Ohio Tri-C Corridor by 2010

[ALC Rail Writer]

We heard today that here in Ohio we are going forward with a plan to have a train run from Cleveland to Columbus to Cinn. twice daily in each direction. I've heard it nicknamed the 'Tri-C Corridor'. This would make a marvelous addition to the rail system for many reasons.

They said by 2010, but I wonder where the equip. is going to come from. Some Amfleet I's or II's from the NEC or Chicago I assume, and four P42's...

Open for discussion-

 

[MrFSS]

We heard today that here in Ohio we are going forward with a plan to have a train run from Cleveland to Columbus to Cinn. twice daily in each direction. I've heard it nicknamed the 'Tri-C Corridor'. This would make a marvelous addition to the rail system for many reasons.
They said by 2010, but I wonder where the equip. is going to come from. Some Amfleet I's or II's from the NEC or Chicago I assume, and four P42's...

Open for discussion-

Will it be an Amtrak train? Or, a local commuter type system run on the freight tracks?

I lived in Columbus for many years and they talked about this all the time. I guess while it would be great, I'll believe it when I see it!

Any websites with further info?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

We heard today that here in Ohio we are going forward with a plan to have a train run from Cleveland to Columbus to Cinn. twice daily in each direction. I've heard it nicknamed the 'Tri-C Corridor'. This would make a marvelous addition to the rail system for many reasons.
They said by 2010, but I wonder where the equip. is going to come from. Some Amfleet I's or II's from the NEC or Chicago I assume, and four P42's...

Open for discussion-

Will it be an Amtrak train? Or, a local commuter type system run on the freight tracks?

I lived in Columbus for many years and they talked about this all the time. I guess while it would be great, I'll believe it when I see it!

Any websites with further info?

It's going to be Amtrak- service most likely similar to the Pennsylvanian, Vermonter, ect. They probably would schedule the trains to coincide with the Lake Shore Limited in Cleveland and Cardinal in Cinn. though hopefully the later will go daily instead of tri-weekly.

Here's an article. It's 6 months old- so I assume since they announced they have tax dollars ready they've made progress-

http://www.gcbl.org/transportation/passeng...-passenger-rail

 

[WICT106]

I remain skeptical about this and other efforts. Unless and until we actually witness track being upgraded and added to, then we should all avoid holding our breath. In other words, don't believe it until or unless you actually see it being built -- and to FRA Class 5 standards or higher, with something like cab signaling.

We heard today that here in Ohio we are going forward with a plan to have a train run from Cleveland to Columbus to Cinn. twice daily in each direction. I've heard it nicknamed the 'Tri-C Corridor'. This would make a marvelous addition to the rail system for many reasons.
They said by 2010, but I wonder where the equip. is going to come from. Some Amfleet I's or II's from the NEC or Chicago I assume, and four P42's...

Open for discussion-

Will it be an Amtrak train? Or, a local commuter type system run on the freight tracks?

I lived in Columbus for many years and they talked about this all the time. I guess while it would be great, I'll believe it when I see it!

Any websites with further info?

It's going to be Amtrak- service most likely similar to the Pennsylvanian, Vermonter, ect. They probably would schedule the trains to coincide with the Lake Shore Limited in Cleveland and Cardinal in Cinn. though hopefully the later will go daily instead of tri-weekly.

Here's an article. It's 6 months old- so I assume since they announced they have tax dollars ready they've made progress-

http://www.gcbl.org/transportation/passeng...-passenger-rail

 

[George Harris]

Don't get too excited yet. The first study on this system is somewhere between being old enough to vote and old enough to draw social security. It is still STUDIES. Politicians love studies. That is the way they look like they are doing something, get to throw money at those who have done them political favors, and can postpone doing anything real.

For an example, there was an announcement of work to speed up Chicago - St. Louis in something like 1999, and some actual work done on a few curves, money spent on design efforts for the PTC type system that is supposed to be a cure-all for things like Chatsworth, and trains are no faster now than they were 10 years ago.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Don't get too excited yet. The first study on this system is somewhere between being old enough to vote and old enough to draw social security. It is still STUDIES. Politicians love studies. That is the way they look like they are doing something, get to throw money at those who have done them political favors, and can postpone doing anything real.
For an example, there was an announcement of work to speed up Chicago - St. Louis in something like 1999, and some actual work done on a few curves, money spent on design efforts for the PTC type system that is supposed to be a cure-all for things like Chatsworth, and trains are no faster now than they were 10 years ago.

