Virginia Governor proposes funds for Roanoke Extension

[The Davy Crockett]

While many details are still missing, here is my Delegate's (as in the Virginia House of Delegates) take on the agreement.

Interesting take on the agreement, but HOLY COW! What a breath of fresh air to have an elected representative that interacts with their constituents without just regurgitating some talking points and isn't afraid to say "I'm not sure, I'm still considering where I stand on this".

I knew I liked this guy!

He was on the local news tonight talking about his opposition to the $100 Hybrid tax.

Look what's behind him.

He's got a petition going to try and stop the hybrid tax you can sign if you're so inclined.

http://scottsurovell.blogspot.com/2013/02/veto-hybrid-tax.html

That is too funny! :excl: I wonder if the posters are his, or in his office. If so, I had no idea he was an Amtrak fan, but he seems to understand we can't just keep building highways to ever more sprawl spread out over ever greater distances and expect to be able to afford them.

I signed the petition. It has gotten 5,000 signatures in just 5 days.

THANKS! :hi: for a great laugh, Ryan!

 

[Ryan]

I signed as well.

It looked to me like the interview was done in his house.

 

[Dixie]

Bring it on ...
Anxiously awaiting passenger service in Bristol one of these decades ...

 

[Ryan]

Nice positive story in today's Roanoke times about the train coming to town...

http://www.roanoke.com/news/1901113-12/passenger-rail-effort-moving-forward.html

The fact that engineers and consultants are beginning the practical work of giving Roanoke its long-sought passenger train service has lent the project new realism. Unless there’s an unexpected glitch in funding the plan, “I don’t know anything that would hold it up now,” said Wayne Strickland, who directs the Roanoke Valley-Alleghany Regional Commission.
“Before it was a kind of a ‘maybe’ and ‘if we eventually get the funding, we’re going to do it,’ ” Strickland said.

Kevin Page, chief operating officer of the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation, the lead state agency, brought Roanoke region officials up to date on the project last week.

“Next Stop Roanoke!” read one slide in his presentation; another gave the date as “approx. 2016 - 2017.”

 

[afigg]

News update on the Roanoke extension: Governor McDonnell Announces Signed Agreement to Extend Amtrak Virginia Service to Roanoke (VA press release). McDonnell, who has only several days left in his term, may have rushed this to get the agreement signed with NS, which is not a bad thing because these studies and negotiations all too often drag on and on. Excerpts from the press release:

RICHMOND - Governor Bob McDonnell announced today that the Department of Rail and Public Transportation (DRPT) and Norfolk Southern Corporation have entered into an agreement to improve rail related infrastructure between Lynchburg and Roanoke. The improvements will allow passenger rail to once again serve the Roanoke Region. Governor McDonnell's 2013 transportation funding plan was instrumental in funding the return of intercity passenger rail service to Roanoke.

"DRPT and Norfolk Southern continue their strong partnership to advance intercity passenger rail service in the state of Virginia," said Governor McDonnell. "Intercity passenger rail service is central to the Commonwealth's economic growth, vitality and competitiveness in the region. Now the major population centers will have intercity passenger rail service.

...

Included in this agreement are track additions and realignments, signal and communication upgrades along the route, clearance adjustments, and a platform and train servicing facility in downtown Roanoke. Design work will begin immediately. In another effort funded by the Commonwealth and Norfolk Southern, the downtown Roanoke rail connections are currently being reconfigured to improve the flow of train traffic through Roanoke, which is a prerequisite to reintroducing passenger rail service.

I'll have to keep an eye out for a report or document detailing the track upgrades and the costs. Anyway, onward to Roanoke! (in 2017 give or take).

 

[afigg]

More information in the news reports on the Roanoke extension. Roanoke Times: 2017 set as target for passenger rail arrival in Roanoke. The target date is September, 2017, but it might be sooner. The cost is $92.7 million which, from reports I saw elsewhere, includes several projects to increase clearance on the other NS E-W line so some freight traffic can be shifted off of the Lynchburg-Roanoke tracks.

 

[nferr]

I also heard that they run busses from Lynchburg to Roanoke to connect to and from the Lynchburg train - and the buses are having high demand. So Roanoke is certainly doing their part to get real rail service.

Yup I took a trip down there in November from Bridgeport. One train from Bridgeport to Lynchburg and the bus waits for the train right outside the station. $4 for the bus and it took about an hour i think to get to Roanoke. Same thing on the return. And the busses were pretty full. And Roanoke is a great rail town. That restored passenger station is right at the NS train yard. Across the street from a big famous restored railroad hotel (forgot the name). And it's true there's enough space upstairs in the station for Amtrak use IMO. They did tear up the access to the tracks though.

