yet another thread on tipping in the diner

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Amtrak does calculate the selections made in the Sleeper into the revenue of the Dining Car, so the meals are not "free", they are included. Look at the difference between the SS and the SM when they took the DC off the SS.
 
Willem, I am like a dog that chases whatever squirrel is nearest, so sometimes I stray from the primary thread. How much taxable income Amtrak adds to a server's wages is too esoteric for me, trying to tip well is more interesting.

Tipping is a "gut" thing. It isn't like there is a way to precisely quantify the spectrum of tipping percentages, but it is usually better to round up, than down. I will rarely stiff a server. I start at 10% for bad service with some server attempts to remedy the negatives. 20% is my baseline for decent service. I tip more than that if the server goes over and above the normal level of service. I get back a lot more in friendly service and freebies than the amount of tips I give at places where I am a regular. The thing I try to remember is that the difference between an ok tip and a fairly good tip (15% vs. 20%) is just $2.50 more on a $50 meal.

Tipping an Amtrak Dining Car attendant if you are a sleeper customer is a grey area, I will admit. I can see the argument that 10% of the menu price is enough because of the relatively high salary that a Dining Car attendant gets vs. a typical diner waitress. So I am hesitant to come out and just say, "You should tip at least 15% in the Dining Car." And my opinion is worth no more than anyone else's. But I think that tipping a few dollars more than 10% makes little difference to me and it makes the attendants day a bit more pleasant. If it encourages good attendants to keep their jobs as attendants, then it is worth it. YMMV.

I hear you Cirdan, but the dining car meals aren't free, they are priced into the sleeper accommodation price.

[...]

It isn't just the money, it is the perceived lack of courtesy. [...] Don't stiff a tipped employee unless they did a poor job.

Even when things go wrong that are out of the control of the wait staff, you should still tip something if they tried.

Sorry for the sermon. But this means something to me.
(While I agree with your points, they are not relevant to the question of how much taxable income Amtrak adds to a server's wages. But since we're digressing and you brought it up, let's talk about the tip.)

Where do you draw the lines between a good tip, a so-so tip, a tip that says "I appreciate your effort even though you have room for improvement", and a tip that says "I'm only tipping your lousy service so that you know that I didn't forget to tip"? If you can fit "You did a fine job but were hampered by circumstances beyond your control" in there, I'd appreciate it.
 
Willem, I am like a dog that chases whatever squirrel is nearest, so sometimes I stray from the primary thread. How much taxable income Amtrak adds to a server's wages is too esoteric for me, trying to tip well is more interesting.

Tipping is a "gut" thing. It isn't like there is a way to precisely quantify the spectrum of tipping percentages, but it is usually better to round up, than down. I will rarely stiff a server. I start at 10% for bad service with some server attempts to remedy the negatives. 20% is my baseline for decent service. I tip more than that if the server goes over and above the normal level of service. I get back a lot more in friendly service and freebies than the amount of tips I give at places where I am a regular. The thing I try to remember is that the difference between an ok tip and a fairly good tip (15% vs. 20%) is just $2.50 more on a $50 meal.

Tipping an Amtrak Dining Car attendant if you are a sleeper customer is a grey area, I will admit. I can see the argument that 10% of the menu price is enough because of the relatively high salary that a Dining Car attendant gets vs. a typical diner waitress. So I am hesitant to come out and just say, "You should tip at least 15% in the Dining Car." And my opinion is worth no more than anyone else's. But I think that tipping a few dollars more than 10% makes little difference to me and it makes the attendants day a bit more pleasant. If it encourages good attendants to keep their jobs as attendants, then it is worth it. YMMV.

Where do you draw the lines between a good tip, a so-so tip, a tip that says "I appreciate your effort even though you have room for improvement", and a tip that says "I'm only tipping your lousy service so that you know that I didn't forget to tip"? If you can fit "You did a fine job but were hampered by circumstances beyond your control" in there, I'd appreciate it.
I understand completely, and I like the dog and squirrel simile.

My questions were more general than Amtrak-specific, and I appreciate the thoughts you shared.

I do not understand why percentages should go up as time passes. This applies to property taxes, sales taxes, realtor commissions, tips, and probably most other percentage-based amounts. If the base price goes up (property value, purchased item, house price, menu price), then the paid amount automatically goes up. Perhaps government is providing more services than before, but are realtors and wait staff? Not as far as I can see.

