MikefromCrete
Engineer
It's that human nature? I imagine if one of your clients decided to give you an extra wad of cash it would change your view of working for him.
Tipping for Service
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Texan Eagle
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Well, no. Because it would be unethical and straight up illegal.
I don't know where this notion comes that someone in a customer facing role will be nice to you only if you tip/bribe them with extra money. I have traveled on dozens of airlines and have had some amazing customer service from the cabin crew without anyone ever tipping or expecting tip to behave well. Same case with going to restaurants in Asia where the staff is paid living wage and tips are discouraged.
I get it we should be tipping the waiters/bartenders in restaurants because they get paid less than minimum wage and it is expected they make up with tips, but that is not the case with Amtrak staff. If they feel they should give good service only to those who tip them, they are in the wrong profession, but that's just my opinion, and I am in minority in this forum. So yeah, go ahead, tip them generously. Your money, your choice.
Maybe not as small as a minority as you'd think. I have tipped on occasion but felt funny giving a tip to someone with a pretty good job with good benefits that many other folks might be happy with.
I tip because I like to show appreciation for the service I receive. Not because I WANT good service. I should get that whether or not I tip. But, as I said, I like to show appreciation. I don't care what Amtrak staff makes; I'm positive it's more than I do.
Ryan
Court Jester
Name one person claiming that tipping is mandated by Amtrak.
Demonstrably false and logically impossible. If someone is new, there is no way that their car attendant is going to know if they are going to tip of not. Since tipping is usually done at the end of a trip, it's literally impossible for them to know if they should give good service or bad. Also, I've not tipped in the past (managed to get on the train without any cash), and had the same perfectly acceptable service from the LSAs for the whole trip.
At the end of the day, it remains completely voluntary and completely a personal decision. Raging about it on the internet isn't going to magically convince everyone to stop tipping, and even if it did, all tips going away isn't magically going to make OBS folks inclined to give poor service magically start giving good service. Want to do something that actually makes a difference? Tell Amtrak how your trips go, and give them data they can use to make the appropriate personnel decisions.
jis
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Where would AU be without its six monthly thread on tipping? 
The only thing that I find a bit strange are a few fervent pleas from a few on AU that one must consider tipping because their job is so hard. That IMHO is no reason to tip really. The reason to tip is (a) tradition and (b ) desire to show appreciation within the bounds set by (a).
If tradition dictates tipping as an acceptable practice and one desires to show appreciation that way, then one tips. At least I do not view tips as a substitute for outright bribing as some seem to think of it. But of course this is all IMHO.
The only thing that I find a bit strange are a few fervent pleas from a few on AU that one must consider tipping because their job is so hard. That IMHO is no reason to tip really. The reason to tip is (a) tradition and (b ) desire to show appreciation within the bounds set by (a).
If tradition dictates tipping as an acceptable practice and one desires to show appreciation that way, then one tips. At least I do not view tips as a substitute for outright bribing as some seem to think of it. But of course this is all IMHO.
To me, a tip is given after a service has been performed. A bribe is given before a service is performed in hopes of getting special treatment.Where would AU be without its six monthly thread on tipping?
The only thing that I find a bit strange are a few fervent pleas from a few on AU that one must consider tipping because their job is so hard. That IMHO is no reason to tip really. The reason to tip is (a) tradition and (b ) desire to show appreciation within the bounds set by (a).
If tradition dictates tipping as an acceptable practice and one desires to show appreciation that way, then one tips. At least I do not view tips as a substitute for outright bribing as some seem to think of it. But of course this is all IMHO.
Texan Eagle
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Scroll up in this (and 22 other tipping threads) and you will see some members saying how they "tip" the SCA at the start of the trip. Would that count as straight up bribe to get better service?
I'll go hide before the pitchforks are out to get me
h34r:
jis
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Also the business about tipping overly at the first meal hoping to be served better as a response to it down the line. That fits the definition of bribing as far as I can tell. It is better to call a spade a spade than prevaricating and obfuscating ( to use two impressive long words )
)
the_traveler
Engineer
Yes, I would consider giving the SCA $50 at the start of the trip a "bribe"!
