Late Empire builder (#8, #28)

[EB_OBS]

Yep, BNSF derailment 52 miles west of Whitefish, MT. Over 2200 ft of track and ties need to be replaced. Complicating matters is that the usual staff and contractors to handle such a situation are in Willitson, ND. Additionally, the only access to the area are backroads which aren't maintained well.

 

[AlanB]

Will be on #8 in a couple weeks and the the way it looks I better have a backup

plan for missing Wolverine 354 at 6pm . I dont want to be stuck on an AMVAN in the

middle of the night for a 5 hour trip! (happened last time!) Can you insist on a

hotel? If you have a reservation will Amtrak pay? Can anyone recomend a hotel close

to CUS ?

Thanks

Trainfan

No, you cannot insist on a hotel. It's Amtrak's option as to what they offer you. And if you refuse the offer, then other than providing you with a refund for your ticket, Amtrak's obligations to you end with your refusal to accept their offer.

 

[yarrow]

Here's some more evidence that the EB is cursed. From the Empire Builder Yahoo Group:

The tracks east of Williston opened today, but only one was opened by thismorning, so there is a bus bridge again today between Minot and Havre.

Westbound passengers are in for a special treat. After boarding train

8-which-becomes-train-7 in Havre, they will go only as far as Whitefish, where

they will board another bus to destination. Another grain train has derailed

just west of the west portal to Flathead Tunnel, between Whitefish and Libby.

It's going to be awhile before things get back in sync, if ever.

--Mark Meyer

the poor eb. thanks for the link to the eb group. looks interesting.

 

[anir dendroica]

That's three grain train derailments in three days on the BNSF/MRL in ND and Montana. Cold-weather pull-aparts perhaps?

Mark

 

[jmbgeg]

Yep, BNSF derailment 52 miles west of Whitefish, MT. Over 2200 ft of track and ties need to be replaced. Complicating matters is that the usual staff and contractors to handle such a situation are in Willitson, ND. Additionally, the only access to the area are backroads which aren't maintained well.

I am no expert in track maintenance but it amazes me that the closest repair crew for damaged tracks is in Williston, ND. Williston is 556 miles east of Whitefish which makes it 608 miles from the derailment. Spokane, WA is only 251 miles from Whitefish and 199 from the derailment; Havre is 254 from Whitefish and 306 from the derailment. Given the major rail operations in both those towns you have to believe they have track repair crews closer that Williston. I could obviously be wrong.

 

[tim49424]

Does anyone know how late the 8/28 EB needs to be running before Amtrak busitutes people from msp to chi?

I was scheduled to be on #8 a couple days before Christmas and the train was running 2-hours late and they did a bustitution. The same time frame was true a couple years previous. I board in TOH and I fully expect it to happen again when I ride the EB in a couple weeks.

Thanks for the info. I'm surprised they ran the bus for a delay of only 2 hours but I guess if people are expecting to transfer to a 6pm train leaving chi it would make sense.

When I was bussed from Tomah to Chicago, I was scheduled to catch the Pere Marquette into Michigan, which left at 5:20. The bus arrived at Union Station at 5:05.....not much time for me to catch my connecting train, but plenty of time for a 6 PM train. The first time I had to do the bus from TOH to CHI, we didn't arrive until after 6 PM due to weather. I was scheduled to catch the PM, but instead Amtrak put me up in a hotel, gave me $30 in cab fare and $30 in meal money. I used the meal money on a Greyhound ticket, being that it was Christmas Eve and I didn't care to miss the family festivities. Also, Amtrak refunded my PM ticket.

 

[anir dendroica]

Hulcher is the main contracting company that deals with derailments, using custom-built couterbalanced boom trucks to re-rail or move derailed cars. Their equipment bases are fairly far apart: http://www.hulcher.com/locations.html - and I imagine a major derailment might require equipment from more than one base. So it makes sense to me that they could be deployed in Williston at the moment thus taking longer to start cleanup in Whitefish.

 

[mwmnp]

That's three grain train derailments in three days on the BNSF/MRL in ND and Montana. Cold-weather pull-aparts perhaps?

Mark

I was wondering if the wild swing in temperatures seen over roughly the last couple of weeks in Williston had anything to do with the derailment in that area. Take a look at the highs and lows over the last 12 days:

DY MAX MIN

11 33 26

12 41 30

13 42 29

14 44 19

15 42 24

16 38 21

17 29 -1

18 1 -7

19 5 -3

20 1 -4

21 4 -17

22 25 -5

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Just came into Chicago from Portland on 28/8(20). Bustitution from Havre to Minot was rough. One of the buses broke down just after leaving Havre, and the U-Haul truck carrying the checked baggage got lost in Minot and drove all over town looking for the station. We got to the train in Minot last night about 10:20P, but waited there for 4 hours until the last busload of fellow bustitutes finally rolled in. Today went better but we held at 7 hours late all the way through to CUS. Sleeper pax had abbreviated dinner menu, and coach pax were offered a complimentary stew dinner. All connecting pax were put up in a hotel. I built an overnight into my plans and am falling back on that, much to my relief. All things considered, Amtrak did a fine job getting us through the situation out there. Heard there were 30 cars involved.

