What I like about the acela

[BLOND37]

New Haven is a college town.

But Back Bay is so close to the South Station, not even 2 minutes and the train is going at probably 10 mph.

also new haven is where train crews get changed

I believe the crews change in New York.

hmm i could swear it was NH

 

[the_traveler]

Under the old contracts, crews changed in NHV, because that's where they switched from electric to diesel locomotives. But AE has always had NYP as the crew change point. I think even the Regionals also change now at NYP, because you get new Conductors.

 

[railiner]

Back Bay is so close to the South Station, not even 2 minutes and the train is going at probably 10 mph.

As said, Back Bay has almost 400K riders! And it is near one of the main financial centers of Boston, and has a "T" stop right at BBY less than 100 feet from the Amtrak platform. And that "T" line has a direct connection to North Station (including the Downeaster and numerous MBTA lines).

It probably takes 20 minutes or so to WALK to South Station from Back Bay. 

The first high speed train in service between New York (Grand Central Terminal) and Boston was the TurboTrain. It terminated at Back Bay and then went to the yard, not even going to South Station. It ran the trip in three hours and fortyfive minutes.

 

[Anderson]

With respect to the three questioned stops: I can see Stamford to at least some extent. I can see either Boston Back Bay or Boston Route 128, probably the latter. What I can't see is both Back Bay and Route 128...Back Bay is so close into downtown Boston that it does confuse me, particularly w.r.t. the Acela. At least with Rt. 128, you can make a good case that it's close to half an hour out of downtown.

 

[NJCoastExp]

Under the old contracts, crews changed in NHV, because that's where they switched from electric to diesel locomotives. But AE has always had NYP as the crew change point. I think even the Regionals also change now at NYP, because you get new Conductors.

AE crews change in NYP

Regional crew change points are WAS(for those going south of WAS),NYP and NHV

 

[Ryan]

BBY is more convenient to a large part of Boston, and the stop doesn't really add anything to the run time of the train. Since you're still slowly working your way out of town at that point, there isn't the massive time penalty that you get from having to slow down and speed up from 100+ MPH.

 

[jis]

Under the old contracts, crews changed in NHV, because that's where they switched from electric to diesel locomotives. But AE has always had NYP as the crew change point. I think even the Regionals also change now at NYP, because you get new Conductors.

AE crews change in NYP

Regional crew change points are WAS(for those going south of WAS),NYP and NHV

For a NYP - BOS run it seems like such a waste to change crew again in NHV. Seems like it is begging for some action to make things more cost efficient, but of course I am sure there are Unions to arm-wrestle on that one.

 

[AlanB]

Under the old contracts, crews changed in NHV, because that's where they switched from electric to diesel locomotives. But AE has always had NYP as the crew change point. I think even the Regionals also change now at NYP, because you get new Conductors.

AE crews change in NYP

Regional crew change points are WAS(for those going south of WAS),NYP and NHV

For a NYP - BOS run it seems like such a waste to change crew again in NHV. Seems like it is begging for some action to make things more cost efficient, but of course I am sure there are Unions to arm-wrestle on that one.

That is precisely the issue Jishnu. With Acela Amtrak was able to demand that the new hires work BOS-NYP, but to date have been unable to get the contracts changed for the Regionals.

 

[jis]

Under the old contracts, crews changed in NHV, because that's where they switched from electric to diesel locomotives. But AE has always had NYP as the crew change point. I think even the Regionals also change now at NYP, because you get new Conductors.

AE crews change in NYP

Regional crew change points are WAS(for those going south of WAS),NYP and NHV

For a NYP - BOS run it seems like such a waste to change crew again in NHV. Seems like it is begging for some action to make things more cost efficient, but of course I am sure there are Unions to arm-wrestle on that one.

That is precisely the issue Jishnu. With Acela Amtrak was able to demand that the new hires work BOS-NYP, but to date have been unable to get the contracts changed for the Regionals.

Seems like a bit of latter day featherbedding going on there if you ask me

 

[PRR 60]

Seems like a bit of latter day featherbedding going on there if you ask me

I could be wrong, but I think the issue is the scheduled running time between NYP and BOS and the ability to use a single-person cab. The Acela is scheduled under 4 hours. The Regionals are scheduled over four hours. Four hours could be the magic time that, if exceeded, requires a two-person cab. That could be why an addition change is needed at NHV since Amtrak does not want to use two-person cabs on the NEC.