How is that any different than slipping the matré de at the restaurant $50 to get "a better table", the usher at the show $50 to get "a better seat" or $50 to your bartender to "keep the drinks coming for your party"? :huh:
How is that any different than slipping the matré de at the restaurant $50 to get "a better table", the usher at the show $50 to get "a better seat" or $50 to your bartender to "keep the drinks coming for your party"? :huh:
Texan Eagle
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Bribe is a bad word, how about we take a word out of the book of political critters and call it "campaign donations"?
I am going to contribute $50 at the start of the trip as campaign donation to the OBS Staff. They will give bigly good service. It will be yuge! Tremendous! #MakeAmtrakGreatAgain
Cho Cho Charlie
Engineer
I am sure there are some here, who would never tip these servants, with the justification, that they are already getting paid to work. Matter of fact, I would think that $50 is a pretty light tip for a bartender who is providing good service for your party throughout the evening.
Why is that? Tradition? Or do you have some other justification for OBS employees getting tips, and operating crew not?
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I suppose because the T&E crew is running the train while the OBS is serving the customers.
Also T&E Crew make more than OBS, plus they only work 12 Hours Max,are guaranteed 8 Hours of rest and get to be home much more than LD OBS.
Triley
Real Lead Service Attendant
There is a big difference between doing a long haul flight of 18 hours (which remember, flight attendants are subject to hours of service as well, so they're not on duty that entire time), and working constantly for 18 hours on the train. Which by the way... long haul OBS certainly do not just work 18 hours and get a couple days off. Even the Acela crews that work a 17 hour round trip only get 1 day off, unless it's a weekend, which is 3 days. Long haul OBS could be onboard for up to a 6 day round trip. Even 448's crew is gone from home for 3 nights. How about the sleeper or coach attendants who have to get up at all hours of the night if they have a passenger detraining/boarding from/to their car(s)?
Would you want to be on the extra board, and have to be gone from home for 6 or 7 days (working up to 18 hours per day as an LSA, or potentially more as a coach/sleeper attendant), and only be guaranteed 48 hours of rest when you return to your crew base? Would tips help you feel more appreciated when you're feeling rundown?
I'm the last LSA you will ever see being tacky and only giving you good service if you tip, or waving money in your face as you detrain from First Class, but to argue against showing your thanks for a job well done because of our wages? I encourage you or anyone else to join the ranks for a couple of months and see how you feel afterwards. If you guys only had the slightest idea of how tough things can be. I've given these examples before, but I will do it again...
Two years ago during the worst winter on record, I signed up at 1pm for 66 and broken down at RTE and sat for 4 hours before we were rescued. Signed off at 1:30pm the following day. Yes, I was awake and on duty the whole time. To boot, I couldn't make it home because the snow cancelled my thruway bus.
The layover when we work train 71 to NFK is from roughly 12am to 4:30am (the time we check-in until we check out, so you're lucky to get 3 hours of sleep at best), and then we work back to Boston and arrive at 7:20pm (on Sundays 88 is crewed by NY so they have to wait for 67 and deadhead back to NY, finally going off duty at 2:30am, that's 22 hours on-duty on 3 hours of sleep).
A couple of weeks ago I was on a heavily delayed 66 (not the one that broke down outside of NY, but was stuck behind a disabled freight). After signing up for 66 at 1pm again, I finally went off duty at 12:15pm. With that delay, and working 67/66 trips back to back, I worked 90 hours in 8 days.
There have been numerous cases of LSAs being stuck working 7+ days straight during some pretty bad service disruptions on the corridor (188 for example.) One of my fellow Boston LSAs was stuck working 125 to NFK and 174 back (at the time 174 originated in NFK) to PHL, turning and taking it right back to NFK. On 125 we use to get to NFK at 8:40pm, and report for 174 at 3:15am. He was doing that particular turn for 5 days straight.
