where to send complaint letter

[AlanB]

Moderators, is there a way to close the old threads without too much trouble?Just wondering.

Sadly, no.

Even if there were however, that's not always desirable. There are times like this where there was some confusion caused by the guest making their post in such an old topic, instead of starting a new one. However, there are also times where it can be helpful to bring back an old topic.

Of course if one uses the "new post" function, that is to click on that little orange square next to the topic title, then any confusion should be minimized as you'd have to roll back up to see the old posts.

 

[Sue in KY]

Of course if one uses the "new post" function, that is to click on that little orange square next to the topic title, then any confusion should be minimized as you'd have to roll back up to see the old posts.

Well, I'll be! I'm into my second year here, and I just learned there's more to that little orange square than just to tell you the topic has new posts in it!

Thanks, Alan!

 

[Trainmans daughter]

To the "guest" that posted yesterday regarding a recent problem (Post #13), I wish there was a way to send comlaint letters to the parents of all the jerk college kids that treated your mom and aunt so rudely. That is totally unexcusable and I'm really angry!

 

[sunchaser]

Moderators, is there a way to close the old threads without too much trouble?Just wondering.

Sadly, no.

Even if there were however, that's not always desirable. There are times like this where there was some confusion caused by the guest making their post in such an old topic, instead of starting a new one. However, there are also times where it can be helpful to bring back an old topic.

Of course if one uses the "new post" function, that is to click on that little orange square next to the topic title, then any confusion should be minimized as you'd have to roll back up to see the old posts.

Oh, thank you, Alan-I did not know about that function! I will try to remember to use that!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

some forums the threads automaticly close after a time like 90 days of no posts or if the thread is over 90 days you have to check a box that says you understand the thread is X days or months old but you still want to post.

 

[TVRM610]

To the "guest" that posted yesterday regarding a recent problem (Post #13), I wish there was a way to send comlaint letters to the parents of all the jerk college kids that treated your mom and aunt so rudely. That is totally unexcusable and I'm really angry!

What exactly did these "jerk" college kids do? They sat down on a train that they had tickets for. I'm not in college, and admittedly had no idea it was spring break in California (imagine my surprise) when I boarded a Pacific Surfliner couple weeks ago. Yes it was standing room only, that's what "Unreserved" on your ticket stands for. I personally was amazed at the level of professionalism from the Conductors.. we must have had a different crew. I did notice that at every stop the Conductor would announce "You must have an Amtrak ticket to board this train, no visitors please."

The fact that someone thought they would be able to board a Surfliner train mid-route and be able to go up the stairs, help someone with luggage, and then back down the stairs means this person obviously has no clue how the Surfliner trains run... I wouldn't attempt that on a LD train... let alone for a regional service.

 

[Trainmans daughter]

I was responding to the first paragraph of the post that says these college students sat while two elderly women stood through 4 stops! Yes, these jerks had a perfect right to sit in seats that they had tickets for. However, the 88 and 86 year old women also had tickets. I just find it hard to believe that not one of those kids had the courtesy to give up their seat to an elderly woman!

 

[TVRM610]

I was responding to the first paragraph of the post that says these college students sat while two elderly women stood through 4 stops! Yes, these jerks had a perfect right to sit in seats that they had tickets for. However, the 88 and 86 year old women also had tickets. I just find it hard to believe that not one of those kids had the courtesy to give up their seat to an elderly woman!

Well then count me as a jerk as well... there was a lady with kids standing in the aisle next to me (the kids were old enough to stand on their own... she wasnt holding them.. and her husband was with her). I didn't offer her my seat. Of course.. the Conductors on my train were announcing that the train was standing room only, and if passenger boarding the train required a seat then they should wait for the next train (about an hour behind us).

Sitting in a seat that you paid for should not be counted as rude...

Oh by the way.. doesn't purchasing a Business class ticket guarantee you a seat on the Surfliners?

 

[DivMiler]

I was responding to the first paragraph of the post that says these college students sat while two elderly women stood through 4 stops! Yes, these jerks had a perfect right to sit in seats that they had tickets for. However, the 88 and 86 year old women also had tickets. I just find it hard to believe that not one of those kids had the courtesy to give up their seat to an elderly woman!

Well then count me as a jerk as well... there was a lady with kids standing in the aisle next to me (the kids were old enough to stand on their own... she wasnt holding them.. and her husband was with her). I didn't offer her my seat. Of course.. the Conductors on my train were announcing that the train was standing room only, and if passenger boarding the train required a seat then they should wait for the next train (about an hour behind us).

