My Amtrak Experience.

[Long Train Runnin']

In the end it was a nightmare service. I will not be using Amtrak again. I find it funny how many of you come to the governments rescue. Enjoy all the crappy service you can. I'm done.

Hey man sorry Amtrak isn't your thing enjoy your flight. Amtrak doesn't make anyway so losing one passenger won't do anything for them.

 

[Ryan]

In the end it was a nightmare service. I will not be using Amtrak again. I find it funny how many of you come to the governments rescue. Enjoy all the crappy service you can. I'm done.

Awesome, more seats from us and less threads from you. We all win!

 

[JayPea]

I'm heading to Seattle from Spokane tomorrow morning around 3AM or so (depending on how much time the EB makes up; right now it's an hour and 10 minutes behind) and I still look forward to all that so-called crappy service!!!! Who wants to fly to Seattle from Spokane when I can take the train??? I'd rather, among other things, ride through the Cascade Tunnel rather than fly over it at 15,000 feet!

 

[Cristobal]

I have a very recent Amtrak experience to share as well.

But, sadly, the only 'bad' thing that happened in 2 days on the CS was that we were politely asked by the LSA to vacate our dinner table at 7:10 (6:00 rez) to clear a table for the people with 7:15 reservations.

That *******!!! I'm never riding Amtrak again!

Oh yeah...

The New York strip from that dinner was perfect and my dinner company was very pleasant and enlightening.

But my Cabernet was served warm (room temp) dammit!

Oh wait...

I hope to put together a trip report soon but it won't be found in this thread.

 

[just answer one question]

I have a very recent Amtrak experience to share as well.
But, sadly, the only 'bad' thing that happened in 2 days on the CS was that we were politely asked by the LSA to vacate our dinner table at 7:10 (6:00 rez) to clear a table for the people with 7:15 reservations.

That *******!!! I'm never riding Amtrak again!

Oh yeah...

The New York strip from that dinner was perfect and my dinner company was very pleasant and enlightening.

But my Cabernet was served warm (room temp) dammit!

Oh wait...

I hope to put together a trip report soon but it won't be found in this thread.

For all of you who enthuse about Amtrak:

Why cannot the service be consistent? Even the Amtrakafoamers concede that service is a crapshoot.

Do you know of any airline or other service that is so maddeningly inconsistent?

Is Amtrak management afraid of enforcing basic service courtesies? Does anyone ever check on the service? Wouldn't you think that the raft of complaints (resulting in vouchers) by the people on this board alone might clue SOMEONE in Amtrak management that there is a problem here?

Again, year after year, the one consistency with Amtrak is its inconsistency.

What a way to run a railroad!!!

 

[rrdude]

You are the ignorant one. When you pay out your nose for a room on a train you should be reasonably comfortable for the trip. I got warm water and a pad. I might as well be riding on North Korean lines. Maybe government should get rid of the trains if they are going to recreate the Holocaust with every trip. It is a scam right now.

You may be angry, but the Holocaust reference was unnecessary.

Not called for.

I disagree on the need to apologize, he's simply emphasizing his opinion, you may not like it, but it's no slur on anyone, except maybe Amtrak and the ****s themselves. And please don't say that it "trivializes" the actual event, because it doesn't...........

Oh Jesus, I can't even type the word N..A...Z.....I......S

 

[Donctor]

I disagree on the need to apologize, he's simply emphasizing his opinion, you may not like it, but it's no slur on anyone, except maybe Amtrak and the ****s themselves. And please don't say that it "trivializes" the actual event, because it doesn't...........
Oh Jesus, I can't even type the word N..A...Z.....I......S

Okay. I just spilled water on my shorts. It's just like genocide.

 

[Donctor]

For all of you who enthuse about Amtrak:
Why cannot the service be consistent? Even the Amtrakafoamers concede that service is a crapshoot.

Do you know of any airline or other service that is so maddeningly inconsistent?

Yes. United.

 

[darien-l]

For all of you who enthuse about Amtrak:
Why cannot the service be consistent? Even the Amtrakafoamers concede that service is a crapshoot.

