i remember when......

[railiner]

I also remember once taking the San Diegan to SAN and calling the hotel for the "hotel limo" to pick us up. A strectch limousine came to pick us up! And it was not the Ritz, but a nothing hotel that just happened to have a. Limousine service based there!

That reminds me of one vacation I splurged on in the late '70's...took the train to White Sulphur Springs, W.Va., to stay at the C&O's lavish Greenbrier Resort Hotel. The depot is only a short distance from the front entrance to the hotel, but they had one of their Pullman Green Cadillac Fleetwood 75 Limo's pick me up, (and bring me back, later).

 

[guest]

I remember back back in 1990 when the River Cities from KCY to STL had a heritage coach right behind the engine that they would disconnect from the rest of the train in STL and send over to Carbondale, IL to meet up with the City Of News Orleans.

Also, I remember a trip that I took from KCY to MIA back in 1990. I was on my way back to KCY and I was taking Train 41, the Broadway Limited from PHL to CHI. I had a Slumbercoach, and I remember feeling like half of my body was in a coffin, since I was in one of the Lower rooms. I was 20 years old and there was a group of us younger "Yuppies" that were in the sleepers that got to know each other. We would hang out in the Smoking Lounge that was on one end of the heritage coach. There was one kid named Curt who was bragging that his dad was a big deal in Washington DC. It turns out, he was a son of a prominent Lawyer in DC. Well, by the time we got to Pittsburg we had been having a great conversation, and he said he had a layover when we got to Chicago. (He was on his way to Los Angeles). He asked 3 of us if we wanted to do something when we got to Chicago, and we said of course. He got off the train in Pittsburg, mad a phone call, and got back on. He wouldn't tell us what he did. Well, when we got to Chicago, I'll be damned, but he had called his dads office and he had a Limousine waiting for us to take us around Chicago for a few hours! We had lunch and had a great ride around town! That was probably my best train trip I had ever had!

Great story! Did you ever keep in touch with those guys?

 

[PaulM]

I remember back back in 1990 when the River Cities from KCY to STL had a heritage coach right behind the engine that they would disconnect from the rest of the train in STL and send over to Carbondale, IL to meet up with the City Of News Orleans.

When I rode that car (believe in the '80's) it was a dome coach....ran thru from Kansas City to New Orleans. It was a treat, but that locomotive horn was loud in the dome, and there are lots of crossings between STL and CDL.....

I also road that train going RT from STL to NOL. Thiis would have been earlier than your ride since the connection was in Centralia. In addition to the dome coach, there was a heritage sleeper, which must have been a unique Amtrak consist. I believe the River Cities came into being for the NO world's fair; and probably lasted another year.

 

[railiner]

You are correct....the River Cities used the Southern Railway from STL to Centralia. It was actually earlier, in the old IC pre-Amtrak days when IC St. Louis connecting trains used the IC rails from St. Louis to Duquoin....

 

[seat38a]

I remember when the CONO had Bourbon Pecan Pie to go with the Cajun Specialties served in the Diner, the Slumber Coach on the Crescent that allowed for sleeping in an Affordable Lay flat bed on the Overnight Trip from WAS to ATL and having a Southern Style Breakfast in the Diner that included Virginia Ham and Grits and Real Coffee served in a China Cup!

Also I remember the Dome Cars on various Routes and most of all when made Connections between On Time Trains were a Regulr feature of LD Travel on Amtrak!

Also riding on the Metroliners on the NEC between WAS and NYP in style when it was THE way to go over flying on the Eastern Shuttle! They were more comfortable than the New Acelas that replaced them!!

Ok, with all the searches I have done online, I'm still having trouble with the whole layout of the slumber coach cars. Were they staggered bi-level? I see one half the cars with the upper windows and the other half of the cars with the single level windows. What made them cheaper other than the lack of meals coming with the cost? From what I have seen, they look just like a roomette.

 

[Steve4031]

The bed in a slumbercoach was narrower. It did not cover the toilet. Rooms were smaller. I think the 2 configurations were 16-10 or 24-8. As in 16 Single rooms and 10 double rooms.