It seems to me that TVRM610 is purposely ignoring the age of the two passengers. The lady with kids you mention was likely young enough to stand. I can only hope that when TVRM610 is in his eighties, he (and, somehow, I think it likely it is a he), will not mind standing in any situation, train or not, when youngsters who have paid for their seats ignore him standing there.

Trainmans daughter used the right word: courtesy.

 

[AAARGH!]

Trainmans daughter used the right word: courtesy.

I would also add:

Being considerate

Being civil

Being a good human being

Being unselfish

Being a mench (GML and some others should know what that means)

Being good

[Rant]

I could not conceive of anyone justifying not giving up their seats to these two ladies unless they were unable to stand themselves. There is no excuse.

[/Rant]

 

[MrFSS]

Trainmans daughter used the right word: courtesy.

I would also add:

Being considerate

Being civil

Being a good human being

Being unselfish

Being a mench (GML and some others should know what that means)

Being good

[Rant]

I could not conceive of anyone justifying not giving up their seats to these two ladies unless they were unable to stand themselves. There is no excuse.

[/Rant]

While I don't disagree with you, this whole story from the beginning has not been verified other than one guest saying what happened. We simply don't know the other side. How many times have we had one side of the story on the forums and come to many different conclusions without knowing the other side?

I'm not saying it didn't happen as posted, I'm saying it would be nice if we had both sides of the story, especially about the crew.

BlueJeanGirl - where are you when we need you??

 

[RRrich]

While I don't disagree with you, this whole story from the beginning has not been verified other than one guest saying what happened. We simply don't know the other side. How many times have we had one side of the story on the forums and come to many different conclusions without knowing the other side?

Typically I agree about two sides to every story, but the idea that some college age folks sat while two women in their 80s stood bothers me.

Wifey and I are Seniors and Wifey is "mobility impaired" uses a cane and often we travel in the H-room. If she had to stand while youngsters sat I would try to make the kids uncomfortable with loud talk of rude, unmannerly children who shame their parents with their selfish actions.

 

[sunchaser]

I think it shows terrible manners if you don't at least offer a seat to anyone, such as:

A woman or young lady, even if a husband is present

Any man or woman that would be old enough to be your Parent or Grandparent, Uncle or Aunt

Anyone that clearly should be sitting-disabled or even children

I would hate to see someone older, disabled, or a small child injured because of a sudden stop & when they could have been sitting.

I'm also one of those nut jobs that opens doors for people, assist carrying when I can, & let them go ahead of me in the shopping line when they just have a couple of items.

We taught our kids & grandkids the same stuff.

But there are plenty of others that do not bother.

When they get old, & they most certainly will, maybe they will think back about what they did when someone ignores them.

PS I'm a woman, not a man, it goes for both sexes!

 

[Ryan]

If she had to stand while youngsters sat I would try to make the kids uncomfortable with loud talk of rude, unmannerly children who shame their parents with their selfish actions.

Or you could simply ask someone to vacate their seat rather than shame your parents by having to be all rude about it. As someone squarely in the middle between college and seniordom, if I were to not notice someone in need of a seat right away, I'd certainly vacate the seat if asked. But if you're going to stand there and talk loudly about how rude I am, I'd enjoy my ride from my seat. You catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

 

[TVRM610]

I was responding to the first paragraph of the post that says these college students sat while two elderly women stood through 4 stops! Yes, these jerks had a perfect right to sit in seats that they had tickets for. However, the 88 and 86 year old women also had tickets. I just find it hard to believe that not one of those kids had the courtesy to give up their seat to an elderly woman!

Well then count me as a jerk as well... there was a lady with kids standing in the aisle next to me (the kids were old enough to stand on their own... she wasnt holding them.. and her husband was with her). I didn't offer her my seat. Of course.. the Conductors on my train were announcing that the train was standing room only, and if passenger boarding the train required a seat then they should wait for the next train (about an hour behind us).

It seems to me that TVRM610 is purposely ignoring the age of the two passengers. The lady with kids you mention was likely young enough to stand. I can only hope that when TVRM610 is in his eighties, he (and, somehow, I think it likely it is a he), will not mind standing in any situation, train or not, when youngsters who have paid for their seats ignore him standing there.

Trainmans daughter used the right word: courtesy.