Do you know of any airline or other service that is so maddeningly inconsistent?

Is Amtrak management afraid of enforcing basic service courtesies? Does anyone ever check on the service? Wouldn't you think that the raft of complaints (resulting in vouchers) by the people on this board alone might clue SOMEONE in Amtrak management that there is a problem here?

Again, year after year, the one consistency with Amtrak is its inconsistency.

What a way to run a railroad!!!

There are people on this board far more knowledgeable than myself about this topic, but I will attempt to summarize. Since its inception in 1971, Amtrak has been a political hot potato. There are some in the federal government who feel that it should invest in passenger rail, just as it does in highways, and others who feel that passenger rail should not receive any federal subsidies. For example, the Amtrak budget has been zeroed out by the Bush administration on at least two occasions (later reversed by Congress).

A result of this political tug-of-war is that Amtrak has been on starvation diet pretty much since its inception. It received only enough for it to survive, and little else. It was also operating under the constant threat of its funding being pulled, which made it difficult to plan for the long term. The result is old rolling stock, bare bones ameneties, deferred maintenance, and (sometimes) surly employees, who have had to deal for years with failing equipment, excessive delays, and complaining passengers. Amtrak management has always been very aware of these problems, but there simply wasn't enough money available to fix them.

There is some hope, however. The current administration recognizes that passenger rail is an important form of transportation, and invested substantial amounts of money into it (8-12 billion so far, IIRC). It is still far short from what countries like France, Germany, Japan, and China invest in their passenger rail systems, but it's a start. Amtrak finally got funding to acquire new rolling stock, refurbish old train cars, perform much needed infrastructure maintenance, and install niceties like Wi-Fi. Based on the trip reports on this board, the results are starting to show, and passenger rail travel is definitely on the upswing in terms of both ridership and quality of the experience.

However, Amtrak is improving service one train at a time, so some trains are much better than others, even though the price is about the same. (I remember seeing a schedule for train improvement projects for the next few years, can anyone post that?) That's one major reason for the inconsistency. The other is that there are some burned out, unmotivated employees, but it's hard to get rid of them because they are union workers, and it takes a lot of documentation and effort to get them fired. But again, based on trip reports, it appears that recent hires almost always provide excellent service, and are slowly replacing the "old guard."

 

[alanh]

For all of you who enthuse about Amtrak:
Why cannot the service be consistent? Even the Amtrakafoamers concede that service is a crapshoot.

Do you know of any airline or other service that is so maddeningly inconsistent?

Yes. United.

I was going to say "all of them". Just go over to Flyertalk.com and read some of the forums.
And go ahead and keep saying that poor service on a train is exactly the same as the deliberate, systematic murder of millions of people. I like what Jon Stewart (The Daily Show) had to say:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-june...itler-reference

Adolph Hitler -- one of the worst mass murderers in all of history -- has now become the go-to metaphor in comparison for anyone you have a minor disagreement with....

You know who was Hitler? HITLER!

 

[Donctor]

For all of you who enthuse about Amtrak:
Why cannot the service be consistent? Even the Amtrakafoamers concede that service is a crapshoot.

Do you know of any airline or other service that is so maddeningly inconsistent?

Yes. United.

I was going to say "all of them". Just go over to Flyertalk.com and read some of the forums.
And go ahead and keep saying that poor service on a train is exactly the same as the deliberate, systematic murder of millions of people. I like what Jon Stewart (The Daily Show) had to say:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-june...itler-reference

Adolph Hitler -- one of the worst mass murderers in all of history -- has now become the go-to metaphor in comparison for anyone you have a minor disagreement with....

You know who was Hitler? HITLER!

I was thinking the same thing, but I wasn't sure if anyone here would know of Jon Stewart.

 

[just answer one question]

For all of you who enthuse about Amtrak:
Why cannot the service be consistent? Even the Amtrakafoamers concede that service is a crapshoot.

Do you know of any airline or other service that is so maddeningly inconsistent?

