Rail Stations: Grand or Functional

[RRUserious]

Took a trip down to the St Paul MN Union Depot which is being readied to resume its long-defunct operations. Parts of it look like the could be memorable. Back in that era, they thought a bit beyond what a rail station had to be. The lobby is something like two to three stories high, with glass skylights. Anyway, I realize I don't know many rail stations inside out. I got a chance to see Union Station in PDX last year. It was better than most transportation hubs I've seen over the years. Which isn't saying much.

One place that still impresses me is Union Station in Toronto. How planning allowed them to link short and long distance transportation in one facility. It would be an interesting thing to see where else in the world that happened. Paris? Berlin? Can you descend from Penn Station in New York into the subway system? I'm sure there are people here who have seen many of the world's big city rail stations.

 

[Blackwolf]

Railroad Passenger Terminals that I have had the honor of traveling through that seem to take the role of transportation hub are all North American. Off the top of my head, the ones that are most impressive from the top down are:

1. Chicago Union Station. Local commuter services and long-distance travel all in one location, minus the requirement to walk a couple blocks to connect to the 'El"
2. New York Pennsylvania Station. Everything seems to be all in one place. The only reason it comes in as #2 is because of the atrocious insult the station received as a result of the Madison Square Garden project. I think it is said best in this quote: "One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat." NYP is a hole of a station in terms of its grandeur, but it is the most important rail terminal on the entire continent.
3. Los Angeles Union Station. Here is a place where everything is really happening. The station is in the midst of its golden hour, having been long-relegated as an off site movie set for most of its history and a throw-back to a bygone era of passenger travel. But in the last decade, the place really has taken shape as a Union Station, where passenger numbers are soaring and its importance to the community (and really, to all of America's railroading public) is finally realized. When the pass-through tracks are done, and the HSR project comes to fruition, the West Coast will really have its anchor here for rail travel.
4. Seattle King Street Station. A diamond in the rough that is seeing the spotlight it deserves at last turned upon it. A place that was turned into your drab 'airline-style' terminal because all that intricate Victorian ornamentation was just too expensive to keep up. Cheaper to just hide it and put up acoustical tile. When the work is finished, this place will be one of the best-kept secrets in our national rail system. And its an important hub, for national and international rail travel.
5. Toronto Union Station.
   
6. Montreal Central Station.
7. Denver Union Station.
8. Portland Union Station.
9. Sacramento Valley Station.
10. Vancouver Pacific Central Station.

Edit: Had to clarify that these are stations that I have personally traveled through. I agree, WAS and PHL are two extremely important places! I've just never been to either one.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Many German stations are large and very cavernous. They are more modern than grand, though, but quite functional.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Seattle King Street Station. A diamond in the rough that is seeing the spotlight it deserves at last turned upon it.

What a poet we have here!

I agree that all of these are marvelous stations. I have been to Penn, Grand Central (which probably should have made the list), Pacific Central, Union (LAX), Union (Chicago), Union (Denver), Sacramento as well as King Street. All of these are marvelous and in my opinion, quite functional, with the exception of Denver and Vancouver. It is probably unfair to call them that though, because they obly have a few trains a day (soon to change for Denver!)

 

[Texan Eagle]

Railroad Passenger Terminals that I have had the honor of traveling through that seem to take the role of transportation hub are all North American. Off the top of my head, the ones that are most impressive from the top down are:

1. Chicago Union Station. Local commuter services and long-distance travel all in one location, minus the requirement to walk a couple blocks to connect to the 'El"
2. New York Pennsylvania Station. Everything seems to be all in one place. The only reason it comes in as #2 is because of the atrocious insult the station received as a result of the Madison Square Garden project. I think it is said best in this quote: "One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat." NYP is a hole of a station in terms of its grandeur, but it is the most important rail terminal on the entire continent.
3. Los Angeles Union Station. Here is a place where everything is really happening. The station is in the midst of its golden hour, having been long-relegated as an off site movie set for most of its history and a throw-back to a bygone era of passenger travel. But in the last decade, the place really has taken shape as a Union Station, where passenger numbers are soaring and its importance to the community (and really, to all of America's railroading public) is finally realized. When the pass-through tracks are done, and the HSR project comes to fruition, the West Coast will really have its anchor here for rail travel.
4. Seattle King Street Station. A diamond in the rough that is seeing the spotlight it deserves at last turned upon it. A place that was turned into your drab 'airline-style' terminal because all that intricate Victorian ornamentation was just too expensive to keep up. Cheaper to just hide it and put up acoustical tile. When the work is finished, this place will be one of the best-kept secrets in our national rail system. And its an important hub, for national and international rail travel.
5. Toronto Union Station.
   