 

[GoldenSpike]

The Empire Builder has been running quite late both east and west for almost a week now. Some portions have even cancelled. How long might this continue? Why is it happening? What are the chances of an on-time (or at least not 7 hours late) trip on Friday, Feb. 11?

Yesterday I was due to make a trip TAC-SEA-MKE hoping to enjoy the winter scenery. Instead the trip turned into SN-A-FU.

A day before leaving a friend told me the EB 8 was ten hours late. Before setting out on a long drive to Tacoma, I called Amtrak to confirm

the train was running, let alone on time as I only had a 8-hour pad in MKE for another mode of transportation. No problem....#8 leaves Seattle at the regular time of 4:45 p.m..

After making the long drive to TAC, I learned #8 would leave SEA 3 hours late departing. No problem.

After boarding the (45-minute late) Talgo to SEA, another annoucement: #8 pax would be bussed to Spokane, then bussed to Whitefish, MT! By the time we arrived in Seattle it was near time for the busses to depart. They hustled me to a counter agent who couldn't guarantee the busses would even make it over the pass, let alone tell me when #8 would depart from Whitefish if they made it.

They held the bus up while trying to weigh my options. Trying to be nice the agent suggested I call Custormer Service for options. While stood there at the counter on terminal hold waiting to even get an rep to transfer me - once done then I'm told they only handle 'complaints', not 'options' yada, yada. I gave my cell phone to the agent to speak with them (which at first he wouldn't do) resulting in an exhange of 'words' between the two. By the time I got it back on the CS person on the phone told me the ticket agent didn't know what he was talking about.

I canceled the trip. I asked for and received a refund on my TAC-SEA ticket that I just completed. The agent personally went and collected the ticket the Conductor turned in. I asked for and received free passage back to TAC where my car was parked. The agent escorted me to the head of the long line for the 5:30 Talgo to Eugene to give them the pass.

Too late to handle the logistics of flying to MKE today, I do so in the morning arriving MKE about the time #8 would have arrive there.

 

[friendly45]

Hi,

I found on amtrak.com a service disruption for the EB eastbound Feb 23 and 24th. That is still consequences of the recent derailments?

 

[trainfan]

On the subject of late EB. If you arrive in Chi say at 2 or 3 AM (very late!) will you

be able to stay in Union Station to make an early morning connection?

Trainfan

 

[Ispolkom]

Just came into Chicago from Portland on 28/8(20). Bustitution from Havre to Minot was rough.

I'm sorry, but taking a bus from Havre to Minot in February isn't rough. It's much worse. I feel so bad for you. I would have been wailing and gnashing my teeth.

Having grown up in Minot, I can't imagine how the luggage truck got lost. The town is not that big and laid out on a grid, with numbered streets and avenues. As long as you don't expect the depot to be at the head of Main Street, where it belongs (the roundhouse was there, along with the Soo Line station), it can't be that hard.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Just came into Chicago from Portland on 28/8(20). Bustitution from Havre to Minot was rough.

I'm sorry, but taking a bus from Havre to Minot in February isn't rough. It's much worse. I feel so bad for you. I would have been wailing and gnashing my teeth.

Having grown up in Minot, I can't imagine how the luggage truck got lost. The town is not that big and laid out on a grid, with numbered streets and avenues. As long as you don't expect the depot to be at the head of Main Street, where it belongs (the roundhouse was there, along with the Soo Line station), it can't be that hard.

I must say that, after dark, we would drive for many, many miles with not so much as a light anywhere out there on the plains. And then I would finally see some lights and think to myself, thank goodness, that must be Minot. But it would turn out to be merely a ranch house, and this probably happened ten times or more. When we finally drove down the hill and could see the long line of Superliners, there was an audible cheer in our bus. I've never been so happy to see a Superliner in my life. As for the lost U-Haul, I think the driver was from Havre though I dunno why she would have left without directions if she didn't know Minot.

It's been a wild week. I've just returned home to LA after riding 5(23), which spent most of the day yesterday up in the Donner Pass area fighting its way through a fierce snowstorm. Lots to write about in the trip report I will work on soon.