Is Amtrak management afraid of enforcing basic service courtesies? Does anyone ever check on the service? Wouldn't you think that the raft of complaints (resulting in vouchers) by the people on this board alone might clue SOMEONE in Amtrak management that there is a problem here?

Again, year after year, the one consistency with Amtrak is its inconsistency.

What a way to run a railroad!!!

There are people on this board far more knowledgeable than myself about this topic, but I will attempt to summarize. Since its inception in 1971, Amtrak has been a political hot potato. There are some in the federal government who feel that it should invest in passenger rail, just as it does in highways, and others who feel that passenger rail should not receive any federal subsidies. For example, the Amtrak budget has been zeroed out by the Bush administration on at least two occasions (later reversed by Congress).

A result of this political tug-of-war is that Amtrak has been on starvation diet pretty much since its inception. It received only enough for it to survive, and little else. It was also operating under the constant threat of its funding being pulled, which made it difficult to plan for the long term. The result is old rolling stock, bare bones ameneties, deferred maintenance, and (sometimes) surly employees, who have had to deal for years with failing equipment, excessive delays, and complaining passengers. Amtrak management has always been very aware of these problems, but there simply wasn't enough money available to fix them.

There is some hope, however. The current administration recognizes that passenger rail is an important form of transportation, and invested substantial amounts of money into it (8-12 billion so far, IIRC). It is still far short from what countries like France, Germany, Japan, and China invest in their passenger rail systems, but it's a start. Amtrak finally got funding to acquire new rolling stock, refurbish old train cars, perform much needed infrastructure maintenance, and install niceties like Wi-Fi. Based on the trip reports on this board, the results are starting to show, and passenger rail travel is definitely on the upswing in terms of both ridership and quality of the experience.

However, Amtrak is improving service one train at a time, so some trains are much better than others, even though the price is about the same. (I remember seeing a schedule for train improvement projects for the next few years, can anyone post that?) That's one major reason for the inconsistency. The other is that there are some burned out, unmotivated employees, but it's hard to get rid of them because they are union workers, and it takes a lot of documentation and effort to get them fired. But again, based on trip reports, it appears that recent hires almost always provide excellent service, and are slowly replacing the "old guard."

Thanks for the detailed explanation and the lack of vituperation!

The one thing I still have a hard time understanding is the incredibly wide range of employee competence and service attitudes.

A friendly employee goes a long way toward mitigating an individual's ire about balky air conditioning or so-so food.

Yes, many airlines have problems with on-time service, on-board amenities and the like, but I doubt that any of them can hold a candle to the moodiness of Amtrak employees. (TSA workers are not airline employees but government workers, akin to Amtrak employees.) I have ridden many short-range Amtrak trains where the conductors sit at the end of the car after collecting tickets and *****, *****, ***** about Amtrak, A-to-Z. I've been on several long-distance trains as well where, while sitting in the diner at the tail end of a meal service, the servers sit down at an empty table and start to complain about everything A-to-Z.

The simple act of complaining about your employer without caring whether the passenger hears you says volumes about the Amtrak employee. And what it says it not positive.

See if you find that happening on Southwest, United, American or any airline!

 

[Donctor]

However, Amtrak is improving service one train at a time, so some trains are much better than others, even though the price is about the same. (I remember seeing a schedule for train improvement projects for the next few years, can anyone post that?) That's one major reason for the inconsistency. The other is that there are some burned out, unmotivated employees, but it's hard to get rid of them because they are union workers, and it takes a lot of documentation and effort to get them fired. But again, based on trip reports, it appears that recent hires almost always provide excellent service, and are slowly replacing the "old guard."

According to the Five Year Plan, the breakdown is/was as follows:

FY08 — Coast Starlight, Northeast Regional, Hiawathas, San Joaquins, City of New Orleans, Auto Train

FY09 — Empire Builder, Empire Service & Adirondack, Lincoln Service, Lake Shore Limited, Sunset Limited, Crescent

FY10 — Sunset Limited, Texas Eagle, Cardinal, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited

Not sure whether the contents of this document reflect what actually happened/is happening. The CONO's Performance Improvement Study probably resulted in the train being assigned a sleeper every time it runs.