I'm not purposely ignoring the age of any passengers... I will say that I acknowledge that the passengers were reported to be in their eighties. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by saying that it is likely that I am a he.. but yes I am a man.

I never said it would not be "courteous" to offer an elder a seat on a standing room only train... but I don't think that means a college student should be counted as a "jerk" for not. Also.. who was there to say that these 80 year old ladies were not standing around several other 80 year old ladies? The fact that there were lots of college kids on the train does not automatically mean that the two 80+ year old ladies (notice how I am acknowledging there age!) were standing in the middle of a group of college kids.

 

[MrFSS]

While I don't disagree with you, this whole story from the beginning has not been verified other than one guest saying what happened. We simply don't know the other side. How many times have we had one side of the story on the forums and come to many different conclusions without knowing the other side?

Typically I agree about two sides to every story, but the idea that some college age folks sat while two women in their 80s stood bothers me.

That's exactly my point - we don't know for sure, other than what one person, who is mad at Amtrak, didn't even understand the difference between reserved and un-reserved, says about it. We need the other side of the story. I personally don't believe it happened 100% the way we were told it happened, if indeed it even happened.

 

[AAARGH!]

I never said it would not be "courteous" to offer an elder a seat on a standing room only train... but I don't think that means a college student should be counted as a "jerk" for not.

I certainly do.

Also.. who was there to say that these 80 year old ladies were not standing around several other 80 year old ladies? The fact that there were lots of college kids on the train does not automatically mean that the two 80+ year old ladies (notice how I am acknowledging there age!) were standing in the middle of a group of college kids.

Based on the OPs description, I think it is unlikely (though certainly possible) that there was a group of 80+ year old ladies. As MrFSS said, we don't know for sure.

 

[sunchaser]

I never said it would not be "courteous" to offer an elder a seat on a standing room only train... but I don't think that means a college student should be counted as a "jerk" for not.

I certainly do.

Also.. who was there to say that these 80 year old ladies were not standing around several other 80 year old ladies? The fact that there were lots of college kids on the train does not automatically mean that the two 80+ year old ladies (notice how I am acknowledging there age!) were standing in the middle of a group of college kids.

Based on the OPs description, I think it is unlikely (though certainly possible) that there was a group of 80+ year old ladies. As MrFSS said, we don't know for sure.

Does it really matter how many elderly Ladies were standing when they should be sitting?

They also paid for a seat, didn't they?

My mother is in her eighties, & I certainly would not allow her to stand if I was there.

I would ask someone to allow her to sit, if I had no seat to give her.

I would do the same for a stranger.

I would hope whatever someone's age, they would be considerate of those around them.

Anyone can show by example how to treat those around us with respect & yes courtesy.

 

[AlanB]

Oh by the way.. doesn't purchasing a Business class ticket guarantee you a seat on the Surfliners?

Yes it does.

 

[TVRM610]

Oh by the way.. doesn't purchasing a Business class ticket guarantee you a seat on the Surfliners?

Yes it does.

Good to know...

second question, and even more to the point, isn't the lower level reserved for passengers who can not easily climb the stairs? It seems to me if there were college students (who had no disabilities) taking up the Lower Level seats... THAT would be a cause for complain. By climbing the stairs in the first place, you already have proved that you have decent mobility (I really do not mean that in a bad way, I'm just saying that as a fact, if you can climb the stairs of the surfliner cars, then your obviously not completely disabled).

I will say that perhaps the Conductors on the OP's train should have enforced the lower level seating a bit better, but I really have a hard time putting any blame on a passenger (young healthy college student or not) for sitting in a seat that they payed for. (I'm referring to the upper level seats, not the lower level seats if in fact they are marked for handicap/elderly passengers, which I think they are.)

 

[battalion51]

IIRC the lower level seats are supposed to have preference for the mobility impaired. So if there's no demand for the seat you are free to use it, but if there is someone who has limited mobility you're supposed to give it up on request. Same principle as the seats near the doors on the Subway in New York. If it's rush hour and the old folks already have the blue plate special in front of them, it's all yours.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I think it shows terrible manners if you don't at least offer a seat to anyone, such as:A woman or young lady, even if a husband is present

Sunchaser, I would never offer my seat to somebody just because they were female. That's just silly. Being a woman does not defacto make it harder to stand, and I object to juxtaposing equality and gallantry, which is what you're talking about. I'm not saying there aren't areas where even in an equal society, women have to be given different considerations. But sitting versus standing on the train is not among them!