 

[Anderson]

I also heard that they run busses from Lynchburg to Roanoke to connect to and from the Lynchburg train - and the buses are having high demand. So Roanoke is certainly doing their part to get real rail service.

Yup I took a trip down there in November from Bridgeport. One train from Bridgeport to Lynchburg and the bus waits for the train right outside the station. $4 for the bus and it took about an hour i think to get to Roanoke. Same thing on the return. And the busses were pretty full. And Roanoke is a great rail town. That restored passenger station is right at the NS train yard. Across the street from a big famous restored railroad hotel (forgot the name). And it's true there's enough space upstairs in the station for Amtrak use IMO. They did tear up the access to the tracks though.

It's the Roanoke Hotel, IIRC. From what I understand, bus traffic is somewhere around 10-12k/yr. It doesn't sound amazing, but it's not a trivial amount of ridership for a bus that comes and goes at very off hours.

 

[Sactobob]

The plan is to NOT use the old station building/museum, I believe mainly because of track configurations and conflict with freight movements. A new facility will be build further west and on the south side of the tracks next to downtown.

 

[Ryan]

I also heard that they run busses from Lynchburg to Roanoke to connect to and from the Lynchburg train - and the buses are having high demand. So Roanoke is certainly doing their part to get real rail service.

Yup I took a trip down there in November from Bridgeport. One train from Bridgeport to Lynchburg and the bus waits for the train right outside the station. $4 for the bus and it took about an hour i think to get to Roanoke. Same thing on the return. And the busses were pretty full. And Roanoke is a great rail town. That restored passenger station is right at the NS train yard. Across the street from a big famous restored railroad hotel (forgot the name). And it's true there's enough space upstairs in the station for Amtrak use IMO. They did tear up the access to the tracks though.

It's the Roanoke Hotel, IIRC. From what I understand, bus traffic is somewhere around 10-12k/yr. It doesn't sound amazing, but it's not a trivial amount of ridership for a bus that comes and goes at very off hours.

Close, it's the Hotel Roanoke - now owned by Virginia Tech.

 

[George]

http://www.rtands.com/index.php/freight/class-1/ns-virginia-agree-to-improve-infrastructure-for-the-return-of-roanoke-passenger-service.html?channel=Array&utm_source=WhatCounts+Publicaster+Edition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1.13.14&utm_content=NS%2c+Virginia+agree+to+improve+infrastructure+for+the+return+of+Roanoke+passenger+service

Or search: RT&S NS, Virginia agree to improve infrastructure for the return of Roanoke passenger service

 

[The Davy Crockett]

According to 'Trains' News Wire: The Roanoke serviice will be - at least to start with - one r/t daily, leaving Roanoke at 6:19 AM, arriving in WAS at 11:20 AM; and departing WAS at 4:50 PM, arriving Roanoke at 9:55 PM. I'd imagine the train will continue up, and down, the NEC.

 

[Ryan]

Not terrible.

It'll be a mighty early departure from VT to get up to Roanoke to get the train though.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

It'll be a mighty early departure from VT to get up to Roanoke to get the train though.

Won't the 'Techies' just stay up partying until the appointed hour? :giggle:

 

[Ryan]

That's a distinct possibility. h34r:

 

[afigg]

According to 'Trains' News Wire: The Roanoke serviice will be - at least to start with - one r/t daily, leaving Roanoke at 6:19 AM, arriving in WAS at 11:20 AM; and departing WAS at 4:50 PM, arriving Roanoke at 9:55 PM. I'd imagine the train will continue up, and down, the NEC.

Those times are extensions of the current weekday Lynchburg Regional train to Roanoke by adding 1:20 to the trip. #171 arrives LYH at 8:36 PM and thus Roanoke at 9:55 AM. #176 departs LYH at 7:38 AM, hence the 6:19 AM departure from Roanoke. Perhaps by the time Roanoke service starts, the trip times from Roanoke to WAS will be tightened up and they will be close to adding a second Regional to LYH with middle of the day departures which can be extended to Roanoke shortly afterwards.

 

[afigg]

With service being extended to Roanoke, the political leaders in Bristol and SW Virginia are making noises about service to Bristol by 2019. Roanoke Star article: Roanoke to Bristol Train?

Excerpt:

most know that by 2017 2016 if the Mayor has his way there will be Amtrak passenger train service between Roanoke and Lynchburg. Now Bristol and far southwest Virginia would like to get in on the action. Recently a contingent from that part of the state met with Mayor David Bowers and other Roanoke officials, looking for pointers on getting passenger train service extended to their towns and cities in a few years. Bristol city councilman Guy Odom, who was just ending his term as mayor, said the railroad tracks are in place; he projected that by 2019, if the financing and track clearances are obtained from Norfolk Southern, the train could connect to Bristol from Roanoke. What we hope to do is develop a strategy to get train service to Bristol. We saw the success that Roanoke had. The natural move would be to take passenger rail service into Bristol. They are planning to talk to people in Tennessee about extending rail service into that state and other points south.