 

[darien-l]

I have ridden many short-range Amtrak trains where the conductors sit at the end of the car after collecting tickets and *****, *****, ***** about Amtrak, A-to-Z. I've been on several long-distance trains as well where, while sitting in the diner at the tail end of a meal service, the servers sit down at an empty table and start to complain about everything A-to-Z.

Yes, I've encountered that as well. In fact, I've been on the receiving end of this kind of attitude: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?showtopic=23222 I don't think it's excusable, but it is explainable: as I said before, spending years dealing with failing equipment, like backed up toilets and broken AC, excessive delays (on the order of 12 hours at times), complaining passengers, and lack of job security (it was never certain whether Congress would renew Amtrak subsidies for another year) might make some people into surly a-holes.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I have not found Amtrak to be a crapshoot. Not for me, anyway. I'm a polite and reasonable passenger who never demands anything of anyone. I ask for things from the SCA when I can't get them easily for myself. I expect edible food in the diner, and get it. I expect the amenities Amtrak advertises and nothing more.

I further expect the employees to be humans. Humans that like you give you good service and are generally nice to you. When you sit there grumpily asking for things you feel entitled to, you will get bad service. And good lord, why not? If I was attending you, I wouldn't make an effort to serve you. Why would I want to be constantly burdened with the weight of your unreasonable disapproval?

If I am going between New York and Chicago with my girlfriend, that means we pay $188 for a sleeper. We eat $60 worth of food in the diner, $30 for breakfast. That means we are getting a $98 room on a train. So I don't get any of the amenities that come with an expensive hotel room. And why should I?

If you're looking for service on the Twentieth Century Limited, go buy a Delorean from Dr. Emmet Brown. That ship sailed years ago. You are looking for something from a bygone age that will never be coming back. This is the age where American's shop at wal-mart. Have a cornoary about it and shut up or get over it.

You will get no better anywhere else.

 

[darien-l]

I have not found Amtrak to be a crapshoot. Not for me, anyway. I'm a polite and reasonable passenger who never demands anything of anyone. I ask for things from the SCA when I can't get them easily for myself. I expect edible food in the diner, and get it. I expect the amenities Amtrak advertises and nothing more.

Have you ever had an SCA who was nowhere to be found when it was time to turn-down or make up you bed? Or one that didn't deliver a newspaper in the morning, or made sure coffee was available? These are all advertised Amtrak ameneties, even for a roomette: http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...d=1241210576173

Myself, I've had SCAs who have gone above and beyond the call of duty by providing things like sodas (probably purchased on their own dime) and tea, delivering meals from the dining car, and replenishing water bottles in the room several times a day, and others who were nowhere to be found and never performed their "advertised duties" like making up beds.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Okay for like the third time..

Amtrak employees are NOT employees of the federal government! It's not that hard... Their paychecks come from Amtrak, not the US Dept of Transportation.

If you want Egyptian cotton than save your money, fly to wherever you are going, and stay at the Four Seasons.

 

[Heading North]

The simple act of complaining about your employer without caring whether the passenger hears you says volumes about the Amtrak employee. And what it says it not positive.See if you find that happening on Southwest, United, American or any airline!

I've heard it, by flight crew on a trans-Atlantic flight. And among airline check-in staff and gate attendants, etc. Although the most amusing for me, ever, was the check-in staff at a fairly large airport who conceded that "we all know the staff at [even larger hub airport] are incompetent."

If I hear it more often on Amtrak (and I definitely do!), it's probably because I'm hanging out in the cafe or diner too long.

 

[Jack Boudreaux]

Okay for like the third time..
Amtrak employees are NOT employees of the federal government! It's not that hard... Their paychecks come from Amtrak, not the US Dept of Transportation.

If you want Egyptian cotton than save your money, fly to wherever you are going, and stay at the Four Seasons.

Wow! You must work for Amtrak. This is the Amtrak attitude.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Oh for crying outnnloud....

 

[PRR 60]

This has to be the most entertaining thread around here in a long time!