 

[the_traveler]

The single slumbercoach rooms were indeed staggered. 1/2 of the "lower" room was under the "upper" room. I only used a lower room, but I remember steps in the hall up to the upper rooms. I do remember the bed covering the toilet.

 

[George K]

Some things I found on the Slumbercoach.

http://www.srmduluth.org/Exhibits/SlumberCoaches.pdf

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/743/t/221869.aspx

 

[Big Iron]

I always preferred the lower room on the slumbercoach. You could open the footwell that housed half of the bed and get a chaise lounge effect. If my memory serves, there was less legroom in a slumbercoach that in an AF-I.

George K, thanks for the links

 

[FormerOBS]

I never rode in or worked a Slumbercoach, so I can't add much from personal experience. However, it is worthwhile to remember that a typical 10 roomette, 6 bedroom sleeper (the ubiquitous "10 & 6's") carried 22 berths. In the same amount of space, a Budd plan 9540 Slumbercoach had 24 single rooms plus 8 double rooms, which means it could sleep 40! Compare that with the 42 passenger berths in a typical Superliner sleeper.

Tom

 

[frequentflyer]

I remember my first Amtrak trip in 1984 on the Eagle. Back when Graham Claytor was Amtrak's president ( the best one ever, a railroad man), everything was a uniformed phase 3 striping. Arriving into Chicago Union and walking past the engines,the roar of the second F40 at full tilt handling HEP duties reverberating across the station, sound like a jet engine. Walking past the lead F40 unit as its strobe lights on top bouncing off the low ceiling and the headlight glowing brightly as if to say,"Yeah, we brought you here from Texas".

That trip was 30 years ago this year and yet I still remember every vivid detail.

 

[PaulM]

You are correct....the River Cities used the Southern Railway from STL to Centralia. It was actually earlier, in the old IC pre-Amtrak days when IC St. Louis connecting trains used the IC rails from St. Louis to Duquoin....

But at some point the connection was changed to Carbindale. The River Cities still used the Southern Railway line to Centralia; but then chased (or was chased by) the CoNO to Carbindale.

 

[jis]

I still wish we had not lost the Slumbercoaches and I wish they could be brought back, perhaps with common end of the car restrooms instead of the in room facilities.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[seat38a]

Some things I found on the Slumbercoach.

http://www.srmduluth.org/Exhibits/SlumberCoaches.pdf

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/743/t/221869.aspx

Thanks for that! That really helped me see how the setup used to be. Didn't understand how the double deck layout worked. So it looks like the corridor is single deck but there are steps up to the upper room. This layout is quite similar to the current international business class layout with the staggered seating so half of your legs goes under the console or seat of the person in front of you to achieve a full 180 recline. Funny how the railroads invented it but the airlines are just bringing the concept back.

 

[railiner]

That "duplex" or offset design was also employed in MU coaches used by the LIRR in the '40's and '50's....

Many mistakenly referred to them as 'double-decker's', but they had a single aisle with alternating seat pair's either a couple of steps up or down from the aisle. Utilized the height of the car to maximize seating. When the newer MU's came along, they employed a slightly wider (6") carbody, and used a 3 and 2 seat plan on a single level to achieve greater seating. .http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/doubledecker.htm

In addition to these, there were also some Pullman sleepers that had "duplex roomettes" or "duplex single rooms", whose beds were crosswise to the car.

I also loved the Slumbercoaches. I used to make two or three roundtrips each year between Chicago and New York in them. Also rode them from Denver to Chicago. Iliked the fact that you could use the toilet without having to raise the bed...only the padded cover.

I preferred the upper rooms. Felt less 'claustrophobic'. And the higher window afforded a slightly better view, as well as a bit more privacy at station stops. I really liked the 'secret' rooms in the 16-10 cars....These cars had four double rooms that were only fitted with a single bed. If you scored one of these, you got a large window, and as much space as a double room, but at a single price...

 

[George K]

there were also some Pullman sleepers that had "duplex roomettes" or "duplex single rooms", whose beds were crosswise to the car.

That's very interesting. Considering a standard coach is, what, 10 feet wide, and allowing for the thickness of the walls, etc, how much space would that allow for an aisle along one side of the car (like today's sleepers in the "bedroom" section)? I wonder if that kind of approach to the beds would give more space to sleeping spaces than the current longitudinal arrangement.

 

[railiner]

there were also some Pullman sleepers that had "duplex roomettes" or "duplex single rooms", whose beds were crosswise to the car.

That's very interesting. Considering a standard coach is, what, 10 feet wide, and allowing for the thickness of the walls, etc, how much space would that allow for an aisle along one side of the car (like today's sleepers in the "bedroom" section)? I wonder if that kind of approach to the beds would give more space to sleeping spaces than the current longitudinal arrangement.

The Duplex Roomettes were lengthwise, like the Slumbercoach rooms. The Duplex Single Rooms were crosswise....they were in a car with 11 Duplex Single Rooms and 4 Double Bedrooms....a rare Pullman type. The Single rooms extended the same width across the car as the Double Bedrooms, hence the aisle ran all the length of the car on one side.

 

[railiner]

You are correct....the River Cities used the Southern Railway from STL to Centralia. It was actually earlier, in the old IC pre-Amtrak days when IC St. Louis connecting trains used the IC rails from St. Louis to Duquoin....

But at some point the connection was changed to Carbindale. The River Cities still used the Southern Railway line to Centralia; but then chased (or was chased by) the CoNO to Carbindale.

I'm guessing that was done because of the service facilities and mechanical forces at Carbondale.....

 

[Larry H.]

This was long before AMTRAK, but I remember when you could see open air and the ties going by underneath the train when you flushed the toilet....there was a sign that said "Please do not flush toilet while at station"....any other old-timers remember that kind of thing? :giggle:

I remember in St. Louis when the elevated tracks still went in front of what is now the Gate Way Arch grounds, we used take the admiral sight seeing paddle wheel boat for excursions. On one of the walks down to the river front the snow cone seller was under the tracks an as a train passed someone flushed the toilet! I no longer wanted snow cones visiting the river front.

 

[Larry H.]

You are correct....the River Cities used the Southern Railway from STL to Centralia. It was actually earlier, in the old IC pre-Amtrak days when IC St. Louis connecting trains used the IC rails from St. Louis to Duquoin....

But at some point the connection was changed to Carbindale. The River Cities still used the Southern Railway line to Centralia; but then chased (or was chased by) the CoNO to Carbindale.

I'm guessing that was done because of the service facilities and mechanical forces at Carbondale.....

I rode both the carbondale section to st. louis in a pullman in the mid 60's and the river runner that extended to centraila and then south to Carbondale. I think the reasoning behind the car running to carbondale was they had a "Y" for turning the train there and service facilities for switching.

 

[Larry H.]

I have quite a few memories. My grand father and I used to take the GM&O to chicago leaving St. Louis early in the morning and the great breakfast they turned out to the very end. We rode the Parlor car which often was a fan tail car with a small lounge behind the single seating. The porter who's name I can't recall was super and shined everyones shoes before arriving in Chicago and brushed off all the passengers with a large brush departing the train. He also loaded and unloaded all the luggage himself.

I rode the Panama Limited when the Kings Dinner was still served in the Diner. When the train often hit 100 miles per hour. In fact leaving New Orleans in the Evening it was somewhat scary hearing the wheels jarring on the tracks during curves and seeing sparks flying off the rails.

I rode the Missouri Pacific to Kansas City for college in 61 when they still had a Omaha train that went though KC. It had a parlor car and dinner. It unfortunately was in a period when rail was dying an the train often ran 5 to 8 hours late! The milk run from St. Louis was often a way back to school leaving around midnight. It was terribly uncomfortable and sleep was nearly impossible in coach.

I took a train from New York City to St. Louis in 1961 right at christmas and the Penn station was full as well as the train. The ran cars with out reclining seats an the windows were frosted over the entire way. Wouldn't want to take that again. The food was so so and water in the cars was pretty much unavailable.

I rode the Walbash from Chicago to St. Louis and in Springfield they put a freight car on the back of our fan tail parlor car! The poor car was nearly worn out with the curtains hanging from only a couple hooks.

I made a trip on the UP's City of St. Louis in 1961 from St. Louis to San Francisco. It was a beautiful train, wonderful blue mohair sofas and single chairs in the first class lounge, a book case and desk furnished with post cards for those who wished to use them. The Mater'd ask if it would be alright to seat a young black fellow at my table. In I believe Las Vega's they added the City of Chicago to the consist which then made a very long train. It had a upper level dome dining room, the train was packed as it was near christmas. I will never forget when we wound down the mountains into the San Franciso area what looked like a large lake ended up being fog which we rode in unable to see more than a few feet out the windows till arrival in Oakland.

The year Amtrak came in to being we were onboard the original and delightful Empire Builder. It would put any amtrak version to shame. Wonderful etched glass panels in the dinner, the indian motifs painted in the lounges and snack car. It had five sleepers all of which were nearly empty. Evidently at that time they were telling people the train was sold out so as to claim no one wanted to ride any longer. We had just come across canada from Toronto into Vancover and were trying to make room reservations for the Empire building out of Seattle. The agent kept trying and they insisted there were no rooms available. The agent finally suggested we take the train down to Everet and wait for the Empire Builder to come though, asking the Conductor is there were any rooms we might have. When it pulled in as I mentioned almost no one was in the sleepers. We bought our room an the conductor took my Grandfather aboard while I waited with the fireman for the ticket agent to finish the trip tickets. As we stood at the counter the train began to pull out of the station. The fireman yelled that he was supposed to start the train which was leaving. Someway they finally relized they had left us behind and backed the train into the station to pick us up.. It was the finest and emptiest train I had ever ridden.

A day in to the trip they put up signs in the sleepers that train was being discontinued an the service would be continued by Amtrak.. What a fateful day that was.

 

[yarrow]

thanks for the memories, larry

 

[John]

First--Thanks to Yarrow for starting this thread.

Am 64, retired, have some time available and now find myself visiting AU on a regular basis to day dream and "maybe" some day. It was this thread that made me decide to go Amtrak from Memphis to Scottsdale next March. I did post in the general forum looking for suggestions, cautions, etc. on the options I am looking at and would appreciate your input.

In any event, almost 60 years ago I awoke to my mother giving me a nudge and and whispering to me "wake up Johnny, we are on a train and we are going to see grandma and grandpop". A few seconds later, she either threw up the shade or pulled back the curtain and I am looking at snow

out the window and on the ground as it passed by in silence. Mom later told me many years later that my first question(s) were "what's a train, and where's dad?".

We were living in the midwest at that time, dad did a lot of traveling 2-3 weeks at a time which was not that unusual for regional sales guys at the time back in the middle 50's. So, they decided a trip back to my mothers parents in Stamford, CT. was in order while he was out of town. Mom also confided to me many years later that dad was a very smart man to suggest that trip. Grandpop met us at the train station in New York, took us to lunch somewhere in New York, and then took us to see the Statue of Liberty. "Over the river and thru the woods (on a train no less) to grandmothers house we go"..... . My love affair with trains started on that trip.

Fast forward 35 years to me being a Branch Manager with the Northeast US as my territory. Drive or fly was the accepted, expected mode of travel. The memory of that overnight trip with my mom would come and go and one of the promises we make to ourselves I did make good on, several times in fact. First, Boston to Rochester, N.Y. in a sleeper, circa 1989. Pretty cool, getting off the train at 2-3 in the morning was not. Checked into the sleep-fast motel and the rep picked me up in the morning. I was not well rested but in a great mood. I had finally taken a train trip on my own.

This was followed by Boston--Baltimore when you could still get a sleeper from Boston on that route. I remember shaving being an interesting challenge. Then followed Washington to Chicago on the Capitol Limited, New York to Cleveland on the LSL. Chicago to Charlottsville I believe on the Cardinal. On that trip I remember the very gracious dining car attendant when I just showed up clueless and late just saying "honey--sit down--it's our pleasure to accomodate you". I also remember the rep meeting me in Charlottsville confessing to me that he had been on the phone with another branch manager in our company playing "guess where I am?" When he told that manager that he was at the train station waiting to meet my train--the response on the other end was simply, "that man is not right". Well, I was well rested and a happy camper, so it was right for me.