 

[anir dendroica]

Hi,

I found on amtrak.com a service disruption for the EB eastbound Feb 23 and 24th. That is still consequences of the recent derailments?

These trains ran. #8(24) is currently 11:06 late out of Red Wing, MN, presumably delayed by severe cold and freight congestion around the derailment near Whitefish, which still has all trains routed on a siding.

Currently #7(26), #8(25), and #8(26) are showing service disruption status. This is likely due to winds reaching 70 mph and blizzard conditions on the east slope of Marias Pass.

From the EB Yahoo Group:

"Due to the blizzard conditions between Cut Bank and Summit, expect train 8-25

(and maybe 7-25) to be delayed for an undetermined amount of time. The line is

currently impassable due to the drifting, with the wind not expected to subside

until tonight.

--Mark Meyer"

Mark

 

[TraneMan]

Man, I feel really bad for these passenger who are on these train and the weather is holding them back. ;-(

 

[rtabern]

I'm hoping things improve by next week. I leave a week from today (3/5) for a 10-day, 9,000-mile Amtrak trip... and the first leg is CHI-PDX on #27. Been planning this trip since last summer... :angry:

 

[friendly45]

I wish to ride the Hi-Line during winter because I am looking for snowed landscape. I will travel next month (two and half weeks from now). I guess that will be the case.

But I need at least a moving train to enjoy the ride... :blink:

 

[yarrow]

weather, disabled freight disrupt amtrak

 

[Pladdy]

Where is the equipment for train 7 & 27 that was due into Seattle today?

 

[anir dendroica]

Info for those wanting to know...

From Amtrak:

"February 26, 2011

9:15 pm CST

As a result of high winds, blowing snow and a disabled BNSF Railway freight train blocking the tracks near Essex, Montana, Amtrak is making the following service adjustments on its Empire Builder trains originating on Saturday, February 26, 2011:

* Train 7/27 traveling from Chicago to Seattle/Portland will terminate in St. Paul.

* Trains 8/28 traveling from Seattle/Portland to Chicago are cancelled with no alternate transportation.

BNSF Railway Company has not yet provided an estimated time when the tracks will re-open.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates. "

From EB Yahoo Group:

"Train 8-25 went as far as Essex, then returned to Whitefish.

Train 7-25 is still holding at Havre.

Trains 7-26 and 8-26 annulled at St. Paul and Seattle respectively.

A BNSF train is still stuck in a giant snowdrift around Browning, so it being

freed and the railroad resetting will determine when the Empire Builder runs

through again.

--Mark Meyer"

From Trainorders list, user "Jaanfo"

"Figured I'd beat the inevitable "Why does 7(25) and 8(25) show a service disruption?"...

Due to severe weather and several outlawed freights stuck in the snow, train 7(25) is holding at Havre MT, and train 8(25) is holding at Whitefish MT. They are expected to hold at their locations up to 12 hours until everything is cleared.

Both Empire Builders originating on the 26th are cancelled."

From BNSF:

"02/26/2011

Extreme Winter Weather on Montana Division

BNSF service is being impacted due to a winter storm moving across the Montana Division of our network. High winds, drifting snow and sub zero temperatures have created 10-20 foot snow drifts in some areas and the weather conditions continue to deteriorate.

Customers may experience delays through this region over the next 24-48 hours and some traffic may be rerouted to alleviate train congestion. As information becomes available we will provide further communications."

 

[ThayerATM]

I'm hoping things improve by next week. I leave a week from today (3/5) for a 10-day, 9,000-mile Amtrak trip... and the first leg is CHI-PDX on #27. Been planning this trip since last summer... :angry:

I'm even beginning to sweat our trip in September. :lol: Going west on 49 & 5, then north on 14, everything appears "normal,"and normal really has to put in quotes. Getting home on 8 and 48 has been a miserable failure this winter. :help: :angry:

 

[Empire Builder Boy]

I hope this gets all worked out because I'm on #28 for my Chicago trip on the 17th.

 

[Neil Schiller]

Man, I feel really bad for these passenger who are on these train and the weather is holding them back. ;-(

We were on the 27 train that left Saturday 2/26 and terminated in St. Paul. Checked status for Sunday's train and decided to come back to Chicago. Glad we did. It looks like the weather might be like this until tomorrow, at least. Who knows how long it will take to clean up the mess.

Neil Schiller

 

[EB_OBS]

Man, I feel really bad for these passenger who are on these train and the weather is holding them back. ;-(

Who knows how long it will take to clean up the mess.

Neil Schiller

From what I understand, BNSF still has 51 freight trains they have to get moving on the Highline. They should be letting us know this afternoon what their status is.