My two cents: Amtrak can and does deliver some pretty nice travel experiences with great on board service. I’ve been there. But they also sometimes deliver service that is just, plain awful, with the worst being when service employees treat paying customers like they are prisoners at Leavenworth. I’ve been there for that also – first hand. I travel a reasonable amount, and from my experience, no transportation provider has such a wide range of service delivery quality than Amtrak, and yes that includes United. I get consistently good service on Southwest, good to indifferent service on the legacy carriers (US, UA primarily), but only Amtrak occasionally serves up truly horrid personal service. This has been an issue from Day One, and even pre-dates Amtrak into the dark days of the Penn Central and the PRR. Too many passenger rail supporters, including groups like NARP, close their eyes to this problem or just assume it is unfixable. That is really a disservice to the goal of improving passenger rail service.

As for amenities for sleeper passengers, this is an area that could be improved at very little cost. Those of us who travel on Amtrak know what to expect in sleeper and measure performance accordingly. But picture someone who regularly travels by air. They book Amtrak’s top long-haul class and then have to pay for wine at dinner and non-meal soft drinks and snacks? Even domestic coach passengers get free soft drinks. Compared to air, the offerings in sleeper service are pretty thin (including the sheets). Those people come away from an Amtrak long distance trip in sleeper feeling cheated.

Why not provide each sleeper passenger with coupons for drinks and snacks in the lounge? That would solve any theft issue. How about including wine at dinner in the “free meal” (as is done on the Auto Train). And yes, let’s head over to Bed, Bath and Beyond and get some decent bedding. That stuff used now is, well, not so good. Two Amtrak pillows barely equal one real pillow.

None of this would cost a fortune, and could easily be covered by a modest increase in the room charge (say $20) that most of us would not even notice. The end product would seem more like what someone paying for the best service would expect.

 

[caravanman]

I am a genuine fan of rail travel, and of Amtrak, but it is true that many Amtrak employees are less than impresssive, standards of service are quite low, and passengers expectations are often not met, when they could be..

I am not sure what the answer is.. after tens of thousands of Amtrak miles, I feel that there are, on balance, fewer good employees than poor or incompetent employees,. when it comes to train and station staff, anyway.

The issue of beds, sheets, and equipment is a different one, but with prices rising, Amtrak should provide an improved level of comfort. Why do trains leave without enough pillows, why do they run out of food, toilet paper, why is the A/C so cold in one coach, hardly on in the next?

I don't expect much improvement without more investment and training, I will still take Amtrak trains, and take them as I find them.. but I do feel that the comments and concerns of passengers, about their own experiences and percieved lack of quality service need to be given proper consideration, both by Amtrak, and by Amtrak Unlimited users.

Amazing how many people have responded and read this topic!

Ed

 

[MrFSS]

This has to be the most entertaining thread around here in a long time!
My two cents: Amtrak can and does deliver some pretty nice travel experiences with great on board service. I've been there. But they also sometimes deliver service that is just, plain awful, with the worst being when service employees treat paying customers like they are prisoners at Leavenworth. I've been there for that also – first hand. I travel a reasonable amount, and from my experience, no transportation provider has such a wide range of service delivery quality than Amtrak, and yes that includes United. I get consistently good service on Southwest, good to indifferent service on the legacy carriers (US, UA primarily), but only Amtrak occasionally serves up truly horrid personal service. This has been an issue from Day One, and even pre-dates Amtrak into the dark days of the Penn Central and the PRR. Too many passenger rail supporters, including groups like NARP, close their eyes to this problem or just assume it is unfixable. That is really a disservice to the goal of improving passenger rail service.

As for amenities for sleeper passengers, this is an area that could be improved at very little cost. Those of us who travel on Amtrak know what to expect in sleeper and measure performance accordingly. But picture someone who regularly travels by air. They book Amtrak's top long-haul class and then have to pay for wine at dinner and non-meal soft drinks and snacks? Even domestic coach passengers get free soft drinks. Compared to air, the offerings in sleeper service are pretty thin (including the sheets). Those people come away from an Amtrak long distance trip in sleeper feeling cheated.

