Hostile Dining Car Attendants

[railiner]

Wouldn't it be great for there to be an episode of "Undercover Boss" with guest star Richard Anderson?

That....would never happen.

First of all, Anderson would never do it.

Second, if if they did attempt it, the Amtrak "grapevine" would assure that every single employee affected, would know all about it, well in advance...

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Umm he did. He got rid of the Parlour Cars. Let's not let him get any more ideas!

 

[Manny T]

Amtrak doesn't provide a high quality of customer service for a simple reason:

Amtrak is not about providing high quality customer service.

That's what the IG found in his report (previously quoted). It bears repetition:

"...management has not consistently communicated the importance of providing high quality customer service through the ranks of customer-facing personnel or held them accountable for providing this level of service. Executives noted that, as a result, the workforce historically has not maintained a strong spirit—or culture—of customer service..." (p. 28)

In other words the IG found:

1. Management doesn't communicate the importance of high quality customer service (no expectation).

2. Management doesn't hold staff accountable for not providing high quality customer service (no consequences).

3. Net net the workforce historically has never maintained a spirit of high quality customer service (no performance).

Don't think it could be any clearer. It's not someone "having a bad day" or responding to tips or lack thereof.

Odd as it may sound, high quality customer service is not part of Amtrak's corporate culture. It leads me to conclude that the personnel who do provide it are doing so on their own initiative, probably for a variety of reasons (they're nice people, they like passengers, they wish to receive praise, commendations, tips). But the norm is not to provide it.

The real question is why passengers expect to receive high quality customer service on Amtrak. Beats me.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The real question is why passengers expect to receive high quality customer service on Amtrak. Beats me.

I was with you until the very last statement. I expect high quality customer service from the likes of Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Park Hyatt, Mandarin Oriental, Ritz-Carlton, etc. I'm not aware of anyone who expects such service from Amtrak. Not wanting instructions barked at us, not wanting to be ignored repeatedly, and not wanting to be snapped at over minor misunderstandings, is a far cry from expecting "high quality customer service."

 

[cpotisch]

The real question is why passengers expect to receive high quality customer service on Amtrak. Beats me.

^^What DA said. If you pay hundreds of dollars on travel that takes 10 times as long as flying, you expect good service. You don't even need spectacular service. Just decent customer service where you're treated like a real human being. This should be the case any time you give any company money. They owe you respect and human decency.

 

[Triley]

Just to negate the folks saying that no word gets passed along, let me assure you that it does. Every OBS Crew Base I've seen (BOS, NYP, WAS, and SEA - I somehow avoided CHI) has a peer-reviewed poster board with comments from passengers, both good and bad. Though names are generally redacted for nasty comments, they are heard about.

Also going forward, if you have an issue with an SA, SCA, TA, or LSA in the lounge, feel free to bring it to the LSA/Diner's attention. If someone on the crew gets in trouble, they can also get in trouble, because technically they are in charge of customer service issues regarding the OBS crew. If they do nothing, or the issue is regarding them, notify the conductor.

The same goes for great personnel, please pass on an email to customer service, so the employees who do a great job can get the praise they deserve! There's nothing better than knowing I/we made a difference in someone's travel plans, and made them have a great trip.

 

[Manny T]

I think I'm being slightly misunderstood. Sorry for the ambiguity when I wrote:

The real question is why passengers expect to receive high quality customer service on Amtrak. Beats me.

I meant, given Amtrak's corporate culture and lack of emphasis on providing high quality customer service, why expect it will be provided?

I didn't mean we, the passengers, aren't entitled to it or shouldn't receive it.

Quite the contrary, I agree with both of you, and I believe the IG's report was arguing for a change in corporate culture that would make customer service more of a priority, as it should be.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

I am curious, once again.

What about Amtrak's management culture gives them the freedom to *not be concerned* with customer service when the very nature of their business and livelihood depends on attracting customers and keeping their interest? Customers do have choices. And a lot of them are choosing to fly and/or drive, rather than take the train. Amtrak could go out of business quickly. What makes them think they can ignore how the customers feel?