Moved on to another company and a better position as National Sales Manager so the responsibility and time pressures would often rule the day. However, did take a wonderful trip from Las Vegas To Seattle over a weekend on the Desert Wind, overnight in L.A. at the Otani Hotel, and boarded the Coast Starlight saturday morning en route to Seattle circa 1995. Just fabulous. It was in the fall and when I woke up in the morning in the mountains guess what I saw, snow silently passing by on the ground.

The first snowfall of the season according to the attendant. Also saw a herd of elk just standing and grazing trackside as we came down out of the mountains. The elk never moved or showed any sign of anxiety. It was a "holy cr.." moment for this Northeastern boy. It was also an "oh geez" moment for my boss at the time when he found out that I was taking the train from Las Vegas to Los Angeles to Seattle. When we looked at the alternative, fly back to Boston, lose a day, fly to Seattle, lose a day, etc..

Ultimately, he said I get it! Under the heading of small world....the rep I mentioned earlier in my post was one of my references for this job, he just said to my boss at the time, "quirky, somewhat old-fashioned but not as nutty as you may think, if you want him on the road that much, let him enjoy it!" And I did!

Took the auto train to Florida back in 2005 when I had to get there in a hurry to close on a house that the seller was antsy about. Didn't know how long an ordeal it was going to be so getting there from Massachusetts was a bit of a problem. Drove to New Jersey, overnight with my sister, following morning drove to Lorton, problem solved.

Also recall coming to a stop just short of the famous Horse Curve on the way west from Philly. Had a sleeper but had spent a good deal of time in the lounge chatting and taking in the sights, more in the lounge than out the window. Two very big construction guys were on their way to a new job site. They had started their trip a day earlier from somewhere in Florida. The half gallon of Vodka in the duffle bag was now on fumes only and everyones patience with them was on fumes also. The announcement said that their was a problem with one of the brake systems in one of the sleepers and we neeeded to stop to remedy it before going thru the curve and descending on the other side. Five minutes after we stopped, the remedy arrived. Two of the biggest men I had ever seen came into the the lounge car to escort the two big construction guys off the train. The construction guys looked like dwarfs by comparison. Lot of OK, yes sir, no sir, that suddenly appeared in their vocabulary.

"Not something that I wanted to do" said the conductor when I spoke to her later. These guys paid a lot of money and now they are going to spend a night in the slammer.

But, this is my train, my house and my responsibility is to ensure that all my guests are comfortable and happy to be here. Sometimes guests have to leave early........

(this I will always remember)........"calling them a cab was not an option".

So, here I am, 10 years later, retired and excited about planning another train trip. Do it, do it, do it!

Over the river and thru the woods, on a train.............make the time........while we can!

 

[zepherdude]

This was long before AMTRAK, but I remember when you could see open air and the ties going by underneath the train when you flushed the toilet....there was a sign that said "Please do not flush toilet while at station"....any other old-timers remember that kind of thing? :giggle:

I remember in St. Louis when the elevated tracks still went in front of what is now the Gate Way Arch grounds, we used take the admiral sight seeing paddle wheel boat for excursions. On one of the walks down to the river front the snow cone seller was under the tracks an as a train passed someone flushed the toilet! I no longer wanted snow cones visiting the river front.

Larry H. I am from St. Louis as well. My dad took me down to the riverfront and we would go under the elevated tracks in front of the Admiral with the lumbering trains passing overhead. The roads and levy were cobblestone and driving was ruff. Downtown STL Riverfront in those days were many old buildings and warehouses which seemed endless and depressing, maybe from the 1900s or earlier. I remember them as rambling and dark with no one on the streets or cars passing. The Eads Bridge with the big brick arches over the road and St. Louis Old Cathedral all sooty and black from time and smog were down there as well. He would take me to Union Station which I recall as very dark, sooty and needing paint and I could never understand what was being announced over the PA as the station seemed carnivorous. Of course train engine fumes were present. The Fred Harvey Restaurant, Terminal Hotel and a big mural on the wall. My Dad must have liked trains too, but I have no knowledge of that as he passed in 1964 and I have only small memories of him now. The Gateway Arch Project was started in the early 1960s and the elevated tracks, cobblestone streets, old buildings, junk boats and barges along the river front all began to fade into distant memories like these.