Why not provide each sleeper passenger with coupons for drinks and snacks in the lounge? That would solve any theft issue. How about including wine at dinner in the "free meal" (as is done on the Auto Train). And yes, let's head over to Bed, Bath and Beyond and get some decent bedding. That stuff used now is, well, not so good. Two Amtrak pillows barely equal one real pillow.

None of this would cost a fortune, and could easily be covered by a modest increase in the room charge (say $20) that most of us would not even notice. The end product would seem more like what someone paying for the best service would expect.

Great ideas and you have it nailed as what the situation is and how it could be fixed.

One other thing I would add - they need to bring back some sort of on-board manager that would be in charge of sleeper, coach, and dining car staff.

I just was on #8 from PDX to CHI and the Seattle Operations manager was on board. I was able to meet and talk with that person. That meeting didn't happen until about half way through the trip. But, once I learned a person in that position was on board it was easy to see why the crew in the sleepers and dining car were working as hard as they could, were courteous, caring and efficient. Perhaps it was because the "boss" was on board with them. And, that boss was stopping and talking with passengers, wandering back and forth in the cars and constantly checking on how everything was going.

It seems the reason there is sometimes poor service is because no one is checking up on these employees first hand. Maybe we need secret riders, too, who the crew doesn't know are checking up on them.

But, of course, with tenure and the union, there may not be much the company can do about the poor service employees that never get the job done.

 

[Jack Boudreaux]

I am a genuine fan of rail travel, and of Amtrak, but it is true that many Amtrak employees are less than impresssive, standards of service are quite low, and passengers expectations are often not met, when they could be..I am not sure what the answer is.. after tens of thousands of Amtrak miles, I feel that there are, on balance, fewer good employees than poor or incompetent employees,. when it comes to train and station staff, anyway.

The issue of beds, sheets, and equipment is a different one, but with prices rising, Amtrak should provide an improved level of comfort. Why do trains leave without enough pillows, why do they run out of food, toilet paper, why is the A/C so cold in one coach, hardly on in the next?

I don't expect much improvement without more investment and training, I will still take Amtrak trains, and take them as I find them.. but I do feel that the comments and concerns of passengers, about their own experiences and percieved lack of quality service need to be given proper consideration, both by Amtrak, and by Amtrak Unlimited users.

Amazing how many people have responded and read this topic!

Ed

They could do a few things right now that wouldn't cost much money. My room was rather dirty. There still was some remains of the last occupant in the toilet. It was obvious that they don't do a a good job cleaning. Heck the attendant was running us out of our rooms so he could make the beds when we arrived. I bet that was as far as the cleaning went. Have drinks available for passengers in sleepers 24/7. I will get the drinks myself and how hard is it to have a couple of bags of ice on board? I used a bad choice of words when I said pampered. I don't expect to be pampered I do expect a clean room and being able to get a cool drink when I want one. I do expect to be reasonably comfortable.

 

[MJL]

I have a very recent Amtrak experience to share as well.
But, sadly, the only 'bad' thing that happened in 2 days on the CS was that we were politely asked by the LSA to vacate our dinner table at 7:10 (6:00 rez) to clear a table for the people with 7:15 reservations.

That *******!!! I'm never riding Amtrak again!

Oh yeah...

The New York strip from that dinner was perfect and my dinner company was very pleasant and enlightening.

But my Cabernet was served warm (room temp) dammit!

Oh wait...

I hope to put together a trip report soon but it won't be found in this thread.

For all of you who enthuse about Amtrak:

Why cannot the service be consistent? Even the Amtrakafoamers concede that service is a crapshoot.

Do you know of any airline or other service that is so maddeningly inconsistent?

Is Amtrak management afraid of enforcing basic service courtesies? Does anyone ever check on the service? Wouldn't you think that the raft of complaints (resulting in vouchers) by the people on this board alone might clue SOMEONE in Amtrak management that there is a problem here?

Again, year after year, the one consistency with Amtrak is its inconsistency.

What a way to run a railroad!!!

What's the opposite of schadenfreude? When someone else's delight maddens you? :lol: