Other LD trains in jeopardy of re-routes

[acelafan]

I’m reading with great interest here and in the general media about the Southwest Chief’s possible re-route. Are there any other LD routes (or sections thereof) in dire jeopardy of being re-routed?

One that seemed to recently escape a reroute is the Empire Builder around Devil’s Lake.

Another might (possibly?) be the Cardinal although I don’t know if there are any viable alternate tracks.

Are the Zephyr or Coast Starlight in any danger of being re-routed off their respective routes through the Colorado mountains or along the California coastline?

If this topic is being discussed somewhere else on the board just provide a link. Thanks.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Well, I havent heard anything about the Zephyrs. The CS, I dont know where or how they could reroute. It wouldnt be much of a Coast Starlight if they rerouted from the Coast would it?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Well some of the CREATE projects in Chicago might reroute some of the Illinois trains, the CONO, and the Cardinal for a couple of miles, if that counts

 

[Agent]

Well, I havent heard anything about the Zephyrs. The CS, I dont know where or how they could reroute. It wouldnt be much of a Coast Starlight if they rerouted from the Coast would it?

Maybe "The Big One" could change where the coast is?

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Touche Agent, I didnt think about that one.

A couple of miles for the CONO might affect how it enters CUS though right? maybe, maybe not? Just wondering.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I'd be most happy if they rerouted the Coast Starlight through The Sooner Nation; then I wouldn't have to travel so far to ride her :lol:

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

The arrival time into SEA if they did that would be killer. mwahahaha.

 

[CHamilton]

Actually, there are a couple of minor reroutes of the Coast Starlight (and Cascades) currently under construction:

• The Point Defiance Bypass, which will shorten the rail distance between Tacoma and Olympia, but which will end the trains' running along south Puget Sound and under the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, and
• A similar, if less drastic, reroute in Vancouver, WA.

Neither of them will improve connections to Oklahoma

 

[JayPea]

Here in Washington there's always the occasional Empire Builder-reroute-over-Stampede-Pass rumor, but I don't think that's anything more than wishful thinking for folks who want to see service restored to Ellensburg, Yakima, and Auburn.

 

[CHamilton]

Here in Washington there's always the occasional Empire Builder-reroute-over-Stampede-Pass rumor, but I don't think that's anything more than wishful thinking for folks who want to see service restored to Ellensburg, Yakima, and Auburn.

The last time I heard Stampede Pass talked about semi-officially was a couple of years ago, when the then-head of the state rail office said that they had looked into such a routing for a second cross-state (presumably daytime) train, but that there was no money in the budget for it. Given our current state budget woes, I don't foresee it happening anytime soon, unless Bill Gates and Paul Allen decide to start funding trains.

 

[Texan Eagle]

unless Bill Gates decide to start funding trains.

You don't want Microsoft Trains. They may start freezing in the middle of perfectly good running and in case of minor incidents you'll have to restart the train and wait for it to boot up

 

[johnny.menhennet]

I have another. In a few years and with some money, the Silver Service and Palmetto, which are both considered long-distance, will have a reroute in Richmond, VA. In addition, the Silver Star will likely continue with its plans to split in JAX and run down the FEC to Miami to get there a couple of hours faster and serve new markets.

 

[MikefromCrete]

unless Bill Gates decide to start funding trains.

You don't want Microsoft Trains. They may start freezing in the middle of perfectly good running and in case of minor incidents you'll have to restart the train and wait for it to boot up

A few years ago, Gates rented a private train and roamed through Montana, so maybe he would start funding trains!

 

[cirdan]

Will any of the work currently being done by NS to upgrade the Crescent corridor affect Amtrak's Crescent?

 

[acelafan]

I have another. In a few years and with some money, the Silver Service and Palmetto, which are both considered long-distance, will have a reroute in Richmond, VA. In addition, the Silver Star will likely continue with its plans to split in JAX and run down the FEC to Miami to get there a couple of hours faster and serve new markets.

The Silvers were the others I thought about with the planned changes in Richmond. I also travel the Crescent ATL-WAS about every other month for work but it seems (to me at least) that the route it takes north of Atlanta is a heavily-used freight corridor that's well maintained.

 

[trainviews]

Will any of the work currently being done by NS to upgrade the Crescent corridor affect Amtrak's Crescent?

No - different Crescents...

AFAIK The NS corridor runs down the Shenandoah Valley to Roanoke and into Tennessee, not going to Atlanta at all.

 

[yarrow]

Actually, there are a couple of minor reroutes of the Coast Starlight (and Cascades) currently under construction:

• The Point Defiance Bypass, which will shorten the rail distance between Tacoma and Olympia, but which will end the trains' running along south Puget Sound and under the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, and
• A similar, if less drastic, reroute in Vancouver, WA.

Neither of them will improve connections to Oklahoma

that's too bad. i always look forward to running by that part of the sound and going under the bridge

 

[afigg]

No - different Crescents...

AFAIK The NS corridor runs down the Shenandoah Valley to Roanoke and into Tennessee, not going to Atlanta at all.

The NS Crescent corridor includes both the route through Roanoke and into Tennessee and the route from Manassas to Atlanta to Birmingham. Link to a NS map of the Crescent corridor.

The (Amtrak) Crescent route is probably among the least in "jeopardy" of the LD trains. Portions of the route in VA and NC are getting upgrades for passenger trains for that matter.

VRE uses the AF Interlocking (south/east of Alexandria station) to Manassas section and pays for track maintenance projects. There is a VA funded double track project around Nokesville, south of Manassas, that will fill in a ~7 mile single track section. Unfortunately that project got postponed several years because of cost overruns on the Norfolk service extension. It is possible that NS would ask VA to fund additional upgrades to the Manassas to Lynchburg section to support additional Regional trains to Lynchburg with future extensions to Roanoke.