6. Montreal Central Station.
7. Denver Union Station.
8. Portland Union Station.
9. Sacramento Valley Station.
10. Vancouver Pacific Central Station.

Philadelphia 30th Street Station gotta be there somewhere in that list. I would place it above NY Penn.

Washington Union Station is also missing.

One place that still impresses me is Union Station in Toronto. How planning allowed them to link short and long distance transportation in one facility. It would be an interesting thing to see where else in the world that happened.

I know at least one example. In India, Mumbai CST station accommodates suburban trains and long-distance express trains everything in one complex. Platforms 1 to 7 cater to suburban trains (on an average one train every three minutes all day long) while platforms 8 to 18 cater to close to a hundred long-distance express trains per day. Just outside the station building is a bus terminal too and hundreds of taxis wait at the station, so you can say this one facility has connection to everything. It also combines grandeur with functionality. The main station building is on UNESCO's list of World Heritage Sites while some of the newer platforms added recently are absolutely barebone as far as aesthetics go but they serve an important purpose of being able to accommodate longer 24 car trains which the older platforms built a century ago cannot handle. The suburban platforms of this station were used as backdrop for the song "Jai Ho" from Oscar winning Slumdog Millionaire. Here is a video of the said song shot inside the station after midnight once all the traffic has ended (see the clock display in the song!)

 

[The Journalist]

Washington Union or Grand Central is probably the nicest I've seen in America, though I haven't been to pretty much any station on the West Coast (oddly). I'll have to check out LAUPT, Portland Union, and King Street one of these days.

In my opinion the most impressive station I've seen is London's St. Pancras (I always want to write this as "St. Pancreas") International. Lovely old station from the street-it looks like a castle; modern, major hub and international station from the inside. It also is served by 6 different subway lines.

My home station falls under the banner of "old building that's seen better days but at least it's still a train station."

Edit: I can't count.

 

[RRUserious]

I just remember when I drove to the station in Everett Washington. Many different modes of transport up and down Puget Sound were combined there. Very nice integration. The only DRAWBACK is that when I got there, the parking was all taken. There was no place to put my rental car so that I could board one of the options to go into Seattle without the car. But I'm sure the regular users get good value out of getting there early and using a train or bus to get into Seattle without the headaches of I-5.

 

[TML]

In China, pretty much all passenger rail stations in the cities are "grand" buildings, whereas small "functional" stations exist only in the rural countryside areas. This is one of many reasons why I look forward to the opening of the new Moynihan station in NYC.

 

[RRUserious]

Maybe Chinese architecture is in a phase that corresponds to America's back when it was on the verge of world power. I think the architecture of the time in America fed on that consciousness.

 

[cirdan]

What I criticise about Chicago Union Station and some other places like it is that the front end is extremely monumental and very beautiful, but once you pass through the station and move towards the train it loses much of the monumentalism and is just a dark and not very well looked after area that is more like a warehouse than a station.

Some of my favorite stations are:

London Paddington, a truly monumental roof that lets in plenty of light and has such a spacious feel, lamost like a cathedral of old. It is aklso packed with history and if you explore you find plenty of details reminding of the past. Of course the station is also served by several Underground lines and soll also by the new Crossrail.

St Pancras also has its merits. maybe in terms of sheer architectural quality it should be considered unique. Sadly a lot ws lost in the recent refurb. I've also always considered it a bit too small to be truly grand.

In terms of a modern station with a lot of space, air and light, look at Berlin Hauptbahnhof.

In terms of something that outdoes them all in terms of monumental architecture, look at Milano Centrale. It's like a recretaion of the Pantheon of ancient Rome but on a scale that blows all comparisons. Despite parts of it being dirty and not well looked after, it has not lost a grain of its dignity.

 

[jis]

In my opinion the most impressive station I've seen is London's St. Pancras (I always want to write this as "St. Pancreas") International. Lovely old station from the street-it looks like a castle; modern, major hub and international station from the inside. It also is served by 6 different subway lines.

My home station falls under the banner of "old building that's seen better days but at least it's still a train station."

Edit: I can't count.

You mean Circle, Metropolitan, Northern, Piccadilly, Victoria and Hammersmith & City != 6? :blink:

I agree about St. Pancras. It's reconstruction has been absolutely spectacular done with great sensitivity towards preserving its basic architectural character.

Here is the interior of the main train shed and the exterior:

It is also one of the very few stations in the world which originates high speed commuter trains running at 150mph to the Southeast (Dover etc.).