Unfortunately for me, I don't set the societal norms, and that's why I asked about the gradations of tips. I recognize there isn't a clear line. I do wish there was some way for me to tip an amount that I believe says "Thank you for your yeoman service" with no possibility of it being interpreted as "You didn't try hard enough, deadbeat" by the recipient.

And now I apologize to myself and other readers for participating in the derailment of this thread.
 
I hear you Cirdan, but the dining car meals aren't free, they are priced into the sleeper accommodation price. But even if you consider them to be "free", you should still tip as if they weren't. Say you take your girl out for a couple glasses of wine. $8 each and you both have two and are ready to roll out but the waitress comps a couple glasses so that you can try this great Chilean white. You should tip like you paid for 6 glasses, not 4. So your math with regards to the tip isn't 20% of $32 for $6.50 tip, it is 20% of $48 for a $9.60 tip even though the bill is for $32 and tax. You don't pay for the comp'ed glasses but you do tip for them. I guarantee that you will get a lot more comp'ed glasses of wine if you follow this rule, and you will feel better about the waitress and she remembers the thought.
Don't worry Ziv. Actually I do tip on Amtrak. I just see it as being nice rather than as something I fully need to do, as would be the case in some other restaurant where food is the primary business objective.

But as i said, I do it to be nice. I' not sure whether the staff even connect me with the tip as they often don't collect the tips until cleaning the table which is after I have left. Frequently all our money ends up in a heap in the middle of the table anyway. I doubt that they will remember that i was at the table that tipped that much, and even less so appreciate my individual contribution. I have yet to ever feel that I was particularly well treated, but not badly treated either at subsequent meals on the same trip, but not badly either.

This is in contrats to SCA's some of who have given me real VIP treatments, and this before even seeing my tip (and mind you, if I do get treatment like that, I try to honor it with an appropriately big tip).
 
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Amtrak does calculate the selections made in the Sleeper into the revenue of the Dining Car, so the meals are not "free", they are included. Look at the difference between the SS and the SM when they took the DC off the SS.
My memory is foggy on this, but I believe this to be untrue. I recall from reading somewhere that the amount of revenue recorded for the Diners is based on ticket sales and not actual selections in the diner (i.e. I can get a sleeper ticket and skip all meals, or eat everything I am entitled to at every meal and the accounting on the backend stays the same).
 
Amtrak does calculate the selections made in the Sleeper into the revenue of the Dining Car, so the meals are not "free", they are included. Look at the difference between the SS and the SM when they took the DC off the SS.
My memory is foggy on this, but I believe this to be untrue. I recall from reading somewhere that the amount of revenue recorded for the Diners is based on ticket sales and not actual selections in the diner (i.e. I can get a sleeper ticket and skip all meals, or eat everything I am entitled to at every meal and the accounting on the backend stays the same).
I do not believe that to be true. But I am happy to be convinced either way.
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No dog in the race.
 
... the meals are not "free", they are included. Look at the difference between the SS and the SM when they took the DC off the SS.
Exactly!
Why is the fare for the SS roomette $200 but a roomette costs $275 on the SM?
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Oh yeah, the SM has a Dining Car (meals included) and the SS does not (no meals included). So you think they are still free?
 
It may not be relevant here, but when I was in SLO, I got into conversation with a guy who delivered "fast food". He had no other income, and said he "expected" a 20% tip on each delivery. He seemed an intelligent well dressed bloke, so I guess he was earning a decent wage.

Ed.
 
I've noticed that lots of the Credit Card Readers in Service Type Places are now offering you a choice of %s to Tip.

For example at the Fine Dining Dennys, the range is from None to 25%.

I pick None and tip in Cash what I feel is appropriate.

When using your AGR Card in Amtrak Diners and Cafes, some passengers include the Tip to get AGR Points but I still tip with Cash. YMWV
 
Just from my observation at dinner in the diner where a meal for two is probably in the $55/60 range, I rarely see anything but a few Washingtons thrown on the opposite side of the table.
 
Just from my observation at dinner in the diner where a meal for two is probably in the $55/60 range, I rarely see anything but a few Washingtons thrown on the opposite side of the table.
Me too.

When comparing to folks on this forum, I feel like a miserly tipper.

When I see the people around me on the train, i feel I'm being generous beyond all reason.
 
I just follow a flat formula of $5 - $3 - $2 for Dinner - Lunch - Breakfast irrespective of what I eat in the Diner.
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Of course if I do not partake in a meal, which happens sometimes since full three meals is a bit too much for me, then there is no tip for the meal not taken.
 