 

[jis]

Seems like a bit of latter day featherbedding going on there if you ask me

I could be wrong, but I think the issue is the scheduled running time between NYP and BOS and the ability to use a single-person cab. The Acela is scheduled under 4 hours. The Regionals are scheduled over four hours. Four hours could be the magic time that, if exceeded, requires a two-person cab. That could be why an addition change is needed at NHV since Amtrak does not want to use two-person cabs on the NEC.

So they could just change the engine crew and not the Conductors then? Or do you require more conductors to keep an eye on each other for greater than four hour runs too?

 

[the_traveler]

So they could just change the engine crew and not the Conductors then? Or do you require more conductors to keep an eye on each other for greater than four hour runs too?

I'm really not sure if they do actually change engine crews in NHV, since the average scheduled time is only 2 minutes! And I know the Conductors do not change, since I see the same ones before and after NHV!

 

[jis]

So they could just change the engine crew and not the Conductors then? Or do you require more conductors to keep an eye on each other for greater than four hour runs too?

I'm really not sure if they do actually change engine crews in NHV, since the average scheduled time is only 2 minutes! And I know the Conductors do not change, since I see the same ones before and after NHV!

It is possible that NHV remains a crew base for Connecticut Valley line trains only. I think that would make sense.

 

[BLOND37]

hi i dont mean to beat a dead horse.. and i dont want to be flamed or banned or have this thread locked but i still dont understand where the QC is on the acela... say it pulls into PVD.. first is the engine.. so where's the QC??

 

[Ryan]

Adjacent to the first class car.

 

[the_traveler]

There is an engine at each end of the AE. The Acela First will be next to one of these. (It could be in the front of the train or the rear of the train.) The QC is always next to Acela First.

 

[amamba]

With respect to the three questioned stops: I can see Stamford to at least some extent. I can see either Boston Back Bay or Boston Route 128, probably the latter. What I can't see is both Back Bay and Route 128...Back Bay is so close into downtown Boston that it does confuse me, particularly w.r.t. the Acela. At least with Rt. 128, you can make a good case that it's close to half an hour out of downtown.

Not sure if you are from the area, but Back Bay serves business people incredibly well. There are tons of people that work in that adjacent area (Prudential Center, Hancock tower, etc) so its easier for business for them to get on board at BBY rather than go all the way into the financial district to get on in South Station.

Back Bay is also a residential neighborhood (more so than South Station) for the early morning trains of people leaving to go to NYC for business that day.

 

[guest]

granted it is more pricey, and i didnt get to poke around and check it out to much but one thing i like about it is (no offense) it doesnt stop at every two bit town from PVD to NYP

Frankly, I wish Acela ran at least a LITTLE bit like an actual high-speed line. For example, don't stop between Boston and NYP, and don't stop between NYP and PHL (or maybe even WAS!!); of course, this isn't possible on EVERY trip, but a few "express" trips like this a day would be really appealing for a lot of people...

 

[AlanB]

Frankly, I wish Acela ran at least a LITTLE bit like an actual high-speed line. For example, don't stop between Boston and NYP, and don't stop between NYP and PHL (or maybe even WAS!!); of course, this isn't possible on EVERY trip, but a few "express" trips like this a day would be really appealing for a lot of people...

Amtrak has twice, several years apart, tried running a super express between NY & DC and back, with only one stop in Philly. Both times it failed for lack of ridership.

 

[PRR 60]

Frankly, I wish Acela ran at least a LITTLE bit like an actual high-speed line. For example, don't stop between Boston and NYP, and don't stop between NYP and PHL (or maybe even WAS!!); of course, this isn't possible on EVERY trip, but a few "express" trips like this a day would be really appealing for a lot of people...

Amtrak has twice, several years apart, tried running a super express between NY & DC and back, with only one stop in Philly. Both times it failed for lack of ridership.

You can go all the way back to the original Penn Central Metroliner. In 1969, PC ran one non-stop each way WAS-NYP. A 2hr 30min schedule. Poor ridership. It failed. Amtrak tried it again with the Metroliner in the late 1980's, also on a 2hr, 30 min schedule. Failed. Early in the Acela program, a non-stop was tried on a 2hr, 29min schedule (so it would be the "fastest trip ever" between NYP and WAS). As you said, that try, and another attempt several years later, failed.

What's the definition of insanity?