The station of my birthplace, probably the busiest in India, is of course one of my favorites. It is Howrah Station in Kolkata. It has 23 platform tracks and serves two railways Eastern and South Eastern, with a massive suburban network on each. In addition it serves LD trains connecting Kolkata to every corner of India. It has the unique feature of having two cabways that allows cars to pull up adjacent to trains to convey passengers to them. It will soon get its own Metro station. It is functional and yet with a subdued beauty. Here are two pictures, headhouse and trackside (Howrah Bridge - the sixth longest Cantilever Bridge but probably the most heavily used one, in the world in the background):

 

[Trogdor]

Railroad Passenger Terminals that I have had the honor of traveling through that seem to take the role of transportation hub are all North American. Off the top of my head, the ones that are most impressive from the top down are:

1. Chicago Union Station. Local commuter services and long-distance travel all in one location, minus the requirement to walk a couple blocks to connect to the 'El"
2. New York Pennsylvania Station. Everything seems to be all in one place. The only reason it comes in as #2 is because of the atrocious insult the station received as a result of the Madison Square Garden project. I think it is said best in this quote: "One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat." NYP is a hole of a station in terms of its grandeur, but it is the most important rail terminal on the entire continent.
3. Los Angeles Union Station. Here is a place where everything is really happening. The station is in the midst of its golden hour, having been long-relegated as an off site movie set for most of its history and a throw-back to a bygone era of passenger travel. But in the last decade, the place really has taken shape as a Union Station, where passenger numbers are soaring and its importance to the community (and really, to all of America's railroading public) is finally realized. When the pass-through tracks are done, and the HSR project comes to fruition, the West Coast will really have its anchor here for rail travel.
4. Seattle King Street Station. A diamond in the rough that is seeing the spotlight it deserves at last turned upon it. A place that was turned into your drab 'airline-style' terminal because all that intricate Victorian ornamentation was just too expensive to keep up. Cheaper to just hide it and put up acoustical tile. When the work is finished, this place will be one of the best-kept secrets in our national rail system. And its an important hub, for national and international rail travel.
5. Toronto Union Station.
   
6. Montreal Central Station.
7. Denver Union Station.
8. Portland Union Station.
9. Sacramento Valley Station.
10. Vancouver Pacific Central Station.

Edit: Had to clarify that these are stations that I have personally traveled through. I agree, WAS and PHL are two extremely important places! I've just never been to either one.

Granted, it is a matter of personal opinion, but I cannot see how anyone would rank Chicago Union Station at the top of any list of good stations.

Besides being very difficult to find your way around the passenger concourse, unless you already know your way around, the signage is poor (both permanent and PIDS-type), it's crowded, and hasn't aged well. The Great Hall is nice (when it's open and not blocked off due to a special event, which is the case about every fourth day), but really useless as a passenger waiting area (the benches are only in place half the time, the other half they're stored in preparation for the aforementioned special events). As a commuter station, I guess it does fine because commuter passengers generally don't need to use any of the station's facilities other than the tracks themselves, and commuters use the station every day, so they know what they're doing. But as an intercity/long-distance station, it's barely functional. There are only three wheelchair accessible entrances in the entire building (which would also be helpful for folks who have lots of luggage and don't want to carry it up and down stairs). One of them was so hidden it took me a couple of years to learn it was even there, another is hidden well enough that most people wouldn't know where to find it. The Amtrak waiting areas are small and crowded. The food court is mediocre at best. Granted, you have Metra sharing the same station, but the fact that there is no CTA "L" (not 'El") connection is ridiculous. More arriving intercity passengers would have use for the CTA rail system than Metra, but they have to lug their bags several blocks to get to the L, and of course the two closest stations are both non-accessible and require people to lug their bags up or down stairs (granted, that's not a "Union Station" problem, per se, but it is still an issue).

The only good thing I can say about Union Station from a passenger perspective is that it still handles a lot of trains, which is more than one can say about half of the other stations on your list.

 

[Opiatephoto]

Once the remodel is done, Denver will be vastly improved. There will be Amtrak, light and heavy commuter rail, local, regional, and long distance bus service, all the way down to pedicabs. The rehab of the building should be nice as well. Plus there is some talk of converting from a stub station to a through one to make rail operations easier. I can't wait to see the project done.

 

[Ispolkom]

In terms of something that outdoes them all in terms of monumental architecture, look at Milano Centrale. It's like a recretaion of the Pantheon of ancient Rome but on a scale that blows all comparisons. Despite parts of it being dirty and not well looked after, it has not lost a grain of its dignity.

