that those shysters that run the airlines BUT people are paying it, sometimes.

I wouldn't call it gouging, especially as gouging has a specific legal definition. Its basic supply and demand.

 

[abcnews]

The airlines do the same thing - they charge much, much higher fares at peak times. Same with hotels - try getting a room in New Orleans when the Super Bowl or Mardi Gras is happening. It's really being smart - and the proper way to run a business.

If you purchased an oceanfront beach cottage as an investment for retirement, and you rented it out - would you charge as much as you could get? Or just have a simple low flat rate and loose money on your investment?

Is that really being greedy?

 

[June the Coach Rider]

Amtrak Coach- usually less expensive than flyingAmtrak Bedroom or Roomette- usually more expensive than flying coach but can equal first class fares.

Comparing a sleeper to flying is like comparing apples to oranges, first you get a private room with a bed to sleep in and second all meals are included. The only first class fares that give you a bed are international I believe and that is really just a chair that lays flat. Only in first class do you get meals and can you really compare Amtrak food to the junk you get on a plane?

In my book, there is nothing that would make me fly except possibly time. If I have to be somewhere in a hurry I would have to fly, otherwise if I can't get there by Amtrak, I don't need to get there. But that is me, others prefer sleepers and would fly before they pay the high bucket prices. I go strictly coach as I have had the best trips that way. Even if I have someone in the seat beside me, I got great sleep and the commoradory (sp) of coach passengers is above anything you would ever get on a plane.

 

[SarahZ]

I understand. A few weeks ago, I checked round-trip tickets to Chicago next weekend. Total cost was $178 with our discounts. (It's usually around $80-90.) We're going to drive since it doesn't make sense to pay $178 for a five-hour round-trip.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The nice thing about Amtrak is you can book a trip same day or next day and it's cheaper than flying.

Not if you try to book a sleeper its not.

I cant remember the last time I had to leave right now but could wait until 3:00AM to depart and didnt have to arrive at my destination until days later, but I guess if that ever happens Amtrak will be there.

It seems my definition of what is "packed" is different from other folks here. I am still waiting to see an Amtrak LD train that is actually packed, as in, every seat taken and every roomette and bedroom occupied (or close to it)

I think they just mean the sleeper compartments are sold out. Ive never once seen an LD train where every single coach seat was occupied or otherwise spoken for. In most cases there are large blocks of seats cordoned off with nobody in them. According to the staff this is for large groups that will be boarding later, even though in many cases they simply remain empty until the end of the line.

Secondly, buying AGR points is almost always cheaper than buying rail fare. I max out my AGR account (10,000 points) whenever they have a good sale going, especially the 50% bonus.

Its amazing to me how memorable a single one-off 50% bonus points sale has become for this forum. Were talking about an absolute maximum benefit of 5,000 free points from a nearly $300 points purchase that precipitated a huge devaluation in bedroom awards. Versus the barely remembered no-fee AGR card promotion with 32,000 free points you were able to secure with a $0.25 purchase of gum that would never expire.

Comparing a sleeper to flying is like comparing apples to oranges, first you get a private room with a bed to sleep in and second all meals are included.

On the other hand with a flight you arrive in time to eat in a real restaurant and sleep in a real bed. That can count for a lot depending on the circumstances.

 

[June the Coach Rider]

The nice thing about Amtrak is you can book a trip same day or next day and it's cheaper than flying.

Not if you try to book a sleeper its not.

I cant remember the last time I had to leave right now but could wait until 3:00AM to depart and didnt have to arrive at my destination until days later, but I guess if that ever happens Amtrak will be there.

It seems my definition of what is "packed" is different from other folks here. I am still waiting to see an Amtrak LD train that is actually packed, as in, every seat taken and every roomette and bedroom occupied (or close to it)

I think they just mean the sleeper compartments are sold out. Ive never once seen an LD train where every single coach seat was occupied or otherwise spoken for. In most cases there are large blocks of seats cordoned off with nobody in them. According to the staff this is for large groups that will be boarding later, even though in many cases they simply remain empty until the end of the line.

Secondly, buying AGR points is almost always cheaper than buying rail fare. I max out my AGR account (10,000 points) whenever they have a good sale going, especially the 50% bonus.

Its amazing to me how memorable a single one-off 50% bonus points sale has become for this forum. Were talking about an absolute maximum benefit of 5,000 free points from a nearly $300 points purchase that precipitated a huge devaluation in bedroom awards. Versus the barely remembered no-fee AGR card promotion with 32,000 free points you were able to secure with a $0.25 purchase of gum that would never expire.

Comparing a sleeper to flying is like comparing apples to oranges, first you get a private room with a bed to sleep in and second all meals are included.

On the other hand with a flight you arrive in time to eat in a real restaurant and sleep in a real bed. That can count for a lot depending on the circumstances.

Right, but you have to add the price of the real restaurant and the real bed to the price of the air fare if you are going to compare the two. People travel by train because they want to, not because theyhave to be somewhere quickly. If they have to be there then they fly.

 

[crescent2]

Good points, June, and I totally agree. I would never fly again if that were practical! I'll likely fly into Denver if my CZ trip ever materializes, because it would add so much time and expense to the trip to go ATL-DEN on Amtrak. Then fly back home as well. I just don't feel like I can be gone that long.

Flying is not fun imo. I don't like being up in the sky (yet), the airport is a pain, and people are packed in planes like sardines. I wish I could make Amtrak work for all my trips, but it doesn't (especially from where I live). *sigh*

 

[June the Coach Rider]

Good points, June, and I totally agree. I would never fly again if that were practical! I'll likely fly into Denver if my CZ trip ever materializes, because it would add so much time and expense to the trip to go ATL-DEN on Amtrak. Then fly back home as well. I just don't feel like I can be gone that long.
Flying is not fun imo. I don't like being up in the sky (yet), the airport is a pain, and people are packed in planes like sardines. I wish I could make Amtrak work for all my trips, but it doesn't (especially from where I live). *sigh*

Having become a widow as you have, I made a promise to myself that if nothing else, I would take time for myself and travel on Amtrak as often as I financially can. I have cats and a dog, but luckily I have my son who lives downstairs in my house who will take care of them. He already did and did a great job. He says he does not mind and for me to travel as much as I can. I never know when my fibromyalgia and arthritis will limit the travel, so I am making the most of what I can.

 

[crescent2]

That is definitely what you should do, June! Every day is a gift, which I've experienced first-hand with my husband. He was fine one night, and before dawn, his life had changed drastically. I'm thankful we had twelve more happy years together, but his life was very different and he was limited in some things. As they say, "You go, Girl!"

My dog-child (aka fur baby) is the main reason I don't want to be gone so long. I wish I had someone who could keep him in our home, but I don't. I know that sounds ridiculous to some who will read this, but I can't help it!

I'm taking a short trip to FL for several days next week with friends, and am already dreading taking him to the "Puppy Hotel," as hubby dubbed it.

June, I can't recall-- Do you have one of the Amtrak AGR credit cards? I got one last year to get the "welcome" points, and have accumulated more from using the card than I would have thought. I'm going to rack up all I can, and then figure a way to use them. Also, from checking on the AGR website and going through that for on-line shopping for some points.

I enjoy all your posts, btw!