I got on a train recently with baby in arms. No seats were empty but two gentlemen--one elderly, the other a teenager--jumped up to offer seating for me. It's not their fault that I chose to take a baby on a crowded train, and I was perfectly able to stand, but it sure was nice. I don't go around expecting to get a seat because I am a woman or a mother, but I love knowing that such consideration exists. Makes for a kinder, gentler world! BTW, I have often seen women vacate seats on buses and trains for someone less able-bodied.
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Trainmans daughter
OBS Chief
It's kind of discouraging, isn't it Sunchaser? Although chivalry is not dead, it may be on life support. Common courtesy is not so common. I too, am surprised at the attitude of several posters here. I guess I expected too much.
However, I will continue to offer my seat to anyone standing (since not all disabilities are obvious), and I will continue to hold doors open for others, and I will continue to let people go ahead of me in the supermarket line if they have fewer items than I. Respecting others makes me respect myself more.
However, I will continue to offer my seat to anyone standing (since not all disabilities are obvious), and I will continue to hold doors open for others, and I will continue to let people go ahead of me in the supermarket line if they have fewer items than I. Respecting others makes me respect myself more.
Excellent philosophy to live by! Ive been around for awhile, still like the quote about youth being wasted on the young even if it's not clear who actually said it first! Courtesy is always appropriate, someday the Im gonna live forever crowd will get old and wonder about todays youth going to hell in a hand basket! Keep on keepin on, you can have my seat anyday if were on a crowded train!
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
Excuse my bluntness, but either women are equal or they aren't. If they are, then there is no reason to offer an otherwise comparable person (say, alone, mid-20s, reasonably healthy, and capable of safely standing on a moving train) just because they happen to have different hormones and sexual organs than myself. I can come of with dozens of reasons why I'd give up my seat to someone, including the simple one that I happen to be a lot more capable than most of balancing and anticipating unusual motion on a train, and thus are safer standing than someone who is on their first trip.
To a mother with children, I'd offer a seat. To an older woman clearly in greater need than me of a seat, I'd offer a seat.
To my own girlfriend? Likely I'd sit. Why? Because we are otherwise comparable, except I happen to have a bad back, bad ankles, and a bum leg.
Chivalry died when various women went marching in demonstration asking for it, and numerous other discriminatory practices, to be removed in favor of equality. Oh, yes, discriminatory.
Discrimination, dis-crim-i-na-tion |disˌkriməˈnā sh ən|, Noun, first definition: Varying treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex
Discrimination does not imply negativity. It is discrimination to treat one group of people better OR worse than another.
I don't object to equality under any circumstances. What I object to is a definition that seems to imply that women should be equal via the loss of inequitable practices they consider negative, whilst retaining inequitable practices they consider positive.
I don't mean to offend, although, as always, I don't make any particular effort to avoid it.
Oh, by the way, to quote Abraham Lincoln, "This reminds me of a story." Some time a few years back, when I was attending college, I was in one of my better moods, and upon entering the school Library, a female student was approaching the front entrance from within carrying what appeared to me to be both a heavy school bag and several heavy reference books. Having been in the, uh, fun situation of attempting to open the heavy doors while carrying similarly cumbersome and heavy loads, I held open the door and stood aside for the girl to pass.
It was easy for me to do, it seemed to me the girl, or more accurately, person, needed the help. So I did it. And forever to this day consider it one of the funniest things to ever happen to me. Because she promptly started screaming at me for being a male chauvinist pig who thinks that a woman can't open the door for herself ("Lady," I thought, "I am a lot larger and stronger than you, and I have trouble doing it!"). In response to this clear request to retract my offer of help, I let go of the door as she, for reasons unclear to me, continued to proceed to go through it. I had figured she'd wait for it to close and then make a statement by opening the blasted thing herself and marching through it.
At which point, a gust of wind blew the heavy door into her face, causing her to stumble backwards and fall on her posterior. Several people, male and female, standing around and watching because they had been startled by her literal screaching, started laughing their heads off. Her face turned red and she started blowing off even more steam.
I, feeling bad about what happened (I, contrary to common belief, do not enjoy hurting people- at least unintentionally), attempted to offer her a hand getting up and collecting her stuff. Whereupon, she promptly started screaming "SEXUAL HARASSMENT!"
Finally, her roommate or friend or partner, or whatever their relationship was, came over, told her, in less kind language, to be quiet in a fashion somehow related to sexual actions, that she was making a huge fool of herself, that she managed to fit under two outdated categories of mental impairment, and that she apparently needed to receive a status of living. She got up, her friend gave her help with her things, and while carefully studying the pavement outside the entire time, walked away.
Honestly, with people like that, how can you expect us to be chivalrous even if we want to?
To a mother with children, I'd offer a seat. To an older woman clearly in greater need than me of a seat, I'd offer a seat.
To my own girlfriend? Likely I'd sit. Why? Because we are otherwise comparable, except I happen to have a bad back, bad ankles, and a bum leg.