Still sure that we don't deserve the tips or wages that we are paid?
To keep this thread from getting further off-topic, I will go back to being a casual observer of this thread. Anyone who wants to discuss anything further, feel free to drop me a PM.
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jis
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I am sure y'all deserve the wages and benefits that y'all get. Not so sure about the tips if such is viewed as an entitlement for merely doing the job for which the wages and benefits are the contracted compensation.
FormerOBS
Conductor
Here are two stupid statements:
1. Every Amtrak employee performs flawlessly at all times and always gives the greatest service possible, no matter what the situation. They all deserve our highest gratitude and respect, and all the tips we can afford to give.
2. Every Amtrak employee is a lazy leech who has never done an honest day's work in his life, and never will. They deserve nothing but our disdain.
The two statements are equally idiotic, and the truth lies somewhere in between. Those who put others down are just holding a mirror up to themselves. The sensible thing is to look at each situation on its own terms and treat each other with honest respect.
Can we move on ---- please?
Tom
1. Every Amtrak employee performs flawlessly at all times and always gives the greatest service possible, no matter what the situation. They all deserve our highest gratitude and respect, and all the tips we can afford to give.
2. Every Amtrak employee is a lazy leech who has never done an honest day's work in his life, and never will. They deserve nothing but our disdain.
The two statements are equally idiotic, and the truth lies somewhere in between. Those who put others down are just holding a mirror up to themselves. The sensible thing is to look at each situation on its own terms and treat each other with honest respect.
Can we move on ---- please?
Tom
Maybe. But just for a few months. Then let's do this all over gain.
The voice of reason.
jis
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Since you keep making this point about wages and benefits in the context of tipping, I am now curious to learn what are the typical wages, benefits and overtime for OBS and T&E crew these days.
While at it, how do the OBS wages and benefits compare with those of Airline Cabin Crew - of mainline and regionals? Admittedly not apples to apples in this case since the airline cabin crew is primarily there for safety and secondarily for OBS, so they are more akin to a combination of T&E and OBS. But still ....
If we are going to throw around these claims let us at least get some facts on the table.
Thirdrail7
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If you desire, you should tip everyone and at all times. Make sure you tip the dispatchers while you're at it and the next time you see a track worker, throw a few bucks in their general direction if the train is going slow enough. They also appreciate water. Engineers are going to tape tip cups for "college of course" (Choo-Choo U) to their side view mirrors. They also appreciate coffee and increasingly, No-Doze.
ANTE UP!
Okay...I can appreciate that......
Except, that I have seen a few cases where the Conductor or Asst. Conductor, rendered outstanding personal service to passenger's way above and beyond what would be expected....
My best example was way back when Amtrak ran the overnight "Shenandoah" on the B&O route from Washington to Cincinnati....When we boarded the crew assigned us to either the long-haul coach, or the short haul coach. Since there were only about 25 of us in the long-haul coach, the conductor rotated every other seat pair, put up the legrests for us, so that we would each have a "bed" to sleep in...a lot of grunt work.....amazing! He also helped everyone put away their baggage, and was about the friendliest employee I have ever met. He thanked us profusely for riding his train, and begged us to please come back again and again....
Obviously he was making a heroic effort to prolong the life of this ill-fated train, to keep his job, but still amazing service...The Train Attendant distributed pillows, but otherwise stayed in his seat most of the time...
Do you think that conductor might have earned a tip? Guess what? He was offered one by me, but he refused it with a smile, stating that he was already paid for doing his job, but thanks, anyway.....amazing....
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
Bartending is one of the best uses of tipping I've ever seen. Tip moderately well and you'll get strong drinks. Tip really well and you'll get an extra round or two. Have the sweetest most attractive girl in your party hand over a $100 tip and you could be drinking for free all night long.
What part of the thread title did you not understand?
I've read something similar to Statement #1 dozens or perhaps even hundreds of times here on AU. I've yet to read Statement #2 even once.
Being fairly literate, I found "Tipping For Service" perfectly understandable. What part of my post did you not understand?