Thanks you lot of Negative Nancy's! Crush my hopes why don't ya!

(Incidentally, I would never find this useful to myself personally, but useful to the state.)

Personally I think Ohio would benefit more from A. Making the Cardinal daily, B. Making the CL stop in Akron instead of Alliance, but hey I'm willing to support anything that puts more Amtrak around me.

 

[AlanB]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Date: September 30, 2008

Passenger Rail Grant Awarded to ORDC

FRA Grant Advances Route Analysis of 3-C Corridor

(Columbus) -- The Federal Railroad Administration has awarded a $62,500 grant to the Ohio Rail Development Commission.

Were excited about being selected for this grant by the FRA, says ORDC Executive Director Matt Dietrich. It demonstrates the validation of Ohios passenger rail plans at the Federal level and what we hope is the beginning of Federal resources to advance these plans.

Description: Ohio has contracted with Amtrak to assess the feasibility of initiating a start-up service of two round trips per day between Cleveland and Columbus and possibly to Cincinnati (which together define the "3C" corridor"). The planning project would complement the Amtrak assessment and advance the analysis of alternative 3C routes and station locations that will most effectively serve the corridor - both in the short-term and the long-term. The tasks include: program management, coordination with Amtrak and oversight of Amtrak train operations analysis; drafting purpose and need; and long term alternative route analysis.

Benefits: The planning objectives are to support the state initiative for start-up service in the short term by conducting short-term/long- term planning analysis of 3C corridor requirements. This will help to align any short-term actions with the long-term needs, planning and environmental documentation. It is expected that the project would:

1.) Support a State-supported Amtrak startup service;

2). Advance the conceptual engineering and analysis of alternative routes and station sites and facilities; and

3.) Clarify a long-term corridor development strategy.

The awarding of the FRA grant follows the request earlier this year by Governor Ted Strickland to Amtrak CEO Alex Kummant to begin a ridership and revenue study of possible start-up service in the 3-C Corridor. The corridor is the most densely-populated in Ohio with almost 60-percent of the states population, but has not seen passenger rail service since 1971.

( The Ohio Rail Development Commission is an independent agency operating within the Ohio Department of Transportation. ORDC is responsible for economic development through the improvement and expansion of passenger and freight rail services and railroad grade crossing safety. For more information about what ORDC does for Ohio, visit our website at http://www.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/ )

 

[AlanB]

For an example, there was an announcement of work to speed up Chicago - St. Louis in something like 1999, and some actual work done on a few curves, money spent on design efforts for the PTC type system that is supposed to be a cure-all for things like Chatsworth, and trains are no faster now than they were 10 years ago.

While a bit off the main topic, just for you George and coincidentally posted yesterday:

About 30 minutes will be shaved off the 5 1/2 -hour Amtrak trip between Chicago and St. Louis when train speeds increase to 110 m.p.h. within about a year on parts of the route, state officials said Tuesday.

From the Chicago Tribune.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

So grant means they are doing something- better than nothing!

 

[Squeakz2001]

That would possibly mean a stop near me! Hurrah! No more driving 1 and 1/2 hours to get to Cincy!!! Now, if it only would be in fruitation now...

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

That would possibly mean a stop near me! Hurrah! No more driving 1 and 1/2 hours to get to Cincy!!! Now, if it only would be in fruitation now...

I still say the Cardinal needs to be 5 days a week and the CL should stop in Akron... but those two will probably fall by the wayside if and until the 3-C corridor is complete.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

What Alan posted more or less demonstrates what George said, people. Its a bloody study. Its nothing. Go back to sleep and wait for them to start running the train circa 2050.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Two trains a day are pretty unimpressive. There are a lot more MBTA trains than that going from BOS to PVD (not even counting the Amtrak trains that continue well beyond PVD), taking about an hour each way; Columbus to the other two C's can easily be done in well under an hour at TGV speeds, and the population numbers here make me suspect that the C's are big enough relative to Boston that a train with less than an hour running time between Columbus and other major cities ought to have pretty significant demand. (The total population of the three C's is a bit less than the population of the greater Boston area, but a high speed train between the three C's would probably basically serve the whole area; a train between BOS and PVD does not really serve the whole of the greater Boston area.)