 

[Skyline]

Wouldn't it be great for there to be an episode of "Undercover Boss" with guest star Richard Anderson?

That....would never happen.

First of all, Anderson would never do it.

Second, if if they did attempt it, the Amtrak "grapevine" would assure that every single employee affected, would know all about it, well in advance...

Agree. Not happening. Just indulging in some fantasy. And there is no reason to believe Anderson would participate. It is possible the rank-and-file would hear through the grapevine that Anderson was visiting a call center, commissary, or riding a train but how many even would recognize him -- in disguise or not? It's not as if he makes a habit of associating with those who work for him.

Again, indulging in pure fantasy, I can conjure up some great conversations that might take place during such anonymous encounters tho.

 

[Seaboard92]

I know several people who would like to have that conversation with him.

 

[Triley]

Wouldn't it be great for there to be an episode of "Undercover Boss" with guest star Richard Anderson?

That....would never happen. First of all, Anderson would never do it.

Second, if if they did attempt it, the Amtrak "grapevine" would assure that every single employee affected, would know all about it, well in advance...

Agree. Not happening. Just indulging in some fantasy. And there is no reason to believe Anderson would participate. It is possible the rank-and-file would hear through the grapevine that Anderson was visiting a call center, commissary, or riding a train but how many even would recognize him -- in disguise or not? It's not as if he makes a habit of associating with those who work for him.

Again, indulging in pure fantasy, I can conjure up some great conversations that might take place during such anonymous encounters tho.

It's the railroad. Believe me, word would get out.
When my class was training in DC, we had someone show up and quit at 11am. By 2pm we were getting on a train to go home for the weekend. The attendants, who didn't know anyone from the class, nor the guy who quit, already knew the news.

 

[railiner]

In my experience, whenever any "big-shot" was out riding the rails, the upper management made sure that everyone under their responsibility was tipped off, and fully prepared to insure that all went well.

So much for "undercover"...

 

[me_little_me]

Being accused of bad behaviour on a public website seems very one sided. We all know there are poor employees in every business, but do we not have bad days ourselves?

Would any of us feel it fair that our behaviour at work is being held up to public examination and comment without our knowledge, without us being able to put our side of the event on the record?

I don't wish to defend bad workers, but "telling tales" against them on AU, rather than reporting them, seems a bit childish to my way of thinking.

Ed.

I get what you're saying, and it is one of the reasons why didn't want to call Amtrak and tell them about this guy. Honestly, we felt like most people on the LSL (passengers and crew) were pretty curt and anti-social. I imagine having to work an AmCan pseudo-diner in the dead of winter on a train that serves Chicago and upstate New York, will probably make anyone cranky. Sometimes you've just got to suck it up and move on with your life.

Not when you are paying big bucks for poor service. A bad day is not a reason to take it out on your customers. Things will never change when people say nothing and continue to reward bad service with undeserved tips. It probably won't change anyway considering Amtrak's management but letting high level management know then letting those outside the company know MIGHT bring improvements.

I've even gone out of my way to tip an SCA from another car when he helped us with our bags and ignored our own SCA when she didn't.

 

[Sauve850]

My last two across country trips have been really bad as far as the dining attendants. They are so pushy and rude. They treat the passengers like kindergartners. It didn't use to be that way in the past.

Curious if you tried to resolve those situations while on those two trains or what happened.

 

[fulham]

Amtrak has had inconsistent customer service since its inception in May of 1971. As someone who has ridden its trains through the 70's, 80's, 90's and up to today, I feel I can state that quality customer service is something Amtrak has never been able to consistently deliver. But why?

This is just my OPINION. When Amtrak was founded, two of the primary hubs were (and continue to this day) to be New York and Chicago. At the time both locations were primarily operated by the Penn Central (PC). Penn Station and Sunnyside Yard in New York, and Union Station (partial owner) and 18th Street Yard in Chicago. As anyone who is old enough to remember, PC did not have a good reputation regarding passenger service (outside of the Metroliners). I have always felt that this "Penn Central" mentality made its way into Amtrak at the beginning, and every Amtrak administration up to today, has not been able to change it. Granted, there have been many other factors that have played into the way Amtrak is today, but I have always wondered if say the Santa Fe or SCL were the dominant carrier in Amtrak's founding, would we be having this conversation today? Please feel free to express your opinions.