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Waiting on an Amtrak LSA or SCA to post how the Amtrak tipping reporting actually works????
Thank you for addressing the original question.

Just from my observation at dinner in the diner where a meal for two is probably in the $55/60 range, I rarely see anything but a few Washingtons thrown on the opposite side of the table.
Me too.

When comparing to folks on this forum, I feel like a miserly tipper.

When I see the people around me on the train, i feel I'm being generous beyond all reason.
You and me both.

And to derail the thread in yet another direction, what anumberone said was extra true during my recent trip on the Canadian, where it appeared that the majority of people left no tip at all, and the majority of those who did tip left C$2 or less. (On the other hand, there are no prices on the menus on the Canadian.)
 
Just from my observation at dinner in the diner where a meal for two is probably in the $55/60 range, I rarely see anything but a few Washingtons thrown on the opposite side of the table.
Me too.

When comparing to folks on this forum, I feel like a miserly tipper.

When I see the people around me on the train, i feel I'm being generous beyond all reason.
Finally, two posters on AU realise that the boastful tippers on AU, in these tipping threads, keep bidding up what they try to impose on the majority real world Amtrak riders, who have to consider the economics of each ones situation. You can tip all you want. Tipping is a 100% optional decision by riders. Please don't belittle or think less of your fellow riders, because they don't meet your standards. The person across the table might need that tip more than the server making $25 an hour plus tips.
 
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I just follow a flat formula of $5 - $3 - $2 for Dinner - Lunch - Breakfast irrespective of what I eat in the Diner.
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:)
We also do the same thing. Leave $2 bills I get from the bank as a way for them to remember us. They usually smile and are appreciative of getting something since most of the people we observe in the diner leave nothing. We have had dining mates who ask us if tipping is appropriate (they were first time Amtrak riders) and we tell them what we do but say it is up to them as to how much or if they wish to tip. Tipping is a personal thing and there really should be no rule. Do what you feel!!
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Just from my observation at dinner in the diner where a meal for two is probably in the $55/60 range, I rarely see anything but a few Washingtons thrown on the opposite side of the table.
Me too.

When comparing to folks on this forum, I feel like a miserly tipper.

When I see the people around me on the train, i feel I'm being generous beyond all reason.
Finally, two posters on AU realise that the boastful tippers on AU, in these tipping threads, keep bidding up what they try to impose on the majority real world Amtrak riders, who have to consider the economics of each ones situation. You can tip all you want. Tipping is a 100% optional decision by riders. Please don't belittle or think less of your fellow riders, because they don't meet your standards. The person across the table might need that tip more than the server making $25 an hour plus tips.
Is that what they really make per hour?
 
As a bi-monthly, almost monthly AT passenger for many years, I find the service and food quality to be on a major downward spiral. The big hit seems to have been about 3 years ago when the Accountants took over and most all the amenities have disappeared (regulars know what I mean). The sleeper dining has degenerated to plastic and paper...expecting the "sporks" any trip now. If tipping is supposed to be related to service...the Servers would be leaving a $5 on each place-setting for the passenger!!! I've always got a bedroom, and its' attendant has generally been fine...so I'll give him $10-20. But that dining car staff ...
 
The company where i work has issued new guidelines on integrity and fighting corruption.

In the section on gifts it says one needs to exercise extreme care with gifts, even if of small value.

When it comes to government employees, gifts are a no-go. I need to check every gift individually with our integrity officer and record it.

If I were to implement that literally, I'd have a problem tipping on Amtrak, right?
 
I don't think those rules are intended to prevent small token tips, and even more so if it has nothing to do with any transaction in which the company is a party directly or indirectly. But of course, if you don't want to tip, you should not have to lean on someone else to arrive at that conclusion
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Juuust kidding.
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By that reasoning, if you go to your state Capitol and have a lunch in the restaurant in that building, you don’t tip the server because they are a Government employee. If you claim they are not, why do you claim Amtrak servers are Government employees?
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Sure, Amtrak gets a subsidy from the Government (via Congress), but so does your manufacturer of your car. So are all Dodge employees Government employees too?
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Whether to tip in the diner is not a question that occurs in a vacuum. Everything has a context.

There is tipping at virtually every point in an Amtrak journey. If you use a red cap in the station, you tip. In the cafe car, there is a cup on the counter for tips. The SCA normally receives a tip at the end of the journey, and sometimes during the journey as well.

In this context, how is it possible to question whether the servers in the dining car should be tipped? You'd have to prove that somehow they are the exceptions. I don't see it.
 
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