Chivalry died when various women went marching in demonstration asking for it, and numerous other discriminatory practices, to be removed in favor of equality. Oh, yes, discriminatory.
Discrimination, dis-crim-i-na-tion |disˌkriməˈnā sh ən|, Noun, first definition: Varying treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex
Discrimination does not imply negativity. It is discrimination to treat one group of people better OR worse than another.
I don't object to equality under any circumstances. What I object to is a definition that seems to imply that women should be equal via the loss of inequitable practices they consider negative, whilst retaining inequitable practices they consider positive.
I don't mean to offend, although, as always, I don't make any particular effort to avoid it.
Oh, by the way, to quote Abraham Lincoln, "This reminds me of a story." Some time a few years back, when I was attending college, I was in one of my better moods, and upon entering the school Library, a female student was approaching the front entrance from within carrying what appeared to me to be both a heavy school bag and several heavy reference books. Having been in the, uh, fun situation of attempting to open the heavy doors while carrying similarly cumbersome and heavy loads, I held open the door and stood aside for the girl to pass.
It was easy for me to do, it seemed to me the girl, or more accurately, person, needed the help. So I did it. And forever to this day consider it one of the funniest things to ever happen to me. Because she promptly started screaming at me for being a male chauvinist pig who thinks that a woman can't open the door for herself ("Lady," I thought, "I am a lot larger and stronger than you, and I have trouble doing it!"). In response to this clear request to retract my offer of help, I let go of the door as she, for reasons unclear to me, continued to proceed to go through it. I had figured she'd wait for it to close and then make a statement by opening the blasted thing herself and marching through it.
At which point, a gust of wind blew the heavy door into her face, causing her to stumble backwards and fall on her posterior. Several people, male and female, standing around and watching because they had been startled by her literal screaching, started laughing their heads off. Her face turned red and she started blowing off even more steam.
I, feeling bad about what happened (I, contrary to common belief, do not enjoy hurting people- at least unintentionally), attempted to offer her a hand getting up and collecting her stuff. Whereupon, she promptly started screaming "SEXUAL HARASSMENT!"
Finally, her roommate or friend or partner, or whatever their relationship was, came over, told her, in less kind language, to be quiet in a fashion somehow related to sexual actions, that she was making a huge fool of herself, that she managed to fit under two outdated categories of mental impairment, and that she apparently needed to receive a status of living. She got up, her friend gave her help with her things, and while carefully studying the pavement outside the entire time, walked away.
Honestly, with people like that, how can you expect us to be chivalrous even if we want to?
TVRM610
Conductor
Thanks GML... I agree.
sunchaser
Conductor
GML,
I know you are trying really hard to be pleasant, & I appreciate that.
As I said before, I would offer a seat to anyone. I remember that you have some physical things that would mean it would be better for you to sit.
I would most certainly offer you a seat, though even if I did not know that.
I also think that if you didn't have those problems you would probably be more likely to offer your seat.
I remember that time where women were demanding all sorts of things. I was not one of them. I do think that if I work the same job as someone else, I should be paid the same, based on my experience & training, not sex.
IMHO, I think all it gave women was more work & less appreciation because they were so angry, & many of them still are.
So maybe it's discriminatory to realize that a woman will be physically smaller & therefore more easily injured in case of a sudden stop? So I should not offer her a seat? (Except of course, those of us that have a 'greater need')
I know a few people that upon looking at them, you would not know that they are in fact dealing with injuries- knee pain, back pain, neck pain, etc. These may only surface after pushing their physical limits for a while.
As for your college story, I'm not surprised. Sometimes you just can't win. There have been times when I have offered assistance to someone mobility impaired & they responded with anger. That does not make me not want to offer it to others.
GML, there are plenty of people out there that still appreciate the offer of assistance, or simple courtesy. There are others that don't. That's their problem, not yours. You & I cannot control the actions of others, but we can control our reaction to them.
Trainmans daughter
OBS Chief
GML, you can have my seat anytime.
sunchaser
Conductor
oldtimer
OBS Chief
In the past I would travel for both jobs that I held at the time. The first one was as an employee of Amtrak and on my pass (of course my pleasure travel was on a pass, even if it meant that I would pay 80% of the full price on some days.) My second job even if it was closely related to the first I would always purchase a ticket, as it was for a labor union and the Dept of Labor has been keeping unions under their thumb. (Wish the government did the same for corporations, especially in the financial field.)
I suffer from more than one of those hidden disabilities and standing is one of my weak spots. If I were traveling on RR business or my pass I would gladly give up my seat as it is one of the restrictions of a pass if the train is crowded. If I knew the crew I was always offered a seat in their "office". When the seat was paid for I would also gladly offer it to an elderly passenger, a mother with child, and others with obvious physical challenges. Several times my seatmate would be shamed into offering their seat also. I have even had another young passengers offer their seat to me or in lieu of my changing seats offer their seat.