Milano Centrale works very well as a train station, but man, I have to disagree about its aesthetics. I thought that it was the second ugliest building I saw in Italy, after the monument to Vittorio Emanuele II in Rome. Both use lots of white marble, but are built to an oppressive, pompous scale. I think it's vastly inferior to Beaux Arts stations like Grand Central or Washington Union.

I have to agree with you about Chicago Union Station. It is almost as bad as New York Penn as a place to catch a train, and for the same reason: the concourse was torn down in the 60s.

 

[VentureForth]

Tokyo Station is huge. That's an understatement. It's 98% functional and 2% Grand. They are restoring the West entrance and when that's complete it should be nearly 5% Grand.

Most of the station is gated. That means that you have to have a ticket to get to the platforms where the trains are. From there, only the Shinkansen has a 2nd set of gates. But from the same station you have access to the subway, long distance trains, commuter trains, bullet trains, etc.

I had to walk almost 10 minutes from where I came into the station nearly 80 feet underground (technically B4) to the 2nd level above ground. And about a 1/4 mile horizontal walk. This was assisted by four escalators and three moving sidewalks.

Huge facility. From a utilitarian standpoint, it's more like NYP than anything European. Very functional. Just not very beautiful (except for the trains)!

 

[jis]

Huge facility. From a utilitarian standpoint, it's more like NYP than anything European. Very functional. Just not very beautiful (except for the trains)!

Same with Shinjuku which is about as large or possibly larger. I am not sure. But no Shinkansen there AFAIK.

 

[benjibear]

The old time grand stations made a statement. In the older days almost everybody that was coming into the city arrived by train.

I think Philadelphia has one of the grandest stations. There is not much to look at down on the platforms but when you come up the escalators it is so grand looking. The first time I arrived there it took my breath away to see the huge concorse with all the activities going on. It is one of the best stations to just sit and watch all the activities.

Alot of people like Washington Union Station. In my opinion, WAS is too mall like. I could go to a shopping mall 3 miles from house and it is almost the same feeling. I don't like this station very much.

New York Penn would be one that I would classify as functional. Nothing pretty to look at but it gets the job done.

 

[bay state bruce]

WAS needs to be on that list.The Metro lounge is an excellent place to spend time in while you wait for your connection.The building itself is beautiful both in and out.The subway is easy to get to. I agree that CHI is hard to navigate but the lounge for sleeper passengers is excellent once you find it.Also like what is going on at PDX and SEA.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Since this thread mentions both Grand and Functional Stations, Ill say that the current trend towards Intermodel Stations such as FTW and STL (even though the Great Old Union Station is a couple of blocks away!) aren't a bad idea, the architecture might not be Grand but definitely Modern,Clean and Functional!!(Ill limit my Post to North America!)

I'm Old enough and Lucky enough to have gotten to see and use the Grand Original Penn Station :wub: in New York before the MSG Abomination, :angry2: as well as GCT in its heyday! We're fortunate to still have the few remaining Grand Old Stations such as TWO/MTL/WAS/BOS/PHL/CHI/KCY/LAX/PDX/GCT that are still used as Rail Stations, and hopefully once MSP, Denver and Seattle are finished they can be added to the list! We definitely don't need to Close/Tear down anymore of our Grand Old Stations so they can be replaced with Amshaks and/or "Modern" Buildings!!

 

[zephyr17]

Railroad Passenger Terminals that I have had the honor of traveling through that seem to take the role of transportation hub are all North American. Off the top of my head, the ones that are most impressive from the top down are:

1. Chicago Union Station. Local commuter services and long-distance travel all in one location, minus the requirement to walk a couple blocks to connect to the 'El"
2. New York Pennsylvania Station. Everything seems to be all in one place. The only reason it comes in as #2 is because of the atrocious insult the station received as a result of the Madison Square Garden project. I think it is said best in this quote: "One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat." NYP is a hole of a station in terms of its grandeur, but it is the most important rail terminal on the entire continent.
3. Los Angeles Union Station. Here is a place where everything is really happening. The station is in the midst of its golden hour, having been long-relegated as an off site movie set for most of its history and a throw-back to a bygone era of passenger travel. But in the last decade, the place really has taken shape as a Union Station, where passenger numbers are soaring and its importance to the community (and really, to all of America's railroading public) is finally realized. When the pass-through tracks are done, and the HSR project comes to fruition, the West Coast will really have its anchor here for rail travel.
4. Seattle King Street Station. A diamond in the rough that is seeing the spotlight it deserves at last turned upon it. A place that was turned into your drab 'airline-style' terminal because all that intricate Victorian ornamentation was just too expensive to keep up. Cheaper to just hide it and put up acoustical tile. When the work is finished, this place will be one of the best-kept secrets in our national rail system. And its an important hub, for national and international rail travel.
5. Toronto Union Station.
   