 

[jis]

granted it is more pricey, and i didnt get to poke around and check it out to much but one thing i like about it is (no offense) it doesnt stop at every two bit town from PVD to NYP

Frankly, I wish Acela ran at least a LITTLE bit like an actual high-speed line. For example, don't stop between Boston and NYP, and don't stop between NYP and PHL (or maybe even WAS!!); of course, this isn't possible on EVERY trip, but a few "express" trips like this a day would be really appealing for a lot of people...

And what makes you think that "actual" high speed lines run that way, specially when they are running on upgraded classical lines and not on newly constructed lines on separate ROW? All of them have a mix of express and stopping trains. Service on NEC is not frequent enough to achieve that, hence there are only stopping trains. Express service typically develops as demand for such develops. So far all attempts at express service has met with at best limited success, but mostly failure on the NEC. Typically service is run to fulfill demands of customers it serves, not just to run a service.

 

[guest]

granted it is more pricey, and i didnt get to poke around and check it out to much but one thing i like about it is (no offense) it doesnt stop at every two bit town from PVD to NYP

Frankly, I wish Acela ran at least a LITTLE bit like an actual high-speed line. For example, don't stop between Boston and NYP, and don't stop between NYP and PHL (or maybe even WAS!!); of course, this isn't possible on EVERY trip, but a few "express" trips like this a day would be really appealing for a lot of people...

And what makes you think that "actual" high speed lines run that way, specially when they are running on upgraded classical lines and not on newly constructed lines on separate ROW? All of them have a mix of express and stopping trains. Service on NEC is not frequent enough to achieve that, hence there are only stopping trains. Express service typically develops as demand for such develops. So far all attempts at express service has met with at best limited success, but mostly failure on the NEC. Typically service is run to fulfill demands of customers it serves, not just to run a service.

Well, having RIDDEN the high-speed lines in Spain, France, Germany, BeNeLux, Italy, and Switzerland, I can tell you that some lines are used for both "conventional" (which in Europe means up to 200kph) lines and proper high-speed trains up to 300 kph. France is the only one of those countries that varies significantly, in that MOST (but not all) of the high-speed dedicated lines radiate out from Paris. Trains can continue BEYOND the end of the dedicated portion (Tours, Vendenheim, Lyon/Marseille, etc.) at reduced speeds. If Acela could run making most station stops from, say, Boston to NYP, then nonstop from NYP to WAS (perhaps paired up with another set coming from an electrified/upgraded line from Albany?), I think there would be a LOT of public interest. It takes time, but when a rail system allows people to get "used to" the idea of something like this, it ultimately pays off in spades. That's why TGV actually PULLS A PROFIT!!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

They tried running 'Clocker' Acelas that did NYP-PHL-WAS runs, they weren't wildly successful compared to the regular runs today.

 

[eagle628]

They tried running 'Clocker' Acelas that did NYP-PHL-WAS runs, they weren't wildly successful compared to the regular runs today.

Yeah, those are gone now, I don't think they even lasted a year. They only saved 20 minutes or so, I think. The NYP-WAS segment is short enough that one-stop service doesn't save much time, and the Acelas run fast enough north of there it doesn't make sense to trim stops from there. Not even sure what you could trim, stamford, new haven, and providence are all to big to be cut, and since the trains are running slow enough near the suburban boston stops you'd only save a couple minutes by not stopping, not worth the revenue you lose. I think one train a day stops at new london, but I'm pretty sure that's all.

 

[Springdale]

I dont understand why Acela stops at Route 128 and Back Bay and Stamford.

stamford i can see (and the others) cuz they are "bedroom communities" to NYC and Boston

Stamford is more than just a bedroom community =p The 80s are long gone sadly

Time to put my two cents!

Stamford has more traffic than New Haven when it comes to Metro North passengers and it's the 3rd most busiest station in Metro North (First being Grand Central, Second White Plains). If you take the numbers on wikipedia's website of train passengers (Amtrak and MTA) you'll see Stamford has nearly the same trafic as New Haven (Combining MTA and Amtrak Passengers). I'm sure with the updated 2010 reports, Stamford would have many more passengers than New Haven Union Station.

Downtown is growing rapidly over the years and we have many business migrated from NYC to over here. Not only do we have some top business HQs in our city, but it the media industry has adopted Stamford. Not only is the WWE is located in Stamford, we also now have NBC hosting their top trash tv titles here :giggle: (Jerry Springer, Maury, and Steve Wilko). Rumors have it that Stamford will be surpassing New haven of population.