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Two trains a day are pretty unimpressive. There are a lot more MBTA trains than that going from BOS to PVD (not even counting the Amtrak trains that continue well beyond PVD), taking about an hour each way; Columbus to the other two C's can easily be done in well under an hour at TGV speeds, and the population numbers here make me suspect that the C's are big enough relative to Boston that a train with less than an hour running time between Columbus and other major cities ought to have pretty significant demand. (The total population of the three C's is a bit less than the population of the greater Boston area, but a high speed train between the three C's would probably basically serve the whole area; a train between BOS and PVD does not really serve the whole of the greater Boston area.)

Two trains in each direction- considering there is nothing- I call that impressive. Especially if you include the traffic you'll get out of transfers from CHI, BOS, and NYP off of the LSL and possibly those off of DC and south from the Cardinal- and vice-versa. I can tell you a lot of people in central Ohio would like to take the train, if the nearest station wasn't ALC, or CIN (but that one's not daily...)

 

[MrFSS]

Two trains a day are pretty unimpressive. There are a lot more MBTA trains than that going from BOS to PVD (not even counting the Amtrak trains that continue well beyond PVD), taking about an hour each way; Columbus to the other two C's can easily be done in well under an hour at TGV speeds, and the population numbers here make me suspect that the C's are big enough relative to Boston that a train with less than an hour running time between Columbus and other major cities ought to have pretty significant demand. (The total population of the three C's is a bit less than the population of the greater Boston area, but a high speed train between the three C's would probably basically serve the whole area; a train between BOS and PVD does not really serve the whole of the greater Boston area.)

Two trains in each direction- considering there is nothing- I call that impressive. Especially if you include the traffic you'll get out of transfers from CHI, BOS, and NYP off of the LSL and possibly those off of DC and south from the Cardinal- and vice-versa. I can tell you a lot of people in central Ohio would like to take the train, if the nearest station wasn't ALC, or CIN (but that one's not daily...)

All the years I lived in Ohio I always heard they wanted a commuter type rail between the three C's and eventually to Toledo, too. I guess they have given up on that idea. Any idea where a station in Columbus might be?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Two trains a day are pretty unimpressive. There are a lot more MBTA trains than that going from BOS to PVD (not even counting the Amtrak trains that continue well beyond PVD), taking about an hour each way; Columbus to the other two C's can easily be done in well under an hour at TGV speeds, and the population numbers here make me suspect that the C's are big enough relative to Boston that a train with less than an hour running time between Columbus and other major cities ought to have pretty significant demand. (The total population of the three C's is a bit less than the population of the greater Boston area, but a high speed train between the three C's would probably basically serve the whole area; a train between BOS and PVD does not really serve the whole of the greater Boston area.)

Two trains in each direction- considering there is nothing- I call that impressive. Especially if you include the traffic you'll get out of transfers from CHI, BOS, and NYP off of the LSL and possibly those off of DC and south from the Cardinal- and vice-versa. I can tell you a lot of people in central Ohio would like to take the train, if the nearest station wasn't ALC, or CIN (but that one's not daily...)

All the years I lived in Ohio I always heard they wanted a commuter type rail between the three C's and eventually to Toledo, too. I guess they have given up on that idea. Any idea where a station in Columbus might be?

Ohio's to depressed now- economically- I doubt we have enough tax dollars to do it alone... hence Amtrak. We'll get some govt. pork for it.

I would imagine it would be on the Western side of the city- I don't see much trackage on the East Side...

 

[MrFSS]

There may be some hope, yet.

Full Story is HERE

 

[battalion51]

Well that looks like a helluva lot more than just a study to me. We all have to take a positive look when it comes to any of this stuff. With regards to Amtrak service I believe (IIRC) since I started riding trains in June of 01 there has been one new train to come on line, that being the Downeaster in late 2001. In that time we have lost the Kentucky Cardinal, Three Rivers, Palmetto south of SAV, Sunset Limited east of NOL, and Lake County Limited. So even talks of service expansions are something to be celebrated. Does that mean we should kick our feet back and say mission accomplished (and have a huge banner hanging on WUS exclaiming this)? No. We still need to push for implementation of the findings of these studies, and for more studies to be done. And maybe, just maybe I'll have the opportunity one day to ride a train on its maiden voyage across tracks that no passenger has traversed in decades.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Well that looks like a helluva lot more than just a study to me. We all have to take a positive look when it comes to any of this stuff. With regards to Amtrak service I believe (IIRC) since I started riding trains in June of 01 there has been one new train to come on line, that being the Downeaster in late 2001. In that time we have lost the Kentucky Cardinal, Three Rivers, Palmetto south of SAV, Sunset Limited east of NOL, and Lake County Limited. So even talks of service expansions are something to be celebrated. Does that mean we should kick our feet back and say mission accomplished (and have a huge banner hanging on WUS exclaiming this)? No. We still need to push for implementation of the findings of these studies, and for more studies to be done. And maybe, just maybe I'll have the opportunity one day to ride a train on its maiden voyage across tracks that no passenger has traversed in decades.