I'd offer my seat to somebody, unequivocally, if there was a solid reason why their need to sit was greater than mine. But not because the fall into a different, but irrelevant, class to mine.

 

[sunchaser]

I think it shows terrible manners if you don't at least offer a seat to anyone, such as:A woman or young lady, even if a husband is present

Sunchaser, I would never offer my seat to somebody just because they were female. That's just silly. Being a woman does not defacto make it harder to stand, and I object to juxtaposing equality and gallantry, which is what you're talking about. I'm not saying there aren't areas where even in an equal society, women have to be given different considerations. But sitting versus standing on the train is not among them!

I'd offer my seat to somebody, unequivocally, if there was a solid reason why their need to sit was greater than mine. But not because the fall into a different, but irrelevant, class to mine.

I was not implying that as a woman it would be harder to stand, although, in some cases, that would be true.

I was saying it shows a lack of manners, & to me respect.

I also said that I let people go in front of me at the store.

I also would offer the seat to just about anybody, even you, & I know you are younger than me.

All of this fuss over a seat!

 

[Chris J.]

I think it shows terrible manners if you don't at least offer a seat to anyone, such as:A woman or young lady, even if a husband is present

Sunchaser, I would never offer my seat to somebody just because they were female. That's just silly. Being a woman does not defacto make it harder to stand, and I object to juxtaposing equality and gallantry, which is what you're talking about. I'm not saying there aren't areas where even in an equal society, women have to be given different considerations. But sitting versus standing on the train is not among them!

I'd offer my seat to somebody, unequivocally, if there was a solid reason why their need to sit was greater than mine. But not because the fall into a different, but irrelevant, class to mine.

I was not implying that as a woman it would be harder to stand, although, in some cases, that would be true.

I was saying it shows a lack of manners, & to me respect.

I also said that I let people go in front of me at the store.

I also would offer the seat to just about anybody, even you, & I know you are younger than me.

All of this fuss over a seat!

If we all did that we'd all be standing around empty seats - "please, take my seat" "no you sit in it" "no; i insist; YOU sit" "I'm fine standing" ..... and so on.

I don't see how sitting in a seat just because other people with no greater need are standing it is bad mannered. Barging through the car to get to the last free seat, not offering it to someone who is clearly in need, putting all your bags and coats on the seat next to you to try and stop other people sitting there.. that's a different matter.

 

[sunchaser]

I think it shows terrible manners if you don't at least offer a seat to anyone, such as:A woman or young lady, even if a husband is present

Sunchaser, I would never offer my seat to somebody just because they were female. That's just silly. Being a woman does not defacto make it harder to stand, and I object to juxtaposing equality and gallantry, which is what you're talking about. I'm not saying there aren't areas where even in an equal society, women have to be given different considerations. But sitting versus standing on the train is not among them!

I'd offer my seat to somebody, unequivocally, if there was a solid reason why their need to sit was greater than mine. But not because the fall into a different, but irrelevant, class to mine.

I was not implying that as a woman it would be harder to stand, although, in some cases, that would be true.

I was saying it shows a lack of manners, & to me respect.

I also said that I let people go in front of me at the store.

I also would offer the seat to just about anybody, even you, & I know you are younger than me.

All of this fuss over a seat!

If we all did that we'd all be standing around empty seats - "please, take my seat" "no you sit in it" "no; i insist; YOU sit" "I'm fine standing" ..... and so on.

I don't see how sitting in a seat just because other people with no greater need are standing it is bad mannered. Barging through the car to get to the last free seat, not offering it to someone who is clearly in need, putting all your bags and coats on the seat next to you to try and stop other people sitting there.. that's a different matter.

I doubt if you would have any empty seats.

Boy, it's amazing what kind of reaction I get for saying offer your seat to a woman. Would you not offer your seat to a girlfriend? What about your mother? A sister? Grandmother? Aunt? They are all women.

Putting the shoe on the other foot-how about your father, brother, grandfather, uncle?

I was referring to the poster who did not offer is seat to a woman with children, that were old enough to stand on their own, with the husband present.

As I said before, I would rather have children & women seated in case of sudden stops for safety.

So is it good manners to choose to ignore those around them unless it is obvious that someone 'has a need' to sit?

By just looking at someone, you can tell if they need to sit? What about those whose need may not be obvious?

I was talking about safety & courtesy, but it does not surprise me that people do not offer their seats to others, &

I do not expect someone to offer me a seat either.

I am surprised that this attitude is present here on this board!