Bristol city councilman Guy Odom, who was just ending his term as mayor, said the railroad tracks are in place; he projected that by 2019, if the financing and track clearances are obtained from Norfolk Southern, the train could connect to Bristol from Roanoke. What we hope to do is develop a strategy to get train service to Bristol. We saw the success that Roanoke had. The natural move would be to take passenger rail service into Bristol. They are planning to talk to people in Tennessee about extending rail service into that state and other points south.

Once passenger rail service gets into a robust expansion mode, never underestimate the power of keeping up with the neighbors, so to speak. Expand and improve service in VA and NC, then other parts of those states want in as well, then influential people in TN, GA, and perhaps even SC will ask why not in our states?

 

[Anderson]

The Bristol extension has a number of issues that aren't well appreciated. One is the fact that the area is rather thinly populated (once you get past Blacksburg/Christiansburg in VA, only Bristol VA/TN has more than 10,000 people, and it maxes out at around 40k; you've got more people in TN, but even the whole region taken together has less than 300k spread over a number of cities). The other is that, if I recall the old TDX study correctly, it takes like 4 hours to get from Roanoke to Bristol by train (even the best trains in the 50s were limited to about 3:30 from what I can tell)...which is well over drive time on I-81, yes, but which also starts getting operationally tricky (it gets up close to 10:00 Bristol-WAS and therefore 14:00 Bristol-NYP or 18:00 Bristol-BOS).

 

[jphjaxfl]

N&W-Southern still had 2 trains in each direction just prior to Amtrak in 1971. I was in college in the Louisville, My and made trips from Roanoke to Washington on those trains. They weren't fancy trains and often included TOFC cars, but were well patronized. The conductors ordered box meals at meal time. N&W joined Amtrak and discontinued the Bristol to Lynchburg portions of the trains.

 

[Anderson]

I knew the ex-Pelican had survived (Southern kept their segment until a few years after A-Day); I didn't realize there was a second train.

As to the survival of those trains:
(1) As far as Lynchburg, you didn't have an interstate or similar road (you still don't have one for a good portion of the route) heading north to Charlottesville and beyond.

(2) Beyond Lynchburg it is more complicated, but I looked up a map from 1970 or so, and found that neither I-66 nor I-64 actually connected between I-95 and I-81 (also, I-81 more or less terminated at the state line then).

(3) I suspect that runtimes prior to A-Day were still a bit better than they're expecting now.

(4) Finally, the trains all terminated in Washington. VA does not want to force train changes in Washington, since traffic to locations between NCR and NYP exceeds traffic to/from WAS. Losing 1/3 to 1/2 of that to a forced transfer is no bueno.

The flipside is that if you extend the present Lynchburger, you get a departure time from Bristol close to midnight, while I strongly suspect the second train is going to be "wedded" to a morning timetable as well due to business. Basically, a Bristol train has to either get into DC in the afternoon (and New York well into the evening), have an awful time for Bristol (likely defeating the point of the exercise if it is the only train), or run overnight (which can be done). Additionally, if you go past Bristol and into Tennessee (Knoxville/Chattanooga), overnight running becomes inevitable due to slow track (you're looking at an 1890s alignment down there if I'm not mistaken).

 

[jphjaxfl]

The trains I took the most connected wit The Pocahontas in Roanoke in mid morning. It must have left Bristol very early because that's where it originated. It arrived in Washington around 4:30pm. Returning it must have left Washington mid morning and again connected with the Pocahontas in Roanoke. The other train was the Bristol - Washington reminant of the Birmingham Special which up until 1969 connected in Roanoke with the Powhatan Arrow. The N&W trains in VA lasted much longer than SRR trains south of Bristol.

 

[Paulus]

What's so important about Bristol that it warrants an extension in the first place?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Well NASCAR has two races a year there (Bristol) that draw Large crowds! Perhaps trying out a "Special" like they are now running between SAC and Sonoma during the Race there would serve as a test for this Route? Otherwise there's no there there!

 

[Anderson]

What's so important about Bristol that it warrants an extension in the first place?

There are a lot of complicated factors at work here, but the biggest one is probably the fact that the whole southwest corner of the state is otherwise pretty cut off from the world, I-81 notwithstanding. You've got an airport, but flights only go two places (Atlanta and Charlotte) and can be exorbitantly expensive (as far as I can tell it is hard to find a round-trip out of Bristol for <$500). My understanding is that this isn't high on VA's priority list, but it might end up happening if the situation on the RF&P bogs down too much.

 

[CHamilton]

Passenger Rail in Roanoke still on track for 2017, city leaders hope earlier