The HSIPR grants to NC for the Piedmont corridor will fully double track the section from Greensboro to Charlotte and close many of the grade crossings. Charlotte is slated to get a new station, although when is an open question. Add in a possible or probable new station in Atlanta in the next few years. These improvements should trim Crescent trip times between WAS and ATL and boost the ridership base.

 

[Trogdor]

there are a couple of minor reroutes of the Coast Starlight (and Cascades) currently under construction:

• A similar, if less drastic, reroute in Vancouver, WA.

Actually, the Vancouver project is a freight bypass. Passenger trains will not use the new track.

 

[xyzzy]

In a few years and with some money, the Silver Service and Palmetto, which are both considered long-distance, will have a reroute in Richmond, VA.

Way more than a few years out. From Richmond Main Street Station southward to Centralia, this is predicated on a billion-dollar SEHSR program that has zero chance of being funded anytime soon. Even so, SEHSR would not fund improvements between Acca and Main Street Station. Somebody else will have to pay for that... presumably VDOT because it would benefit the trains that terminate in Newport News.

And I believe the Carolinian and the forthcoming Norfolk trains would serve Main Street Station too, if this ever happens. After SEHSR, the only passenger train using the current route between Acca and Centralia would be the Auto Train.

 

[afigg]

Way more than a few years out. From Richmond Main Street Station southward to Centralia, this is predicated on a billion-dollar SEHSR program that has zero chance of being funded anytime soon. Even so, SEHSR would not fund improvements between Acca and Main Street Station. Somebody else will have to pay for that... presumably VDOT because it would benefit the trains that terminate in Newport News.

And I believe the Carolinian and the forthcoming Norfolk trains would serve Main Street Station too, if this ever happens. After SEHSR, the only passenger train using the current route between Acca and Centralia would be the Auto Train.

The route from DC to Richmond Main Street (RVM) station is very much part of the SE HSR route. Which would include an Acca Yard bypass and new tracks if the $45 million Tier II EIS for the Alexandria to RVM section ends up staying with the current Staples Mill to RVM route. Which it likely will.

As for RVM to Centralia, that is only a part of the Richmond Main Street to Raleigh section of the SE HSR. According to the Tier II EIS draft, the projected costs for all the upgrades to that section is $240 million. But that is an aggressive set of upgrades including closing or separating all grade crossings. Should be possible to restore service over that route while postponing some of the more ambitious improvements until later.

The Tier I EIS for the RVM to NPN and RVM to Norfolk routes, which was just approved by the FRA, has a price tag of $475 million for the 90 mph upgrades from RVM to Norfolk and improvements to the 79 mph RVM to NPN route. I think once Norfolk service starts, the business community and political leaders in the Norfolk region and Richmond will push to have the Norfolk trains stop in downtown Richmond. Won't happen overnight, but Virginia combined with whatever federal funds they can land can afford to pay for the track upgrades spread out over a period of years if they want to.

 

[xyzzy]

The overall scope of SEHSR is Washington-Charlotte. What I meant to say is that as a practical matter, funding for the overall scope has been split into three parts. VDOT is responsible for finding the money between DC and RVM including between Acca and RVM. VDOT and NCDOT are jointly responsible between RVM and RGH. NCDOT is responsible between RGH and CLT. The lion's share of the dollars, literally speaking, is the middle segment.

 

[Anderson]

In a few years and with some money, the Silver Service and Palmetto, which are both considered long-distance, will have a reroute in Richmond, VA.

Way more than a few years out. From Richmond Main Street Station southward to Centralia, this is predicated on a billion-dollar SEHSR program that has zero chance of being funded anytime soon. Even so, SEHSR would not fund improvements between Acca and Main Street Station. Somebody else will have to pay for that... presumably VDOT because it would benefit the trains that terminate in Newport News.

And I believe the Carolinian and the forthcoming Norfolk trains would serve Main Street Station too, if this ever happens. After SEHSR, the only passenger train using the current route between Acca and Centralia would be the Auto Train.

The Acca bypass is pretty far up the priority list from what I can tell, given both the net impact on operations and the fact that it impacts existing operations. The RVM-Centralia reroute is something that VA wants, but there are some issues with Richmond that are keeping it from going too far up the list (namely, Richmond not being willing to run a decent transit link from RVR-RVM/downtown). Given the amount of work that the S-line needs to not be a time-wasting disaster (I believe that the current estimate is that you'd lose a net 40-60 minutes using the S-line instead of the A-line), I concur for the time being...as nice as NFK-RVM service would be, the cost is prohibitive.

Referring to the FEIS on the Richmond-Hampton Roads project, the "no action" option (that is, including only planned-as-of-now improvements) should save 15 minutes NPN-RVR: The status quo option has NPN-Richmond time savings on the train vs. the interstate at 37 minutes, while the no action option saves 52 minutes. I think most of this is the Acca Yard stuff (since one Amtrak train or another invariably gets stuck "on the curb" due to the bottlenecks there), though there could be other improvements through adding sidings (or just double-tracking the line outright, which CSX really wants right now IIRC).

 

[amtrakwolverine]

The empire builder due to flooding in devils lake each year getting worse and worse.

 

[anir dendroica]

The empire builder due to flooding in devils lake each year getting worse and worse.

Might be rerouted temporarily next summer for construction but the tracks are being raised higher than the natural overflow of the lake, so that route should be safe.