 

[railiner]

I have quite a few memories. My grand father and I used to take the GM&O to chicago leaving St. Louis early in the morning and the great breakfast they turned out to the very end. We rode the Parlor car which often was a fan tail car with a small lounge behind the single seating. The porter who's name I can't recall was super and shined everyones shoes before arriving in Chicago and brushed off all the passengers with a large brush departing the train. He also loaded and unloaded all the luggage himself.

I rode the Panama Limited when the Kings Dinner was still served in the Diner. When the train often hit 100 miles per hour. In fact leaving New Orleans in the Evening it was somewhat scary hearing the wheels jarring on the tracks during curves and seeing sparks flying off the rails.

I rode the Missouri Pacific to Kansas City for college in 61 when they still had a Omaha train that went though KC. It had a parlor car and dinner. It unfortunately was in a period when rail was dying an the train often ran 5 to 8 hours late! The milk run from St. Louis was often a way back to school leaving around midnight. It was terribly uncomfortable and sleep was nearly impossible in coach.

I took a train from New York City to St. Louis in 1961 right at christmas and the Penn station was full as well as the train. The ran cars with out reclining seats an the windows were frosted over the entire way. Wouldn't want to take that again. The food was so so and water in the cars was pretty much unavailable.

I rode the Walbash from Chicago to St. Louis and in Springfield they put a freight car on the back of our fan tail parlor car! The poor car was nearly worn out with the curtains hanging from only a couple hooks.

I made a trip on the UP's City of St. Louis in 1961 from St. Louis to San Francisco. It was a beautiful train, wonderful blue mohair sofas and single chairs in the first class lounge, a book case and desk furnished with post cards for those who wished to use them. The Mater'd ask if it would be alright to seat a young black fellow at my table. In I believe Las Vega's they added the City of Chicago to the consist which then made a very long train. It had a upper level dome dining room, the train was packed as it was near christmas. I will never forget when we wound down the mountains into the San Franciso area what looked like a large lake ended up being fog which we rode in unable to see more than a few feet out the windows till arrival in Oakland.

The year Amtrak came in to being we were onboard the original and delightful Empire Builder. It would put any amtrak version to shame. Wonderful etched glass panels in the dinner, the indian motifs painted in the lounges and snack car. It had five sleepers all of which were nearly empty. Evidently at that time they were telling people the train was sold out so as to claim no one wanted to ride any longer. We had just come across canada from Toronto into Vancover and were trying to make room reservations for the Empire building out of Seattle. The agent kept trying and they insisted there were no rooms available. The agent finally suggested we take the train down to Everet and wait for the Empire Builder to come though, asking the Conductor is there were any rooms we might have. When it pulled in as I mentioned almost no one was in the sleepers. We bought our room an the conductor took my Grandfather aboard while I waited with the fireman for the ticket agent to finish the trip tickets. As we stood at the counter the train began to pull out of the station. The fireman yelled that he was supposed to start the train which was leaving. Someway they finally relized they had left us behind and backed the train into the station to pick us up.. It was the finest and emptiest train I had ever ridden.

A day in to the trip they put up signs in the sleepers that train was being discontinued an the service would be continued by Amtrak.. What a fateful day that was.

Nice memories....thanks for sharing...

I must throw in one defense for my old fave, the PRR....

During times of extreme travel, like Christmas and Thanksgiving holiday's, while many other companies would reach capacity, and stop further sales, the PRR was famous for heroically attempting to accommodate all who wished to travel, and disappoint no one. To accomplish that, they would reach into their deep reserves of old or commuter equipment and while not up to the standards of the best trains, they at least got you there...truly "mass transportation"....