 

[railiner]

Amtrak has had inconsistent customer service since its inception in May of 1971. As someone who has ridden its trains through the 70's, 80's, 90's and up to today, I feel I can state that quality customer service is something Amtrak has never been able to consistently deliver. But why?

This is just my OPINION. When Amtrak was founded, two of the primary hubs were (and continue to this day) to be New York and Chicago. At the time both locations were primarily operated by the Penn Central (PC). Penn Station and Sunnyside Yard in New York, and Union Station (partial owner) and 18th Street Yard in Chicago. As anyone who is old enough to remember, PC did not have a good reputation regarding passenger service (outside of the Metroliners). I have always felt that this "Penn Central" mentality made its way into Amtrak at the beginning, and every Amtrak administration up to today, has not been able to change it. Granted, there have been many other factors that have played into the way Amtrak is today, but I have always wondered if say the Santa Fe or SCL were the dominant carrier in Amtrak's founding, would we be having this conversation today? Please feel free to express your opinions.

There may well be some merit in your theory...that, and the fact that new hires felt that they were "government employees" and relatively "immune" in their position's, created "the culture that can not be cured..."

 

[neroden]

Corporate culture is hard to change, and surprisingly durable, and I agree that Amtrak largely inherited Penn Central culture. You can still see the different cultures in different *stations* in Amtrak's system, in fact. I'd even say that attitudes at stations which inherited NY Central culture (or New Haven culture) are better than attitudes at stations which inherited Pennsy culture! Which seems odd, given that NYC had the more passenger-hostile management immediately before the merger, but they had the more passenger-friendly corporate *culture*...

 

[Steve4031]

It used to be that crews working out of Los Angeles were considered good. But I’ve had a couple of poor scas on the coast starlight and one bad attendant in the ppc.

 

[railiner]

Corporate culture is hard to change, and surprisingly durable, and I agree that Amtrak largely inherited Penn Central culture. You can still see the different cultures in different *stations* in Amtrak's system, in fact. I'd even say that attitudes at stations which inherited NY Central culture (or New Haven culture) are better than attitudes at stations which inherited Pennsy culture! Which seems odd, given that NYC had the more passenger-hostile management immediately before the merger, but they had the more passenger-friendly corporate *culture*...

I'd have to respectfully disagree with this assessment of past corporate culture's....considering "The Commodore's" notorious: "The public be damned" quotation setting the NYC tone....

http://georgefsmith.blogspot.com/2006/12/public-be-damned.html

 

[MARC Rider]

Amtrak has had inconsistent customer service since its inception in May of 1971. As someone who has ridden its trains through the 70's, 80's, 90's and up to today, I feel I can state that quality customer service is something Amtrak has never been able to consistently deliver. But why?

This is just my OPINION. When Amtrak was founded, two of the primary hubs were (and continue to this day) to be New York and Chicago. At the time both locations were primarily operated by the Penn Central (PC). Penn Station and Sunnyside Yard in New York, and Union Station (partial owner) and 18th Street Yard in Chicago. As anyone who is old enough to remember, PC did not have a good reputation regarding passenger service (outside of the Metroliners). I have always felt that this "Penn Central" mentality made its way into Amtrak at the beginning, and every Amtrak administration up to today, has not been able to change it. Granted, there have been many other factors that have played into the way Amtrak is today, but I have always wondered if say the Santa Fe or SCL were the dominant carrier in Amtrak's founding, would we be having this conversation today? Please feel free to express your opinions.

There may well be some merit in your theory...that, and the fact that new hires felt that they were "government employees" and relatively "immune" in their position's, created "the culture that can not be cured..."

How do thse theories explain the fact thst we used to get perfectly good service from those same lazy unionized "government workers" who came from the Penn Central corporate culture?

Actually, I don't think Amtrak OBS is any worse than other service oriented industries. The real problem is staff cuts, and the wokers and their unions aren't responsible for that.