So thank you Trainmans daughter for the consideration of hidden disabilities I don't think I would take your offer (and suffer in silence), but hope that some young passenger would be inspired by your offer.
C
Cramer
Guest
It will probably be a long time, if ever, I ride Amtrak again. My wife and I had our first experience on Amtrak this week. No sleeper available and took coach to NM from E.Tex. Seats won't recline far enough to be comfortable for sleeping. Amtrak is at the mercy of freight trains. You wait on them if they're slow or broken down. Some of the employees are rude or otherwise just uncaring. All this is to be expected I guess but overall was the experience coming back that was over the top. A woman was traveling from Los Angeles to Littlerock Ark. with her kids and she would not control them. Loud and running up and down the aisle. One night till two O'clock in the morning. So much for the Amtrak experience...next time I'll drive.
Hope you have written to Amtrak or called them and told them all about the problems. They want to know these things.
Did you tell the conductor about the kids? Did anyone tell the conductor or car attendant? They need to know and if they were told and didn't do anything, then again, call Amtrak and tell them.
spacecadet
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2008
- Messages
- 368
I'm sure this was no fun, but I don't really know how you can blame Amtrak for this. Blame the mother.
I flew to Japan last month, as I often do these days. This is a 14 hour flight. On the inbound leg, we had a screaming baby next to us for the entire flight. Not just crying, screaming. The parents seemed like they knew it was bothersome to other people but had basically thrown up their hands and said "there's nothing we can do about it". The flight attendants did their best, offering toys, food and other things, but this child just would not be quiet. For 14 hours.
It happens. This is the nature of riding in a transportation vehicle with a lot of other people and no privacy. Really the only people you can blame at all are the parents for choosing to travel with their child during this phase of their life, although sometimes they have no choice either. It's too bad you couldn't get a bedroom, but you also can't blame Amtrak for there being more demand than supply for those.
You can still write a letter to Amtrak; see if they will do anything for you. I doubt it, though.
C
cramer
Guest
I overheard the woman's daughter talking on her phone saying that one of the passengers had told her brothers that they were going to be reported to the conducter. If they were it apparently didn't do any good. I'm not blaming Amtrak for the actions of these kids. I know it's the parents responsibility. I did talk to the conducter when we left the train. I just won't put myself in the position for this to happen again.
G
Guest
Guest
Try a sleeper next time. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
caravanman
Engineer
Hi,
Seems important to remember that Guest Cramer is not just upset about the noisy children, his outward trip was marred by freight train delays, and rude and uncaring Amtrak staff... Now, those items are so regularly featured on here that we need a "Room 101".. somewhere that bad things that 'aint going to change, can be hidden!
Eddie
ps I wonder whether the OP did get a reply.. after all this topic started in 2005...?
Seems important to remember that Guest Cramer is not just upset about the noisy children, his outward trip was marred by freight train delays, and rude and uncaring Amtrak staff... Now, those items are so regularly featured on here that we need a "Room 101".. somewhere that bad things that 'aint going to change, can be hidden!
Eddie
ps I wonder whether the OP did get a reply.. after all this topic started in 2005...?
T
TED JOHNSON
Guest
I took the Coastal Starlight on dec'1,2010,Even thur the train was an hour &half late,and actually caught fire south of el ka horn pass,and 2 hours late getting into LA,It was a great journey,met new friend's,On Dec 3,I took the Sw chief and the sleeper restroom on car 0430 went down,100%of my fellow passenger's all helped the attendant w/the probelm,and i met new friend's and Althur i read alot of compaints,I have NEVER encountered a huge set back while on Amtrak,Happy Holiday's everybody,Ted
amtrakwolverine
Engineer
Drive cross country then get stuck in gridlock find hotels and gas stations see how much you like that. If you fly your not going to get picture perfect service either not all flight attendants are happy,cheerful either from reading reports on here. have fun driving cross country. Freght traffic is not amtraks problem amtrak owns very little rail so they get stuck on the back burner while freight trains get the go ahead. mantnece problems are amtraks problem so is rude and uncaring staff. all you can do is take names and report the rude "I don't give a damn about my job" employees.
D
Deanna stockton
Guest
What dose everyone think please let me know I am a single mother of a two and a four year old boys and the amtrak kicked me and my boys off in the middle of down town Dallas because my two year old son has ADHD witch means he can't stay still well I tryed to explain that to them but they still did not care I had no money and no clue where I was never been to Texas in my life I had to call the police because I had no where to go they took me to a homeless shelter and on top of it all I payed for three seats but the lady only allowed me two please respond and let me know what u think I'm thinking of a law suit they put me and my kids life in danger
Deanna - while we are sorry for your situation we ask that you understand this forum is in no way associated with, or part of, Amtrak.
There is nothing we can do for you other than to suggest you contact Amtrak directly and explain your situation. Their phone is: 1-800-872-7245
You can also look at their contact page for further information, It is found HERE.
Thank you.
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