If the track hasn't had passenger service for decades, one should be thinking about why that is. I suspect in some cases that's because in a world that has jet airplanes and automobiles as alternatives, conventional speed rail just isn't as attractive as it was before those options were so well developed.

 

[George Harris]

Well that looks like a helluva lot more than just a study to me. We all have to take a positive look when it comes to any of this stuff. With regards to Amtrak service I believe (IIRC) since I started riding trains in June of 01 there has been one new train to come on line, that being the Downeaster in late 2001. In that time we have lost the Kentucky Cardinal, Three Rivers, Palmetto south of SAV, Sunset Limited east of NOL, and Lake County Limited. So even talks of service expansions are something to be celebrated. Does that mean we should kick our feet back and say mission accomplished (and have a huge banner hanging on WUS exclaiming this)? No. We still need to push for implementation of the findings of these studies, and for more studies to be done. And maybe, just maybe I'll have the opportunity one day to ride a train on its maiden voyage across tracks that no passenger has traversed in decades.

If the track hasn't had passenger service for decades, one should be thinking about why that is. I suspect in some cases that's because in a world that has jet airplanes and automobiles as alternatives, conventional speed rail just isn't as attractive as it was before those options were so well developed.

It is somewhat more complex than that. All these lines became part of Penn Central. Even beginning in the late 1950's and throughout the 1960's both track and equipement suffered from minimal maintenance of old and worn out facilities. As a result, in the waning days of passenger service on these lines you went through grungy decrepit stations to get on grungy decrepit trains riding on track that would shake your teeth out, mostly served by employees that would have been promptly expelled from charm school if they even knew what that was.

Although it is Sunbelt, not Rustbelt the relative success of the North Carolina trains on a line that never had service between end points as good as it does now is instructive.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Ohio has a lot of cities with a lot of colleges connected with a very out-dated highway system. With people driving less, the idea of running a few Keystone-like service trains sounds appealing. If you can get from Cleveland to Columbus to Cincinatti in 3 1/2 hours-- then you pose a reasonable threat to the automobile.

I find people are willing to put up with longer travel times on trains versus road for the sheer purpose of not having to do the driving themselves.

Lots of daytrips could be planned this way.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

I won't believe it until they have actual trains running on actual tracks, I buy an actual ticket, I go to an actual station, get onboard an actual train to Cleveland, watch the Indians lose another heartbreaking game to the Yankees and/or Red Sox, and ride an actual train back home. THEN I'll believe it.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I won't believe it until they have actual trains running on actual tracks, I buy an actual ticket, I go to an actual station, get onboard an actual train to Cleveland, watch the Indians lose another heartbreaking game to the Yankees and/or Red Sox, and ride an actual train back home. THEN I'll believe it.

Cynical a little bit?

Why can't we just have a little faith?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

It is somewhat more complex than that. All these lines became part of Penn Central. Even beginning in the late 1950's and throughout the 1960's both track and equipement suffered from minimal maintenance of old and worn out facilities. As a result, in the waning days of passenger service on these lines you went through grungy decrepit stations to get on grungy decrepit trains riding on track that would shake your teeth out, mostly served by employees that would have been promptly expelled from charm school if they even knew what that was.
Although it is Sunbelt, not Rustbelt the relative success of the North Carolina trains on a line that never had service between end points as good as it does now is instructive.

On the other hand, there was probably a time when the best / fastest way to get from BOS to WAS was the train, and probably even the vast majority of Americans would have agreed that the train was the best way to get there. One of my coworkers has told me in the last year or two or three that he's going to prefer the airplane for BOS to WAS travel until we have the kind of high speed rail that places like Japan has, and he has certainly taken the Acela Express from RTE to NYP and prefers the train for trips to New York City. I doubt the NEC has ever been in better shape or faster than it is today.

Perhaps better quality track can make conventional speed rail slightly less obscure than it is today, but if we're serious about reducing imported petroleum and greenhouse gas emissions, we're going to need high speed rail to make major progress for intercity trips.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

And, if the tracks do need work-- doesn't that create jobs?

Remember-- Ohio has a TON of blue-collar laid off steel-mill workers all around the state who would love any kind of work.