 

[cpotisch]

It used to be that crews working out of Los Angeles were considered good. But I’ve had a couple of poor scas on the coast starlight and one bad attendant in the ppc.

Why does it seem like the Starlight is notorious for having bad crews? It's not the only train crewed out of LA, right?

 

[zephyr17]

It used to be that crews working out of Los Angeles were considered good. But I’ve had a couple of poor scas on the coast starlight and one bad attendant in the ppc.

Why does it seem like the Starlight is notorious for having bad crews? It's not the only train crewed out of LA, right?

actually, my experience on the starlight is the crews are generally pretty good and i ride the train with some regularity. but, for some reason, the bad apples i've encountered on that train have been notably bad.

the southwest chief and sunset are also crewed out of la. the few times i've ridden the sunset it's had the friendliest crews i've ridden with, btw. overall i have a favorable impression of la based crews.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Amtrak has had inconsistent customer service since its inception in May of 1971. As someone who has ridden its trains through the 70's, 80's, 90's and up to today, I feel I can state that quality customer service is something Amtrak has never been able to consistently deliver. But why?

This is just my OPINION. When Amtrak was founded, two of the primary hubs were (and continue to this day) to be New York and Chicago. At the time both locations were primarily operated by the Penn Central (PC). Penn Station and Sunnyside Yard in New York, and Union Station (partial owner) and 18th Street Yard in Chicago. As anyone who is old enough to remember, PC did not have a good reputation regarding passenger service (outside of the Metroliners). I have always felt that this "Penn Central" mentality made its way into Amtrak at the beginning, and every Amtrak administration up to today, has not been able to change it. Granted, there have been many other factors that have played into the way Amtrak is today, but I have always wondered if say the Santa Fe or SCL were the dominant carrier in Amtrak's founding, would we be having this conversation today? Please feel free to express your opinions.

There may well be some merit in your theory...that, and the fact that new hires felt that they were "government employees" and relatively "immune" in their position's, created "the culture that can not be cured..."

How do thse theories explain the fact thst we used to get perfectly good service from those same lazy unionized "government workers" who came from the Penn Central corporate culture? Actually, I don't think Amtrak OBS is any worse than other service oriented industries. The real problem is staff cuts, and the wokers and their unions aren't responsible for that.

According to my family and friends Amtrak has the absolute worst travel related service outside of a bus station. Spirit, Airtran, and Frontier are probably worse than Amtrak, but they're mainly short haul flights of a few hours or less so it doesn't really matter as much. I always preferred the QuikTrak machine's microprocessed indifference to an Amtrak ticket clerk's casual hostility and that continues with today's electronic tickets. With regard to specific trains and stations I've had universally poor experiences on the CZ and at CUS/NYP. Other lines and stations have been both good and bad. In general terms I'm inclined to believe that union protections are a good thing, but I also believe that in many ways unions are legally saddled with counterproductive demands and expectations that undermine customer needs and union credibility alike. That being the case I'd support a more practical update to union charters rather than the aggravated attacks and wholesale dismantling which has become commonplace today.

 

[cpotisch]

It used to be that crews working out of Los Angeles were considered good. But I’ve had a couple of poor scas on the coast starlight and one bad attendant in the ppc.

Why does it seem like the Starlight is notorious for having bad crews? It's not the only train crewed out of LA, right?

actually, my experience on the starlight is the crews are generally pretty good and i ride the train with some regularity. but, for some reason, the bad apples i've encountered on that train have been notably bad.

the southwest chief and sunset are also crewed out of la. the few times i've ridden the sunset it's had the friendliest crews i've ridden with, btw. overall i have a favorable impression of la based crews.

Yeah, when I took the Sunset, the crew was absolutely phenomenal, and I've heard the same from almost every single person who's taken it. The crew made that ride significantly more enjoyable than my EMY-CHI CZ trip, and that's even taking into account the scenery disparity.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I've only ridden the sunset once, but I too had an amazing crew. I had thought it was NOL based crew (I was born in Louisiana so I'm partial to that state!).

Most of my trips on the zephyr have been good crews with the exception of one. And I agree it really puts a damper on an otherwise outstanding train as I love the zephyrs route.