6. Montreal Central Station.
7. Denver Union Station.
8. Portland Union Station.
9. Sacramento Valley Station.
10. Vancouver Pacific Central Station.

Edit: Had to clarify that these are stations that I have personally traveled through. I agree, WAS and PHL are two extremely important places! I've just never been to either one.

Granted, it is a matter of personal opinion, but I cannot see how anyone would rank Chicago Union Station at the top of any list of good stations.

Besides being very difficult to find your way around the passenger concourse, unless you already know your way around, the signage is poor (both permanent and PIDS-type), it's crowded, and hasn't aged well. The Great Hall is nice (when it's open and not blocked off due to a special event, which is the case about every fourth day), but really useless as a passenger waiting area (the benches are only in place half the time, the other half they're stored in preparation for the aforementioned special events). As a commuter station, I guess it does fine because commuter passengers generally don't need to use any of the station's facilities other than the tracks themselves, and commuters use the station every day, so they know what they're doing. But as an intercity/long-distance station, it's barely functional. There are only three wheelchair accessible entrances in the entire building (which would also be helpful for folks who have lots of luggage and don't want to carry it up and down stairs). One of them was so hidden it took me a couple of years to learn it was even there, another is hidden well enough that most people wouldn't know where to find it. The Amtrak waiting areas are small and crowded. The food court is mediocre at best. Granted, you have Metra sharing the same station, but the fact that there is no CTA "L" (not 'El") connection is ridiculous. More arriving intercity passengers would have use for the CTA rail system than Metra, but they have to lug their bags several blocks to get to the L, and of course the two closest stations are both non-accessible and require people to lug their bags up or down stairs (granted, that's not a "Union Station" problem, per se, but it is still an issue).

The only good thing I can say about Union Station from a passenger perspective is that it still handles a lot of trains, which is more than one can say about half of the other stations on your list.

Too bad they tore down the Concourse in 1970, which is the reason for the cramped facilities in the basement of an office building today. People complain about tearing down Penn Station, but forget about this because the head house was saved. It's almost as bad.

 

[The Journalist]

You mean Circle, Metropolitan, Northern, Piccadilly, Victoria and Hammersmith & City != 6? :blink:

I agree about St. Pancras. It's reconstruction has been absolutely spectacular done with great sensitivity towards preserving its basic architectural character.

I'd originally said 7.

Good pictures. Hard to believe those are the same building.

 

[RRUserious]

Gotta say, this thread is WAY more informative than any expectation I had. Guess I hit a rich vein of RR-station fandom.

 

[the_traveler]

I have to agree that NYG has to be in there (even through it is commuter only now)!

It is not called GRAND Central Terminal for no reason!

 

[jis]

Here are a few of GCT:

They are taken from this article.

Notice in the article that the original GCT had a huge trainshed sort of like St. Pancras, which was torn down when GCT was rebuilt.

 

[afigg]

I have to agree that NYG has to be in there (even through it is commuter only now)!

It is not called GRAND Central Terminal for no reason!

Grand Central may only have "commuter" trains now, but Metro-North does have a rather long reach and runs 7 days a week. When the East Side Access project is completed and LIRR runs to NYG, it will service 2 rather far-flung "commuter" systems. While the bulk of the traffic will be the Monday-Friday commuters, there will be people taking the trains for personal and business travel. Someone may get on the Hudson Line at Poughkeepsie to NYP, switch to LIRR and take the train to visit the family in Lindenhurst. May not be intercity travel on Amtrak, but a rather long trip that qualifies in many ways as intercity travel, just to different parts of a very large metropolitan region.

Grand Central certainly qualifies both as a "Grand" and a functional station. I recently caught the end of the early 90s movie Carlito's Way with Al Pacino on cable where there is a long chase scene taking place in Grand Central. The movie did have its technical inaccuracies as it had the Amtrak Silver Star departing from NYG to Tampa and Miami. <ahem>. The reason I bring it up is that it obvious that this was shot before the restoration of NYG. The main hall and corridors looked grimy, on the run-down side. NYG, like BOS, WAS and other stations have seen quite a revival from the late 1950s to 1970s era of deterioration with many stations closing. Another thing that was dated about the movie is the concept of a long chase scene with mobsters running through the station carrying handguns and a shootout. Try that today and the next thing that would happen to anyone openly carrying a gun would be facing armed NYC & Amtrak police, anti-terrorists squads, SWAT teams, police dogs in short order. Any shootout would not last very long and be very one-sided.